Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kviljo on September 08, 2007, 10:44:29 am
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Nearly finished my crossbow. The stock is oak, and the bow yew. Hoping to shoot it today ;D
I'll post some more pictures in a while.
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_483259_5588.jpg)
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Very, very nice early crossbow! You do great work. I hope you get some shots of it in action, and some specs.
Dane
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Puhh, just managed to string it! Holy crap that was a days workout! :D
I'll leave it strung like this for some hours, so the string can adjust itself, before I finish it. Looks like I got the stringheight spot on, on the first try. Luckily.
It is based on a Swedish crossbow which perhaps is from 1525, although this type has probably been used for many centurys in many places.
Now, I'll just have to make some bolts 8)
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484035_1619.jpg)
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484036_1961.jpg)
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484037_2276.jpg)
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484038_2633.jpg)
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484039_2951.jpg)
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That is cool. Are you going to serve the string with something a little more resistant to wear, or with the same material? What is the draw weight? Justin
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I'll let it settle in a little more, then I'll serve the linnen string with some more linnen, and wax it heavily at the center. I'm not too sure about the bow, because it seems quite heavy, and it's a bit hard to tiller such a short and slightly snaky bow. But I'll let you know the draw weight at its 12,5" drawlenght tonight, if it survives the fulldraw (which I should have tested before I tied it to the stock, hehe) :)
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Did you happen to take any pictures of the process of tying the bow to the stock or building the action. I am really fascinated with the whole process, and want to build an all natural crossbow. Justin
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Nope :-[
But there is no magic to it. Just start, and you'll figure out how along the way :)
Check Josef Alm 1947, Europeiska armborst (European crossbow) or the new english translation of it.
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very cool. always wondered how the trigger mechanism worked. i think i get it by the pics. peace
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Very cool. The craftsmanship is fantastic.
Mark
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Thanks :)
It's 90#, a little less than I thought, but it has much sapwood. Shot it once now, and it worked great. Scary little thing ;D
(http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_485244_5981.jpg)
(http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_485243_5555.jpg)
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I bet it is a little scary. What sort of distance or speed can you get with it?
Mark
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I started making it friday afternoon, so I haven't had the time to test it thoroughly yet. Hoping to try it out tomorrow if the weather is good. Looking forward to that! I'll have to make a flightarrow for it, hehe.
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wait, wait, so the string hops out of nthe groove and then toucjhes the arrow to shoot it? no knocks ??? that scares the crap out of me, but it looks like you did quite well very neat. i think if i made one the string would come up, slide under the arrow and it would somehow dry fire or shoot me in the face. ;D
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That is awesome. I didnt like crossbows until I saw this post. I never saw a primitive crossbow before. Well done. I will attempt it some day. May I ask how you came up with the design?
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That's right, no nocks. All medieval crossbowbolts lack nocks for the string. I have been told by a friend that these may flip the bolt around and hit the archer in the face if the string hits the bolt too low. So I'm going to be cautios ;)
I found a drawing of an artifact - a 15 c. Swedish original, and basically copyed that. :)
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that is one of the coolest things i have ever seen. one day i want to make one
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Very nice.
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I'd like to shoot that puppy!, looks like a nice job. I like the design.
VB
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Again, well done. Those bolts (cool little things) have tips you forged yourself, correct?
A book I recommend is "The Book of the Crossbow" by Ralph Payne-Gallwey, published by Dover. 0-486-28720-3, if you like crossbows. They show one early crossbow, similar to yours, but with a nut made presumable of bone. Still, a self crossbow, but maybe a bit safer? Meaning, the string would be positioned directly behind the bolt (having a bolt come at you would suck big time :) But, no more worries about what to make for dinner, I guess).
The illustration shows the guy spanning the weapon by standing with each foot on the bow by the stock. Is that how you draw yours?
Dane
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Thanks comrades :)
Yep, those are some of the bodkins I forged this summer.
That book is awesome Dane! I've only scrolled through it sometimes, and it seems to have a lot of good information in it. At least a lot of cool drawings 8)
I'm hoping to make a more conventional crossbow with a metal trigger and a nut, but I'll have to find myself a new forge first. Hoping to make that nut-protection-clip that holds the bolt in place too. Would be easier for flightshooting, and I bet a lot safer too :)
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Ivar, was editing my comments when you beat me to it. :)
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I've built one before but your trigger set up interestes me. Could you take a better pic showing how you conenected it to the front of the tiller(stock). ???
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Ahh, didn't notice that. That's the way I spanned it up untill today. I made a footstrap (in lack of a better word) in the little extra hole in the stock. J. Alm philosophized about that, but wasn't sure that it was for that, but it seems to work fine, and that way it won't be able to get in the way for the bolt, like it could have, if it was tied to the bow.
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I'm making progress on mine, I have the "nut" roughed out and I'm nearly ready to install it into the stock. Different design from this one, mine'll have a rotating nut.
Very fine job! You're right about bracing these bows, mine is only about 50 pounds, and it's a major pain to get it braced!
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Minuteman, It is as simple as you see it in this pic:
(http://photos-899.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v124/234/88/613131899/n613131899_484036_1961.jpg)
Which means that it could move sideways. I've tied it in place now. The original has a notch on the trigger so that it cant move sideways. Didn't notice that from the drawing before I was finished.
That's interesting to hear Bikewer! Got any pictures? I've wondered how you insert the nut in the stcok. Do you "laminate" it in, or just dig a hole for it in the one-piece stock?
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I've wondered how you insert the nut in the stcok. Do you "laminate" it in, or just dig a hole for it in the one-piece stock?
There's a very detailed how-to for building a 13./14. century crossbow made by a reenactment-group called "Berwelf". The how-to is plain german, but the pictures are very good and I think you guys will figure out alot even without understanding the text ;).
The instruction is a pdf, you can dl it here (http://www.berwelf.de/bauanleitungen/armbrust/armbrustbau.pdf) if you like. I attach some pictures of the nut and it's well for you to see meanwhile.
I hope this helps,
Heiner
P.S.: I'll gladly translate parts of the text, but I'd like to keep it "on demand" and just when you guys need it.
P.P.S.: Berwelf reenacts medieval Berlin around 1300. You can visit the homepage here: http://www.berwelf.de/ . It's well worth a visit...
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That's very helpful Heiner! My german is a bit rusty, but ich verstehe ein bisschen ;D
That picture of the hornbow braced the wrong way is just terrifying to look at :o
Just compiled a little video by the way:
http://www.kviljo.no/bue/lasbue.wmv
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Heiner, very nice site and how-to document, pretty easy to follow, even with my very limited German. The site was very cool, as well.
And Ivar, that video was fun! Those bolts hit with authority! The slow-mo sections were neat, with accompanying sound. By the way, the book we were talking about before has nice illustrations of the nut and all the other components.
Dane
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how long is the prod? I tried making some and found difficult to make it safe unless draw length is about third of the whole length, even in light weight. hard to tiller too. The best I managed is 23" long prod with 45# at 8"
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want to make me one?
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It is about 40" long :)
No problem David, all we need is a good pri.. eh, trade ;)
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i know a tree trimmer he said he cuts down tons of mulbery and some osage. he said if he found some good peices of osage he would give them to me and i can get alot of mulbery.
so hows possibly mulbery and osage sometime? :)
the only thing is shipping overseas could be espensive.
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Yep, that's the largest barrier :-\
But I'm sure you would be able to make one of these yourself. All it takes is some time and materials :)
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expensive materials. unless i cut it i couldny afford yew
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I've had a peice of wood sitting in my "make stuff out of me" pile for a couple weeks, oak i think. When I saw this, I decided to give a go at trying to make a simple crossbow like yours. The stock for mine is going to be a single piece of wood though since when I held it up it feels to be just about perfect for making a "cave-crossbow". It probably won't be so great, but I'm willing to give it a go since kviljo has shown us such a simple to implement design. I might put in a small guard a couple inches long over the place where the bolt is caught by the string to prevent nasty flyback though.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2381/1509860801_49ee2c045e_b.jpg)
That's the body of it trimmed up with the top of it rasped flat. It's just roughed out at the moment and shown here with a prop bow I made for a Robin Hood halloween costume a couple years ago. I guess I should start a build along thread for it?
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Kviljo, that looks like my version of the same. Skane crossbow is somehow less refined that either yours or mine.
(http://curiavitkov.cz/images/zivot/kusehawk.jpg)
Altough I think they can be made with longer drawlenght
(http://curiavitkov.cz/images/zivot/kuse-krecek1.jpg)
Jaro
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Hehey, that looks pretty much the same as my Lilløhus-version.
So there's one more or less complete crossbow from Skåne too?
Don't think I would risk making mine with a longer draw, because the bow has followed the string quite considerably. But a longer, weaker or sinewbacked bow would of course do the trick.
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The idea is to have the prod wide, then it can be made shorter.2´´ wide is about what I used. They arent nearly as much stressed as they look like. This was made two years ago.
I made one with a roller nut recently.
(http://sweb.cz/hawkwind/crossbow2.JPG)
(http://sweb.cz/hawkwind/crossbow4.JPG)
Jaro
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(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/wolfsirebella/bow002.jpg)
Havent finished the trigger on the small one.
The larger has a pin/bolt with spring trigger. Barrel is about half inch. Poundage is 45 to about 55 lbs when the cordage is tight. Powerstroke was 22 inches, but the string has streatched. Max range texted with AA batteries at about 50 yards. Been playing with making bolts out of dry cleaner hangars, paper tubes and wire. Finally got some wood.
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Is that a joke?
J.
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macguyver has apparently found a unicorn to get parts from. Everyone knows unicorns have dayglo sinews. :o An interesting design, but I think you're gonna make some people on the forum gnash their teeth with that crossbow being so non-primitive Wolfsire. ;D :P
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Sorry, my bad. It was not a joke. I apparantly misunderstood the purpose of having a forum for "primitive" archery. I though it was about using the resouces available and managable low level technology. I supposed if I was made of money and could afford ivory, hardwood, leather and sinew rather than nylon and ABS, I could be part of the "in" crowd, privildeged enough to be "primitive." I guess I should have read the sticky. :( Whether you though was funny as a joke, or interesting as almost primative, I hope you enjoyed it. If it does not belong, I ask that a moderator let me know and I will remove the post.
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Wolf, relax! I was totally startled to see those two weapons you posted, as this is about primitive archery. And this is not a rich boy's club - a trip to the local butcher or slaughterhouse, or into the woods, or by the side of the road, or from hunting friends, etc, can get you lots of materials for little or nothing. That is half the fun. I've never seen any ivory used at all here, as well.
Jaro, a fine weapon! Is that you spanning the earlier crossbow? Very cool clothing and period shoes.
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Wolf, relax! I was totally startled to see those two weapons you posted, as this is about primitive archery. And this is not a rich boy's club - a trip to the local butcher or slaughterhouse, or into the woods, or by the side of the road, or from hunting friends, etc, can get you lots of materials for little or nothing. That is half the fun. I've never seen any ivory used at all here, as well.
Sorry for over-reacting. I'm just now learing what I can find in the desert, etc, and yeah that is half the fun. I thought carpespasm bit about dayglo unicorn sinew was pretty funny, and well aimed, but to be asked if this project that I worked on for many many hours to try to learn a primative skill or two was a "joke" ... well, that just hurt, as I am new here, and it set me off. Sorry again and I appreciate your understanding. Thanks for the kind word.
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No problem. Those two psycho unicorn crossbows probably gave you some valuable skills in making them, and I bet they are fun to shoot. Nothing is wasted, eh? :)
You can make fun, funny stuff too and spend countless hours. I do Roman reenacting (Legio III), and made my pug a tiny gladius (Roman short sword), with a real bone grip, hardwood pommel, and leather covered wooden sheath with brass furniture, along with a wool tunic, so she could take part in our events. I don’t even want to admit how long it took me to craft those! I can post pics, if anyone wants to see it. It cost me about 3 dollars in materials. I am also making a replica lame-o Sleestack crossbow (Always loved Land of the Lost, even today. The Marshall family should have hunted dinos, though), just cause it is fun.
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Oh no Dane, its not me...Its the owner. I made couple of these since, they are pretty accurate for crossbow.
Jaro
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I wanna see a Sleestack skin backed bow. >:D And Wolfshire, you should use the unicorn horn to make a hornbow, you don't even have to worry about a curve since they're usually pretty straight! ;)
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The idea is to have the prod wide, then it can be made shorter.2´´ wide is about what I used. They arent nearly as much stressed as they look like. This was made two years ago.
I made one with a roller nut recently.
Jaro
Very nice crossbow, Jaro!
Of course you're right, it could be made wider too. But with the dimensions of the Lilløhus bow, I wouldn't pull it any longer than what it was originally. Don't think there is much to gain, as these probably were strung longer at a time than the hand-bow, and therefore more prone to stringfollow. By the way, have you seen any evidence of what string height was on these all-wood crossbows?
Great fun shooting these. Sadly crossbows are prohibited here, so mine is probably going to be a wall-hanger, if I don't get a permit.
Dane, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one wanting to see some pictures of a gladius or two. Why not make a roman reenactment thread? As I understand, you have a couple of very interesting projects going on :)
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I dont think that any owner of wooden prod crossbow would have it spanned for long time. There is definite gain from longer draw as it shoots reasonably better even with low drawweight. I m still oggling the english crossbow with wooden prod photographed in "The great warbow". That is roller nut action metal lever crossbow, with yew prod seemingly thicker than mine wrist. Its rounded from back and flat on belly. It does have lots of follow, though it probably fell into castle ditch mud spanned. I think the prod is in 200#, altough the drawlenght is not very long.
This is always an argument of people advocatising metal prods: "Buuuut it draws 500#" - yes but with effective drawlenght 5-8´´ or some. That is not awfully much of the push. There are two german cranequins auctioned on Herman Histrorica now who are apparently for drawlenght of 50 cm (allowing effective powerstroke of 18´´) - these are for horn prod crossbows. Talk about the effectivity!
You can see current owner of crossbow and crossbow in action in this album:
http://foto.curiavitkov.cz/main.php/v/zima2006/
The owner parted with it only because I m making him horn belly prod crossbow now.
Jaro
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The idea is to have the prod wide, then it can be made shorter.2´´ wide is about what I used. They arent nearly as much stressed as they look like. This was made two years ago.
I made one with a roller nut recently.
Jaro
Very nice crossbow, Jaro!
Of course you're right, it could be made wider too. But with the dimensions of the Lilløhus bow, I wouldn't pull it any longer than what it was originally. Don't think there is much to gain, as these probably were strung longer at a time than the hand-bow, and therefore more prone to stringfollow. By the way, have you seen any evidence of what string height was on these all-wood crossbows?
Great fun shooting these. Sadly crossbows are prohibited here, so mine is probably going to be a wall-hanger, if I don't get a permit.
Dane, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one wanting to see some pictures of a gladius or two. Why not make a roman reenactment thread? As I understand, you have a couple of very interesting projects going on :)
Ivar, I will when I have something to post - the large scorpio is coming along nicely, and I am working on the stand now. I have the wooden part of the springframe for the scorpio-minor / manuballista nearly done, and then the stock, maybe a month more and I will post those. I have to finish my bronze furnace and cast the plates before I can finish the project, and am seriously considering making sinew ropes for it, but not sure yet.
I will post pics of the tiny gladius over the weekend, I hope.
Thanks for the link to the pics, Jaro. Those guys look great!
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Dane are you working on that scorpio minor from spanish find with thesprings in diameter of nearly 2´´ ?
Jaro
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There are two german cranequins auctioned on Herman Histrorica now who are apparently for drawlenght of 50 cm (allowing effective powerstroke of 18´´) - these are for horn prod crossbows. Talk about the effectivity!
Do you have more info on these crossbows or pics if possible? They sound very interesting and I would like to replicate one if possible.
Alex
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Those are cranequins, not crossbows as I WROTE. Besides I have yet to see decent replica of german crossbows around as they are difficult to make. Most of what you can find on internet is crap and does not resemble its historicall model in any manner whatsoever.
Though back to original remark - if there are cranequins which allow span of 50 cm, its reasonable to assume that they were made for crossbows with that drawlenght. I have also seen couple of other cranequins in 40 cm + range. Steel prods are incapable of this kind of drawlenght and given the area and the place (mid europe in 15. and 16. century) the only other thing it can be is horn prod.
Then german/mid european crossbow in 15 and 16 century is pretty generic thing, in military variant without extravagancies etc. In fact the one with roller nut I posted is pretty generic german crossbow, and altough decent job its on the verge of authenticity - if you study these a little you find a lot of details (like the bolts binding the stock together to avoid the wood split) which do make authentic/ not authentic item.
If you want to see these things go to pages of herman historica and search for "armbrust". That said alot of 16. and anything past 16. century stuff is sporting and it requires alot of research and work to make believable medieval crossbow replica.
Jaro
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Dane are you working on that scorpio minor from spanish find with thesprings in diameter of nearly 2´´ ?
Jaro
Jaro, no, mine is based upon the Xantan find from about 2,000, in Germany. It is an all wooden Vitruvius machine, faced with iron and bronze. Some reconstructions have that bogus shoulder stock, which makes no sense, and looks like it was lifted from an anti-aircraft gun, perhaps. That is an Alan Wilkins idea, I think, which I am avoiding.
My springs will be about 1.3” – 1.4” in diameter. I’m trying to do as much as I can, including casting the bronze parts, but I do have to find someone to hand forge some iron nails, and the bolt heads.
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Ah, yes xanteen "catapulta". Isnt the bent stock often misinterpreted as for shoulder not vertical, but horizontal in fact and it serves for spaning the manubalista against the ground? (Basically the U- piece of stock is put against one belly and the weight is used to push the slide inside of the stock, thus spanning?
Jaro
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Correct. The gastraphetes, or belly shooter. The verticle rest makes no sense. No recoil with one of these kinds of machines, after all. Someone misinterpreted that, and hence we have that bogus shoulder rest.
Only the Xantan machine, no one knows what the stock looked like, but I am going that route, spanning by leaning into the machine and pushing the slider, dovetailed into the stock, up until I lock it with a small bronze trigger. With sinew ropes, it should have very decent performance, with bolts a bit over 12 inches (based, like the rest of the machine, on the diameter of the springs. That is the formula the Greeks and then Romans developed over many years). I'm looking forward to doing some penetration testing with authentic riveted maile with subarmalis, shields, etc. when it is done next year.
One day, it would be fun to make a real Greek machine with composite bow instead of the steel one Schramm built. Siege engines are addictive, just like bows.
Take a look at the photos of our legio's ballista - just the spring engines alone weigh over 300 lbs. It is all ash, Fred, the builder, did a fantastic job with this. Assembling it was a bit harrowing, as you can see in the second shot. And the third shot is of Davenport the pug, in her tunic and gladius I made for her.
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Oh that is what I call awesome machine. That is not megalomania, but gigalomania! :D
Centurio canipulos with his little sword is looking bit suspicious though. :D
What I would like to see in top performance is one of those inswing metal frame manubalistae with horsehair or sinew springs. They should be capable of shooting around 500 meters should we believe what they write about them and also able to pick up individual targets at ranges 200-300 meters, feat which no other form of mechanicall artilery was capable to repeat ever after.
Medieval machines are often primitive and crude and almost all the knowledge about torsion powered engines has been lost, but these are awesome.
Jaro
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Suspicous eh? :) She is a bit of a devil sometimes.
Keep in mind that ballista is about the smallest example of that kind of stone throwing machine. And it is so well balanced, you only have to hold the winch end up with one three fingers to rotate and elevate it on it's stand. No metal fastenings at all - all motised and interlocking components to hold it all together.
This machine is still new, and still undegoing trials - this was her 3rd or 4th firing session. We had only one turn on the two springs, and on the second shot, it split the top left timber in three places, and bent the iron plate the washer is on! Fred made those by laminating ash vertically, and we learned you need solid timber there, so he found some 5" stock and is replacing them. Truly a learning experience.
The inswingers are the apex of these kinds of machines. Even the wooden Hatra machine would perform maginifcently, I suspect, as it is an inswinger. Funny how the torsion machines dissapeared quite quickly as the Roman empire dissolved. After getting to know such kinds of torsion machines, tribochets aren't nearly as cool to me.
You are right about the accuracy of those things, wooden and metal framed. A legion woud field perhaps 60 arrow firing machines, and if you can fire 3 to 4 bolts per minute, that is murderious fire. I can hardly wait to get my full sized Scropio finished, and do some indepth testing with her. Anoteh rmember of our legion is building a metal framed inswinger, so we will find out a bit about those as well. In fact, it will be cart mounted, and we will arrange to get a team of mules to field with it.
Dane
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Sorry about the misunderstanding Jaro, I assumed you were talking about 2 crossbows with cranequins on them. Anyways, so a composite prod would be made same as horn bow? I was watching a clip Asier posted while back on PP and they had a cross section of a composite crossbow, only unusual thing was the horn was not a single layer but many square strips glued together. (or rectangular)
Dane,
That is just amazing! :o
Alex
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Alex, thanks, but I just get to play with it, I didnt build it.
Fred, the builder, is in the top photo, stocky guy with the shaved head. He is a cop in real life, and a highly cool, fun guy. He has two pugs, btw. :)
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Dane, I would be affraid to play with that!
I would not doubt that you have seen it, but as you brought up mobile artillery, Oskar's Dragon/Galloper is one of the coolest crossbows I've ever seen. About a third of the way down the page: http://sg.sca.org.nz/siege.htm
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Hi, Wolf. The ballista is a bit intimidating, but it is very well engineered.
Some interesting ideas on the SCA pages. They never shoot lethal ammunition, do they? That is what makes it the most fun! :)
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Alex, they can be made both with wooden core or just horn and sinew. Th horn/sinew is quite well known because of those pictures of sawn off piece on internet. :)
Dane, did you read Josephus Flavius? They found some stone balls in weoght around 70 kg around Jerusalem. That wont be nothing special with a trebuchet, but the romans shot these with torsion machines. These must have been gigantic indeed.
Jaro
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Jaro, I'm looking at a photo of some stone balls at Pergamon, ranging up to 75 kg. Those machines must have been awesome! If I was wealthy...guess what I would be building? :)
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Came to my mind that I made two skane lockbows while ago. This is without notches cut in, but the lever assemblies are there.
(http://sweb.cz/hawkwind/skane1.jpg)
Jaro
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HI Dane. Been a lurker for some time and am always searching for new info. on ballistas and manuballistas. have followed your work for a few years off and on.
I am a ballista builder, but use modern materials which I think is a no-no here in primitive archery land. One site you will find most interesting in my online friend Nicks Orsova inswinger "Firefly" which he recently had up to 401fps. He has been doing a bunch of penetration tests using concrete and 1/4 inch steel plate. The ballista won. He managed to beat me to the 400fps mark, so now my goal is to beat that with a 500fps manuballista, a re-worked modern crossbow based on the Scorpion which I have converted to torsion power.
I also have an inswinger manuballista bow, and slingshot - all my weaponry is spring powered. I hope to start my own little manuballista manufacturing company someday soon using ordinary modern crossbows as a starting point and adding on a ballista bolt on kit. This would be great for older crossbows whose parts are no longer available (limbs, strings, etc.). Its rather expensive to chop up perfectly good crossbows - especially the scorpyd crossbow!
Anyway, thought I'd finally say Hi. Check out NIcks Orsova inswinger ballista, with 60 inch draw, 5000lbs of pull, and shooting 7000 - 8000 grain durabolts:
www.wattsunique.com and my blog: http://warhammer1.wordpress.com/
Thanks for mention of in-swingers. Nick and I are interested in performance of these machines, and coaxing ever more speed and power from the design(s).
Warhammer1
Suspicous eh? :) She is a bit of a devil sometimes.
Keep in mind that ballista is about the smallest example of that kind of stone throwing machine. And it is so well balanced, you only have to hold the winch end up with one three fingers to rotate and elevate it on it's stand. No metal fastenings at all - all motised and interlocking components to hold it all together.
This machine is still new, and still undegoing trials - this was her 3rd or 4th firing session. We had only one turn on the two springs, and on the second shot, it split the top left timber in three places, and bent the iron plate the washer is on! Fred made those by laminating ash vertically, and we learned you need solid timber there, so he found some 5" stock and is replacing them. Truly a learning experience.
The inswingers are the apex of these kinds of machines. Even the wooden Hatra machine would perform maginifcently, I suspect, as it is an inswinger. Funny how the torsion machines dissapeared quite quickly as the Roman empire dissolved. After getting to know such kinds of torsion machines, tribochets aren't nearly as cool to me.
You are right about the accuracy of those things, wooden and metal framed. A legion woud field perhaps 60 arrow firing machines, and if you can fire 3 to 4 bolts per minute, that is murderious fire. I can hardly wait to get my full sized Scropio finished, and do some indepth testing with her. Anoteh rmember of our legion is building a metal framed inswinger, so we will find out a bit about those as well. In fact, it will be cart mounted, and we will arrange to get a team of mules to field with it.
Dane
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Warhammer, I see you post occasionally on RAT, and did check out your site / blog last night, but it was more than a bit confusing. And, you blog seems dead.
You are probably correct in that your use of modern materials is not in keeping with Primitive Archer.
That being said, do you have any examples of your work you can post? Or do you consider what you do proprietary? I haven’t seen any of your work here or anywhere else, even though you pop up once in a while. Be aware that since you have a commercial site, or are starting a company?, you can’t link to your company since you are not a paid advertiser with PA. Individual machines, though, I think would be okay, but check with the moderators first.
I am very familiar with Nick Watt’s work. Are you actually working with him on his in swinger? If so, in what capacity? You do sound like you are collaborating directly with him.
I dont want to sound harsh, but don't post any of my own comments or photos you have found here or on RAT on your site or any site associated with you.
Thanks,
Dane
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Hi Dane. Yeah, your right my blogs kinda dead, but thats okay its more for myself anyhow. I'll probly post a pic or two of the Scorpyd conversion but it would be like Aitors or Nicks machine in that it would be a basic inswinger design with no pulleys or compound design.
As far as Nick and collaborating with him, he said he wouldnt mind trying some of my suggestions here and there which some he has, and has also just recently hit his goal of 400fps using a much heavier bolt and using less than 90 degrees of rotation. He will be trying a shorter set of limbs in the future, and Im going to try and get him to try a new limb I designed for his machine. At least he now likes the "harpoons" I got him to try out and the KE seems to impress him. He has a lot of his own experiments he wants to try, and is kinda sticky to sticking to only what could be done in ancient times.
My work is mostly all experimental and geared towards higher velocities, so my machines are set up a little different than the accepted norm. Hopefully I will be able to show my design(s) or useage of the machines capabilities to be more effecient. No matter the outcome though, I will sure have one of the most interesting Scorpyds around, and will have had a lot of fun building and testing it.
Good luck with your builds and hope to see them on youtube!
Warhammer1