Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tanner on June 30, 2014, 10:46:04 am
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I was hoping you all might help me out with some parameters. I have a nice looking piece of osage 46'' ttt that I've been slowly trimming down. I'm already quite a ways in (it's bending a little already), but the plan is for a bend-in-the-handle bow so that I can get as much draw length out of it as I can within reason. Right now it's 1.75'' in the middle and 1.5'' out to about 2/3 the length - gradual taper to thin tips. I have the tips flipped /w dry heat currently, but need to even them just a scoch. I'd like to keep this bow a potential-hunter so I would like to get 40# out of it. I would also like to stick to full-on self bow for now (no backing, no overlays) given that I have yet to successfully complete an adult-strength bow. That said, this piece of wood is pretty nice and I've armed my confidence with lots of reading Halfeye shortbow threads :). Question: What are your thoughts on a reasonable draw length? I know I won't be getting my 30'' draw out of it, but I believe my wife draws 27'' ish. Is it reasonable to shoot for 27 or should I be happy with 24'' or 25''? Pics in case it matters:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140630_084009_zps4a37b6f0.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140630_084009_zps4a37b6f0.jpg.html)
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140630_084038_zps7265ff14.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140630_084038_zps7265ff14.jpg.html)
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140630_084056_zps2715e328.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140630_084056_zps2715e328.jpg.html)
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Tanner, got a bunch of short bendies (in osage). None of them are as wide as yours so weight wont be an issue at all. If you have a particular style that you like let me know and I'll be happy to post ya some photos and measurements. For you to hit 27" draw from 46" bow is probably not doable and have a snappy shooter 25" will probably be the practical limit and retain a bow that will be a real deer killer.
Most of mine are roughly 1" wide so you got plenty of wood. Let me know and I'll get ya them photos.
rich
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Unless your wife is 6' 4", she wont pull 27" on a bendy. An average gal might get 23-24" if she squeezes. You have to consider the handle depth adding to her draw. She may draw 27" with a 2" deep, stiff handle, but these bendys may have 1/2-5/8" deep handles. That really cuts the draw length down. 23-24", IME, is pushing it for 41-42" ntn. IME the bow may still look nice after 50-100 shots, but shoot it for a year or two on a regular basis being pulled beyond half its length. IME It will break down and lose weight as well as reflex. IME just because it doesn't break that first day or two doesn't mean its healthy.
IME = In My Experience
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46"ttt gives you about 44"ntn, to tell you the truth 22" is probably more realistic of a draw length, especially if you haven't built to many bows, anything over that would be gravy, good luck with your build
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Hey Tanner, go ya one better, got 3 osage short bows here that would fit the wife to a "T" a 3 yr old, a 2 year old and a pretty new one.....send me you address rousseau.rd@att.net and I'll give you the bows.....you can use them for patterns if ya like, oh ya please feel free to post what a bunch of dogs they are too >:D
rich
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looks like a bannana slug lol
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Thanks much guys! @Pearl Drums - good point, I guess I hadn't considered the handle thickness so you're right - it'll probably be closer to 25'' though my 27'' pull for her was probably pretty conservative anyway. I'll shoot for 24'' and see how it does - sounds like that could be somewhat of a stretch-goal for me anyway. I also measured it again after I wrote the original post - 46'' must have been my estimate 'cause it's closer to 47'' (just a touch under). It doesn't add a lot, but it means that it'll probably end-up being 45'' ntn. It's also only 1.5'' out to about half rather than 2/3.
@Half eye - thanks for the offer(s), sir. I'll do some more reading through your posts and see if I can find some examples to help guide me. I'll PM you about the other bows.
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Here are the bows and specs. A and C have no finish so you can tweek them to suit, of course ya can do that to any of them. Bow "B" was given to me by Don Carter and took a doe last season. I'm going to keep that one or send it back to Don, but it's in there so you can see that after about 5 years it isn't hurt none at all. I checked the bows weight for where they hit the 40# mark for your info.
Bow specs:
A...41" osage 36/38# @ 23"
B...42" osage 42# @ 24"
C...46" osage 42# @ 23" (will draw to 24")
D...48" osage 40# @ 27"
The lighter ones should help develop good form, and I know for a fact that 42# is plenty of weight with good shooting.
rich
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That's a very nice gesture Rich. Good looking group of bows.
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That's a very nice gesture Rich. Good looking group of bows.
No doubt. I have yet to find other hobby communities quite like this one. You guys rock! Hopefully I'll be able to pay it forward as soon as I get some bows under my belt.
Now the important decision is whether I should just wait until I have such a great example in front of me to finish this one or just keep rolling and compare them after it's finished? I can see learning advantages to both. :) That said, I'm on vacation all week and I only brought the one stave to the lake (rookie mistake I guess).
Thanks again for all the advice and support while I no0b my way through this fellas. Extra thanks to Rich!
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Looks like you're closer to being finished and you just need to tiller it out. I think the style has already been determined and good advice on draw length etc. Post pics as you finish it up ;D
Tracy
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I just love how generous people are in this community. With their time, information, materials, etc. There are still good people out there. Half Eye, you are one of those people. Thank you to each and every one of you who lends a helping hand without ever expecting a single thing in return.
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Well - I'm finally back to making progress with the help of an extremely generous gift. I received a couple of awesome bend-through osage short bows from Rich/Half Eye a couple of days ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to put more than a few shots through them yet, but they've been fantastic examples for my current project. A couple of takeaways I've gotten already:
1. My current project is quite a bit over-built. I've already began narrowing it some. In the previous pics there was a knot just off mid-bow that I'd left space around. After seeing just how thin Rich's bows were, I had plenty of confidence to just remove it altogether and create a slightly narrower handle-section. Here's a pic (handle still a little rough but you get the idea):
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140713_100019_zpscafbidlt.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140713_100019_zpscafbidlt.jpg.html)
2. It kinda blew my mind how thin the pin knocks could be with osage. While it doesn't apply directly to my current project (I'm using side knocks), it did tell me that I could stop being such a conservative weeny with how deep to cut my knocks. :)
So anyway - I cannot express how grateful I am for such a generous gesture. Not only will it give me a quick way to get my wife shooting some arrows with me, but it's also helping me a ton with my understanding of bow design. Thanks again Rich!
I'm not sure this last pic is very helpful, but it just shows that I have a little bit more flip in my tips than the fine examples I received. I'm hoping those will help to give me a little more ability to pull some draw length. I'm already fairly certain my wider limbs will be able to handle it - my understanding is that my design bottleneck (because it's so short) is going to be string angle/keeping the string on at draw. Am I on the right track here that slightly more recurve will help me with that? I'm still not going to go nuts with the draw length, but I thought it might be a helpful feature assuming I don't pull them out with set. ::)
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140713_100112_zps13vcqjle.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140713_100112_zps13vcqjle.jpg.html)
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Sweet lookin so far sir!!!! Man yer killin me with the flat down pics.....commence to hackin and slashin and bendin, bud >:D
When you are working on that circle, just don't go past the center of the "flip" and save that for the last bit to get some more draw.....should not pull out much at all. 8)
rich
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HEY - nothing like a much delayed finishing post. It ended-up being much lighter than I'd intended - somewhere in the neighborhood of 25# at 26'' :o . I had some limb balancing issues late in the game. My lesson-learned is to pay more attention to the width and thickness layout ahead of time rather than trying to hack-it into balance later. It's just finished with BLO because it's what I had handy. The good news is that it's nice and light for a first bow for my wife. This morning was her first time shooting it (hence the delay in getting pics), but she shot it quite a while. I'm hoping I'll be able to keep her shooting. Otherwise, I've got a 6yr old who can learn on it too. Anyway, here it is finished at F/D:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140817_091851-1_zpsokluxkqj.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140817_091851-1_zpsokluxkqj.jpg.html)
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very nice tiller on that bow, weight dont matter, it'll come along but like I said the tiller is picture perfect.
rich
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Nice tiller on that one. The weight issues pop up on me from time to time and I'm sure it will again. Get the tiller right and let the weight be what it is, then make the adjustments on the next one.
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Nicely done, tiller looks great. Getting a lot of weight out of the short ones can be tough for anyone.
Hows it look unbraced and what is a BLO finish?
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Here's what it looks like from the side - took an inch or more of set (pulled out my reflex).
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20140817_134913_zpspipvxo0b.jpg) (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/tannerwade/media/20140817_134913_zpspipvxo0b.jpg.html)
By BLO I meant Boiled Linseed Oil. Sorry - I'd seen guys abbreviate it like that on woodworking sites. :)
Something new for me on these bend-in-the-handle bows is the amount of string slap I'm getting. Do I need to raise the brace height? Hold it better (right)? Just live with it?
Thanks again for all the help guys!
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you want to adjust the brace where it shoots good,, then wear an arm guard if needed,, if you brace it higher it will put more strain on the bow,,
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You've done a nice job with your yellow lumber. While it's a little late, I too just finished up an Osage shorty with working handle. I'm 51" NTN and tillered it to a 25" draw. It's an entirely straight stave with no tip modification. At that draw length, there's no stacking and groups very well. I'm typically one who shoots only long bows with classic non-working handle, however this little bow is about to convert me. It will be in my hand when the sun comes up on day 1 of deer season. To avoid over drawing, I produced short arrows exclusively for this bow. However, I was also having good luck with simply taping off my longer arrows so as to let my left hand know when I reached my 25" of pull. Good luck and congratulations on a job well done!
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one thing i learned about short bows, form, practice form, short bows are very sensitive to bad habits. i love short bows, and yours look very good
chuck