Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mountain Man1 on May 23, 2019, 02:35:11 pm
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Anybody into the shorter bows? I knew a fella growing up that made a lot of Native style bows that were fairly short and he made sure I always had one in hand from age four until wheels and girls caught my eye😉. I've recently decided to make my own bows and get back into it. Here's the plan... I have a beautiful piece of maple (red I think) 58" long and about 2.5" wide. Even narrows in the middle right where I want the handle. Wondering what design would be good for 56-58" length with that wood to get a 50-55# pounder @ 26" draw?
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Red maple isn't the best so I think I'd keep the limbs wide and maybe bend in the handle or right up on to the fades.
Will you post a pic of the stave so we can see what you have to work with.
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I have no experience with maple or short bows myself, but if you want some short bow inspiration have a look through half eye's posts and be prepared to have your mind blown haha. plenty of maple shorties in there
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I’ve done a couple of short plains style bows from Sugar Maple (hard Maple). Red Maple is soft Maple. You can look up the posts on them. If I was doing one from a red Maple I would figure 20% wider than Hard Maple. That’s just an educated guess on my part, but that’s where I would start.
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Something Ish I inspired )P(
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Never had any luck with maple as a self bow. Always forms chrysals on the belly no matter how I tiller it. That is likely because I am limited to board wood and who knows the growth conditions on the trees the wood was harvested from. I'm sure hard maple from northern areas is nice and dense bow wood though as it has a pretty good reputation. Maple wouldn't be my first choice for a short bow of any kind regardless. I'd make a pyramid bow out of it. Can you source juniper/ERC? Backed with a few layers of sinew it is pretty much the best choice for a short bow. Regardless, put the maple to the test, just keep it wide as you can and as long as the stave will allow you.
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thanks for the replies, I'm hoping I can get 58" tip to tip but I'm planning for 56-57" in case it splits a bit on the ends as it dries. I will use as much as the wood will allow me too. I know rock (sugar) maple would be better but not a lot of it around, maybe 1 tree for every ten of red. I'm pretty much stuck with red maple or yellow birch for now. I was planning on a bend through handle of some sort and plan on going wide. Would a short pyramid bow at 57" be removing too much wood? Don't want a lot of weight at the tips but I want to make sure I have enough to spread the load. Still trying to figure out how to do pics... (f)
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Personally, I would go parallel out to mid limb or beyond just to maintain the width you need.
On the pics, I use Gimp, a free download that makes pic posting a snap. If you go that route, let me know and I will walk you thru the steps. Otherwise you can use an image hosting thingy. The pics need to be smaller than 200 kb,so they can be reduced in quality and size to do that. Gimp lets you choose what you want in both.
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Yes I agree,,,keeping parallel
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Alright gents I got some images uploaded to imgur. How do I get them on here?
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Click on the pic. An enlarged pic will come up with codes down the right side. For my laptop I clock the "BB Code", second from the bottom, them paste it on your message here. Smart phones might be different.
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Imgur froze up and I lost everything. In the meantime I've been considering backing this shortbow. Not up for sinew yet, seems fairly tedious but I've been considering rawhide. Seems simple and cheap/easy to get. Read about using the large dog chews, would that be too much weight for such short limbs? Don't want to kill my arrow speed.
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You'll have to thin the dog chew rawhide. IMO it's too thick. Deer or goat rawhide works best. I like to do it with 2 pieces and overlap at the handle.
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Ok I was thinking goat, i think i know where to get some. I've heard of guys using paper, any one have experience with that?
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Got pictures figured out so I will get some good shots tonight as I get it roughed out
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Alright so here it is 56" tip to tip, 2" to mid, 1/2" nocks, 7" tips. Handle is 3" with 2"fades. https://photos.app.goo.gl/N1UmR5DgbNpzof2S7
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Are you making it with a stiff handle?
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Planning to make the handle bend slightly.
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Mountain Man, I clicked on the link but couldn't see picture...
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I ask because you referenced fades. At 56 inches I would make it bend right thru the handle. You won’t need fades. Unless you are doing an Ishi type bow?
I couldn’t get to the pics either.
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Going 2" for limbed so I need to narrow for a handle so there will be fades, however the thickness will only change slightly. Still trying to pics sorted out, might need to higher a tech department for thathaha
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PM sent...Email the pics and I will be glad to post...
Don
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https://flic.kr/p/2g7rm6U
There, I think I finally got the pics figured. If it works I will add more
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https://flic.kr/p/2g7s8Pr
Good one here of limb profile. Hope it turns out for me. I really like the look of it
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That looks nice. I still question your handle. Is it a bendy, or are you glueing something on it?
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The intention is to have the handle flex a little bit but I'm going to watch it very closely when I start tillering, if its flexing a lot I will be adding a piece and go with a stiff handle for some added insurance. I think I've left it thick enough to be okay but i always like to have a backup plan.
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If that is red maple you will probably need a back up plan. Now if it is sugar maple then it will make a good bow.The soft maples are a poor choice for bow wood.Hope it works for you,but it will be a long shot if it is soft maple.
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That’s a tough act to pull off.
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So I've got the shape pretty much where I want and started getting the belly flat and even in prep for tillering. Am I correct in assuming backing should go on before tillering? If not I worry about it surviving the process. Is birch bark a good option? I have tons and think it would look awesome with minimal weight. It will either be that or dog chew rawhide.
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If it were me, and I have never done Birch Bark, but I have used other backings. I would get it tillered first before the backing. Get the brace tiller spot on perfect, then get it tillered out some distance your comfortable with, 15 inches or so, maybe even 20, and get the tiller looking good at that point. Then put your bb or rawhide on. I am assuming you are concerned it will snap without the backing if you go out to full draw?
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Yes that is exactly my concern. It has two small tears where I didn't see pin knots when scraping the bark off. Worried if I tiller too far I'll lose my bow before I ever get the backing on. My thought was tiller to brace or just a bit beyond, then back, then tiller to draw. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
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In the ideal world, we want to start with a pristine back. But I live in realville where that is not always possible. So... get it as close to perfect as you can at brace. Then pull it as far as your comfortable with and make sure it’s good. The less major work the better as you get further down the road.
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Ok thanks, sounds like a solid plan. I've been looking at backing ideas, are you familiar with the Meare Heath artifact? Instead of a solid layer it had a criss cross of rawhide with a few bands. Thought that may be a good option. Put the bands over my blemishes and then the webbing to help even the load and reduce strain. Would save a lot of weight vs a full covering of rawhide and looks pretty cool too.
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Gents, I have updates! I have the bow complete. May do some finish work to make her pretty but it is a fully functional bow. I came in under weight so I have a lovely little 25#@26" target bow. Perfect for tearing my finger tips off in the basement hahaha. Turns out I can do a nice tiller over my knee, but dont have a good feel for weight. Despite the weight issue I have learned a lot and have a beautiful sister stave that I think will be the same holmegard type profile, a bit longer. Hopefully that will give me 50# or so if I put it on the tiller earlier
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Glad to hear that...you finished it....you got the tiller right....you learned some things during the process....you enjoyed it. The first half dozen or more that I made, I tillered over my knee. No pics, no tiller stick or tree. Just a few buddies describing how badly it sucked, and a bathroom mirror. Few tips for the next one if you'll allow me. Coming in under weight is in my opinion a product of of somewhat blowing thru steps 3, 4 and 5 of 10. Steps 1 and 2 are the roughing out parts. 3 is floor tiller. 4 is brace profile and 5 is drawn profile to 15 inches or so. Assuming you have a sound stave and the right design....floor tiller is key. Get both limbs flexing 5 or 6 inches evenly. Check the thickness taper for it's evenness....then it will be pretty close at low brace. Obsess over that brace profile until it is near perfect. Now start pulling only a few inches on the stick or tree and checking the tiller for perfection before going any further. When that profile is real close at brace, it will be real close at 10 inches. When it's real close at 10 inches, it will be real close at 15 inches. You are now just fine tuning that puppy the rest of the way, 6 thru 10. Sure maybe you shot for 50 and it ends up at 48, but you wont end up at 25 lbs. Pictures, we need pictures or it didn't happen. :)
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Yeah it's mostly the floor tiller that's getting me. Think I'm too timid so not pushing hard enough. I get a beautifully even brace but already past my poundage. The sister stave is longer and I'm planning to check low brace earlier in the process. I like that knee better than the floor but again, not pulling hard enough.
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You will find that lots of folks have different methods of getting to the end product. I have all but quit using a long string opting instead to focus on the floor tiller. Leaning into the limb until I get it bending like I want and getting both limbs matched up well. Then I get it low braced. That allows me to get each limb shaped right and matched up with the other. I find it easier to do that with a string on it. Then I just gradually increase the brace height until it’s 6 inches or so keeping everything even. The payoff is early even tiller with plenty of wood to remove. More margin for error in my opinion.
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I don't use floor tillering as such. I made a long string with leather cups for the tips. I rough the bow out and it goes right on the tree. I do my "floor tillering" there. Always use a scale, never go past final draw weight. I can see the bend better on the tree than I can looking down my leg.
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DC I like the sound of that. I also need a better set up for my tiller, I'm using a luggage scale but to read it I have to squat down and look up at it. Quite a pain so I want to do a pulley set up