Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on September 09, 2011, 01:08:14 pm
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I started using boo shafts earlier this summer and was loving them..................not so much anymore. I had four split on me in the last 3 weeks between the nock sinew wrap and my fore feather sinew wrap, some went farther past the fore wrap. Why and how? I was told the spine was 50-55 and my bows all fall in that range at 28". I am building some POC for hunting as we speak, I dont trust my boo shafts anymore.
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PD,
I hope the boo shafts weren't from me?
Did they break on the shot or was the damage due to impact?
I've had bamboo shafts split in this place before, but only after extended use and when shot from bows far too strong for them in flight shooting type situations.
A simple split can be glued and bound till the glue sets and still be shot safely. Japanese Yumi arrows are apparently repaired in this way if the split is fairly minor. Only do this is the splits are clean and will go back tgether well though!
I have often had shoot arrows break at around the front fletching. I think that the sudden strong spot causes a concentration of stress if the arrow has a side impact getting through tree branches etc.
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Probably faulty materials ;)!
Try using upholstery thread as your binding material. Stronger than sinew IMO..........Art
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Artsy the sinew is fully intact, I dont think the thread would matter. All split upon release Mark. I would guess none were shot more than 100 times each. None of them had any sudden impacts either, all have been shot into straw bales or foam targets all summer. They didnt come directly from you, but Im not sure where my source gets them from. Im not blaming anybody but the arrows themselves. It scares me to think of having boo splinters slammed into my forearm and hand!
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PD,
Even though I wrap all my cane knocks I also stuff a small piece of cotton batten into the shaft so I have a 1/2" deep plug and flush with the bottom of the knock slot.....then i saturate that with watery superglue.....have not had a split since. Ya dont have to "pack" the cotton it simply holds the glue till it sets to form a real strong "web" inside the shaft.
Just my way of doing it, so take it with a grain of salt.
rich
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I take it your fletchings weren't wrapped like this.
From what I'm seeing these days, folks are scraping off to much of the power fibers weakening their shafts. Shafts won't shoot as well as they could, or stay straight....Art
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Eddie probably wouldn't mess with fixing an arrow...maybe he'll chime in. Personally- I don't mess with repairing them. I've been scared from too many stories.
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Drums: Did you try inserting a small diameter dowel in the hollow ends of the shafts? I've heard guys doing this. I myself did, tapered my ends and installed glue-on nocks and points. They seemed to hold up okay. I don't have extensive experience with the boo shafts though. I still use solid wood shafts more than anything.
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PD,
Some pictures would really help understand this. Can you post any?
I'm concerned because I use and sell Tonkin Bamboo shafts (Mahill Archery on Ebay) and might be able to learn what to look out for myself and warn my customers against. The question is whether this is conncected with any defect in the shafts, and whether it could be prevented by a different method of arrow construction or finishing.
Have you looked closely at your other arrows to see if there is any sign of splits in the fletching area? Any indication where in the arrow the split started? This can often show where the problem is, like when a bow lifts a splinter or break pointing to where it was stressed.
I wonder if this may have anything to do with moisture loss? A bamboo pole will split if it dries quickly so I guess a smaller arrow shaft might do the same if it got wet, took on water and then dried quickly again. What kind of waterproofing has been applied to them and are you in a particulalry dry area?
Also, do you know what kind of bamboo these are? Tonkin or something else?
Mark in England
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They are Tonkin Mark. I sealed them with 3 coats of Tung Oil. I live in Michigan. Its relativley dry here and my arrows are taken care of well. No Art, I didnt wrap the thread over the feather. I glued the feathers on then wrapped the fore feather and nock. I didnt sand or scrape any power fibers away. The shafts are almost solid through, there is very little hollow area in the shaft. I would have to try tio drill them out if I where to insert hardwood foreshafts in. The shafts came to me ready for sealer. Our internet at home isnt working now so posting pics isnt something I can do at work. I have since made 6 POC hunting arrows for the season and will continue to work with the boo. I have plenty of shafts and arrows and would like to keep using them.
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I've never had a cane or boo shafts split because of impact or just because. I do very little scraping or sanding on them although I usually remove the corky ridge around each node. Like Art suggests, I'd say faulty materials. I have had Tonkin cane break at a node while straightening though.
I don't add foreshafts or seperate nocks to cane either, Just haft points into the cane itself and cut self nocks. I used to add selfnocks only above a node but a sinew wrap at the point and nock eliminates the need for that. I used to add a dowel or bamboo skewer inside at the nock but don't do that anymore either.
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That is odd then. There's no obvious reason why it should have happened but it has.
A totally off the wall idea. Would there ever possibly be a risk that sinew could crush a shaft? I know a light sinew wrap is used at points and nocks on Korean bamboo arrows. Would a heavy sinew wrap ever run the risk of crushing the "tube" of the boo? I'm not seriously putting this forward as a cause for your problem though.
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Mark, I noticed just about anything is possible when using natural materials. Only time I've seen boo split like that was from glancing the arrows off of objects. Now in Pearly's case, that's totally possible also;D..........Art
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I stick a dowel rod in my nock in before I cut the string notch,as far as poc shafts they are a head ache,they break way to easy.
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Another thought! Hey Pearly, you get that whacking noise when you shoot those boo arrows? Arrows too stiff will smack the arrow pass as they leave the bow. Pearly stated he wasn't for sure on their spine weight. Now I know with tonkin, even small diameter shafts can spine out really high..........Art
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i make all my nock in my cane just past a node and wrap very well with linen or thread and cover with super glue. never had one split on me at all. and i shoot from 60 all the way down to 40lb bows like everyone else i know! however the split in your arrow might have come from hundreds of strange and crazy things but if the nock is mad too far away from a node it is very possible your string nocking point if metal could be wearing away the boo. as well as the string angle and your material you serve your string with could literally be sawing your nocking point to a weak point just thing i have seen in some test arrows i did about 2 years ago.
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I've had 1 in the past 2 years (that's all I shoot) and that's because of my stupidity. Did'nt wrap the knock :-\
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Pearl Drums,
Sorry to hear of your problems but I believe its a possibility with any bamboo shaft as it fully seasons or expands/contracts with changes in weather and season. I have bought 400 bamboo shafts over the last few years, all from the same source in China. All are seasoned, straightened, ground at the nodes & lacquered. Did not notice any problems with the first 300, then with the next hundred I had approximately 18 split down their length within a month of arrival. Contacted the supplier, Tiger for those who know him, who asked experts etc about the problem and could only suggest it was due to the difference in temperature and humidity between where the shafts were produced in China where it was the height, or is it depth, of winter, and my home in Australia during the height of out summer. Tiger refunded the costs of the damaged shafts and suggested I only buy when the relative climates were closer together.
Since then I have occasionally noticed split shafts when going to make another arrow, similarly I have discovered split arrows that were completed the previous season.The later split shafts and some of the split arrows did not come from the last batch, but came from the first 3 batches so it was not a problem with the one batch. I know this because the batches were of different spine and the later splits have been spread across the spines.
So I suggest its a quirk of the material, and is something you will have to put up with if you use bamboo or any natural material. Would you be doubting your material if you found a longitudinal split in a wooden arrow?
Craig.
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Craig its not the split that bothers me, its how many did it that does. I always use natural material be it wood or plant. For the record I forced myself to grab a few more and keep shooting them. I love them, but was scared of picking boo splinters out of my hand/arm.....best case scenario. Artsy my shafts were ordered as 50-55 spine. Without a tester I have to belive that to be true, they feel 50-55 to my hands. They dont smack the side of my bow and they dont act stiff at release. Im thinking Craig may have nailed it down. It could have been poor timing with weather? Either way they get ONE more chance to stay together for the next 4-6 months. If another splits I wont buy another. I would be COMPLETEY ticked if I took a shot at an animal and it happened causing a poor hit, or poor penetration regardless of the animals size. Thanks for all the feedback and responses guys, very cool to get help like this...................except Artsy, he doesnt count. :)
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Reminds me of that time I shot a cane arrow that had previously split (4 ways) from tip to feathers from bouncing off a tree. Folded up like an accordion, ouch!
But don't let that dissuade you Pearly. Crap happens ;)! Hey, once you get your hands on some hill cane you won't look at another tonkin..........Art
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Do you need my address Artsy?
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If I had some extra I'd be glad to send some your way Pearly. Been out for a while now. Maybe give Pat B or some of those other southern boys a holler on the trade board. They'll treat you right............Art
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I use tonkin only and I dowel both ends. Overkill maybe, but they hold up to abuse! :D
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to go along with what Craig stated I had three or four tonkin cane shafts split on me this past winter.
It's a fair assumption that they weren't seasoned properly before they were sealed and shipped but
fortunately the fellow that I got them from sent me six shafts as replacements.