Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on April 22, 2014, 09:46:46 am
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So I won this stave from Bryce, cut in sisters Oregon. Primo! Wanting to make a short sinew backed bow. Was looking for some advice and help as I have never used juniper. Clint sent me some sinew for another bow and I decided to shelf the bow. So this is what I plan on sinewing. I'm 6'4" and it's taller than me. Slight deflex in the whole thing. Want around 55-60# @29"... Any dimensional help or help on ANYTHING!! Steam bend?
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if you go on ed scotts website there is some nice examples of sinew backed juniper bows there all pretty short but they make very nice bows.
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Here's what I'd do with that,but that's just me and might be different from someone else's opinion... ;)
Reduce and decrown the sapwood off,and still leaving a subtle crown...
Mark center at the apex of the deflex and place handle there
Make it for a 60-62" ntn stiff handled bow...go 1 3/4" wide till mid limb then taper to nocks
Steam bend in sharp static recurves
Get bow to low brace and not pulling far at all...just enough to make sure string tracks perfectly ..make adjustments if needed
Sinew it pulling in more reflex thru the working limbs by reverse bracing or other methods etc...
Let it cure...tiller and enjoy the love ;)
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Yup
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Oh, that's all?!? Lol. Thanks Chris. Much sinew would I need ya think?
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3 courses will be great. 2 full width layers and one racing stripe say 1" wide.
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Oops...sorry....forgot the copperhead skins that go on it after shooting it in ;) ....and enough for 3 courses,and build up a crown with the sinew as ya do it(like pearly says) ;) ....I never weigh in ounces...I just shred up a bunch and more than I think I'd need,but that's just me...some folks weigh it
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Lol of course the copper heads, lol. I'm bowyerin' on a budget! I'll have to get ahold of some more sinew. I don't believe I have enough. And I wanna put something over the sinew. Snake skins would be nice. Well cross that bridge when we come to it. Thanks again. U know I'm a sucker for statics.
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Also take all the sapwood off? Or 1/8"?
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If you can remove the sapwood and have enough heartwood left to have a stiff handle then yes..remove it...if not you can leave some and it'll be fine.....and take your time on this one and try to go slow....and if your on a budget and need more sinew go find some road kill....I've done it ;) hit the brakes ,throw the hazards on,jump out with a knife,and remove...it don't take long to remove imo...then drive away with a smile on your face,and when ya get home don't forget to show the wife the treasure ya found on the side of the road :laugh:
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Id say you will need about 10-12 back straps to do it up right.
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I have a bunch of leg tendons I got from Clint, should I try and just get back sinew? What's the difference? Just length?
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Leg tendons are tedious and labor intensive. I can process enough back sinew in 30 minutes to do an entire bow. Leg sinew, 30 days of pounding and beating and peeling and separating.....yuck. As far as integrity? Its MY belief that the longer the pieces the better the end product. Sinew is a matrix and anytime you have a bunch of short 6-8" pieces you are putting the matrix to the test. Long pieces equal less joints and overlain areas.
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Use any sinew you have. Back sinew I nice because it is longer but any sinew will work.
I'll be watching this. I have a juniper stave I got from Keenan a few years ago when he was at the Classic and it will probably be a short static recurve.
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I've never taken back sinew out. And hunting season is over. So I have the short stuff. Lol.
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Does 3 rivers carry it?
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3 Rivers is a total rip off. Ive used them for 12-15 years and cant even start to understand the 50-80% price increases on nearly everything. Its greedy and will be the demise of them, mark my words.
Anyhow, yes they do. Trade for some rather.
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Ain't got much these days. Gotta gather some stuff up. Waiting on wings and to cut this osage. Then I'll be rolling in yeller wood. I'll figure something out. Thanks pearly. I'll try and shop around next time I need something. I got a set of those scrapers from 3 rivers and boy do they suck. They feel like they r made of Christmas tinsel.
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blaflair lets see how much sinew you got
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Now that I look it doesn't seem like much? I dunno.
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Make it 62" then steam recurves?
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You can also buy sinew from pet shops, i guess they are dog treats as well...
Dont know if that sinew is any good though, never used it.
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I just finished putting sinew on my juniper bow and from my experience I think the amount of sinew you have in the picture will do a bow just fine. When you split it out, group it by size and I used 40 bundles of 5 to 7 sinew stings per bundle. I split them out into pieces about the size of kite string. and in some cases smaller. Lay them out in an organized fashion and you will be fine. My bow is 56 inches long.
Steve
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I've got a fair amount of back sinew, including lots of long pieces. I do a very good job of cleaning the membrane, meat and fat off the tendons and give them a very thorough degreasing before I dry them, so they're easy to process and will stick to the bow's back well with most any adhesive. If you want to figure out a trade, I'd be open to that. Just send me a PM.
That's an amazing stave, by the way. Some of us would about do a backflip to acquire something like that. Turn it into something pretty!
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I have some bull snake skin if you would be interested in a trade as well. Just PM me. That's. A gorgeous stave. We have so much juniper around here it makes me want to go cut some.
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By the way, Eric sent me some of his sinew and it is very good! It will do you a very good job!
Steve
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Well I'll still be needing sinew. Like i said. Ain't got much in trade... I'm gonna get her to where it needs to be and regroup. Gotta stock up on supplies.
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So you were the lucky bugger that won that stave! Congrats
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Thanks man. Trying to do it justice
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So I got it decorwned, I took off the sapwood. It wasn't as thick in spots so it all went. Juniper is sooo bendy. Lol. I was messing with some of the shavings, it reminds me of pine. Super light.
How thick should I make it before I bend my hooks? It seems like the bow will be thick. I don't want them to bend so I don't wanna take em too thin.
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So got the static bent in. One is a little off. Not much so I'm gonna roll with it for now. Gotta work my fades in and get it very low braced. Then figure out my sinew situation.
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I left the tips a little wide as well. So it maybe I can thin the one side.
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Shame to shorten that long straight piece of Juniper. I'd say take some of the sapwood off, give it a rawhide or linen back, and make a long bendy D out of it. But hey, a shorter sinew back will still be fun too.
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Well gotta go with the advice I've been given. I was told juniper makes a turd of a long bow. And I'm a sucker for statics. There was a knot about 7" from the one end and the other had more deflex at the end. Shortening it was perfect. I'd love to take this out hunting if I can get sinew on in the next couple weeks
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I just made a juniper "longbow". Backed with cherry bark. I havent put it through the chrony yet, but it certainly doesnt feel sluggish!
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Well gotta go with the advice I've been given. I was told juniper makes a turd of a long bow.
Who told you that Bruiser? Im not sure Im buying it.
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Well gotta go with the advice I've been given. I was told juniper makes a turd of a long bow.
Who told you that Bruiser? Im not sure Im buying it.
i did.
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+1
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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So I got her bending a little. Slow and steady. It's stupid how bendy this wood is. It smells good too O:)
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When you put the sinew on there it won't bend so easy anymore. My sinew'd juniper is pretty thin, considering.
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Well gotta go with the advice I've been given. I was told juniper makes a turd of a long bow.
Who told you that Bruiser? Im not sure Im buying it.
I'm not buying it either...cus I have proof in my hands to say otherwise :P 8)
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That's looking good. I have never shot a juniper long bow so it have nothing to offer. The few juniper bows I have made were kids bows. I made one a little longer for my nephew, it wasn't too sluggish though.
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Well if juniper is anything like ERC or yew, they make some fine long bows, with no sinew of course. That stuff is weighty.
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How long were the ones u made Matt?
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Bryce, I'm gonna have to beg to differ on that my friend. I have made a couple that were less than stellar performers. However, they were the exception, not the rule. I have to admit that I haven't used common juniper yet, but ERC, Rocky mountain and Utah all made good longbows. I have a beautiful piece of Ashe juniper to try in a longbow as well, but I just harvested it a couple months ago. I will post results when its cured and completed. Josh
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I have made a ERC ELB and i was not impressed with speed or my design. I was so scared of the thing blowing up that i subconsciously left the limbs thicker and wider near the tips. This resulted in slow cast, lots of vibrations and eventually a broken bow( near handle). It was a flawless stave and backed with rawhide. So lesson is get the mass where you need it and take it off where you don't. Junipers theoretically should make great bows, but its all in design. MHO :)
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We're not talking about ERC here though or yew for that matter this species of juniper is NOTHING like them. I've had multiple ppl tell that it makes a dog of a long bow, even Keenan told me it wasn't worth the time. But I did it anyways and well whatyah know....it was a garbage shooter, so much so I tossed it I the burn barrel of shame.
Now I'm not sure this is the place to argue whether or not this or that works.
Sorry for the thread jack Bruce, I enjoy watching your build.
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I wasn't trying to cut you off at the knees Bryce. No offense intended at all. I said that i haven't tried common juniper, which I believe is what is the most common out in your part of the world. The juniper I have tried, for the most part was good wood for longbows. Perhaps there is a difference in your stuff. Without trying a few different staves I couldn't say. So, that being said, I shall have to defer to your experience with your local wood. My apologies Sir. Josh
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I wasn't trying to cut you off at the knees Bryce. No offense intended at all. I said that i haven't tried common juniper, which I believe is what is the most common out in your part of the world. The juniper I have tried, for the most part was good wood for longbows. Perhaps there is a difference in your stuff. Without trying a few different staves I couldn't say. So, that being said, I shall have to defer to your experience with your local wood. My apologies Sir. Josh
Nah it's chill bro. Just read what I wrote and it sounds harsher than I meant it to be:)
Takes a lot to offend this guy :D
Next time you come out we'll go cut some!
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No worries here man, I never really read up much on juniper before this. All the bows I did find were usually rather short sinew backed bows. From what I'm learning making the bow, if it wre a long bow it would be super thick. When I cut it down to 60" and the limbs were around 1" thick it flexed some. It amazed me. If it wasn't for the bark I would swear it was pine lol. I'm a sucker for a short bow, statics, man! When Chris and Bryce told me dimensions they were quite similar. Chris suggested the hooks. I love making recurves! So a short recurve? I'll take two! I appreciate the help from everyone. And don't worry about hacking the thread. The more the marry. After I get the bow to low brace I will post a few pix. Then it's on a shelf for a little bit till I get some more sinew. So high jack away. I enjoy the debate and comparisons. I'm learning
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How low of a brace should I use to check alignment?
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I thin I read on here if you are going with statics you should go to about 4" for a low brace. If you try to go shorter it will try and go the other way. Some one correct me if that is wrong. The bows I made from juniper are anywhere from 52 to 56" but just kids bows. Hope that helps.
P.S. The weather is getting warmer out here slowly but surely. Time to get skinnin ;)
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So I got it bending pretty good. The right needs a lil something. It's at 2" brace and my string is sweet. Hopefully she stays that way. What now? Get it bending more and sinew it? I got lots of questions bout sinew. Lol anyone have a good build along with sinew procedure off the top of their head?
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Id add the sinew now Bruiser.
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Also, should I do the handle before sinew?
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You can if you want to. I don't for no real reasons other than I simply don't. I like to keep the back of my handle flat and parallel until I get it braced. Then its all done by hand, that's when I shape it more to get proper feel and balance in order to get proper tiller.
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Gotcha, when I do sinew it should I have it reversed braced while sinewing? Or just after?
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Reverse beforeyou sinew. And let it dry like that.
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With a short string? And exactly how much should I reverse brace it?
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I would suggest no less than 8" of reverse reflex, you'll lose no less than half.
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So I put two full corses of sinew and one strip down the middle. Thanks again Eric. It's got about 7" of reflex. Now the wait .... How long is long enough?
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3 weeks minimum in 40% humidity or less. 5-6 weeks if the humidity is 60-70%.
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Did you use a mix of the leg and the back sinew, or just the back sinew I sent you?
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Thanks Chris, how's it look?
Just the back sinew. I had enough so I figured why use the other. It was very nicely processed come pared to what I would have done lol.
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How long do I leave it reversed braced? Whole time? It's killing me >:D
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Yes, leave it rev. Braced the whole time. Start another bow and put that one up somewhere to cure. Out of sight, out of mind so to speak. Patience is a must with sinew. If you rush it you will regret it. It looks pretty good so far. Josh
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Yeah since it's nice out bow I can catch up on my knives. Poor soy, his are up first. I got two bows that need finish sanding. I just wanna see what it looks like lol :-[
Thanks josh
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That's an even better idea. I suspect some knife work would not only pass the time nicely, but be greatly appreciated as well! Josh
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I know this ain't about the bow, but got one of soys knives glued shaped and first coat of super glue.
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Got my skins from idahomatt!! Some sweet bull snake skins. Now only if I don't mess this up.
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Those skins are nice, now that we are finally done with sports I need to get started skinning my wife is getting tired of having snakes in the freezer. It has been a good copperhead season. ;D
Grady
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I need to get started skinning my wife
WHHHAAAAAAAAA?!?!?!?!
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Lol, commas save lives. >:D
Grady
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i laughed so hard when i read that, i had to quote it lol.
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That skin should be a nice touch! Josh
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Ahahahahahaha, love the way this thread veered off course! pretty sure I would have to finish this juniper if you try skinning yer girl Laflair! >:D
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Just to be clear, I meant the bullsnake skin would be a nice touch. ::) ;) ;D. Josh
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Just when I was getting bored with work WORK W O R K, - - - PA comes to my rescue with a great big belly laugh. Nearly spilt my coffee - again.
OneBow
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In all seriousness though, I got to hold the almost bow and I cannot believe how light it is even with the sinew backing. I have sassafrass thats really light but I wouldnt dare go as short as this one! its coming along nicely and I cant wait for you to finish it man... I want to shot it!
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looking good. you will find that juniper is really elastic feeling and it will lose poundage as you work it in so over build the bow to start out and remove slowly while exercising it a lot in between. I also have made longbows from juniper with less than stellar results. one of my favorite bows was a molly design wide working limbs with 12" levers, bow performed awesome for 5 years, but exploded a couple of weeks ago. developed a separation in between growth rings which resulted in failure of the upper limb. cant wait to see how this one turns out.
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If this bow shoots half that long nicely I'd be happy. This is my most intensive build yet. Hopefully she works out. I'm gonna get her on the tree to excersise a little. I was told 80 grit would get me along way. It doesn't like a scraper. It's light as a feather, and there's still relatively a lot of wood to be removed. It's a joy to be able to attempt such things with so much help. Opinions often vary but core rules hold true. Most of the time the just of it is about the same. So thanks everyone for your input, and laughs. I plan on filling the small gaps in the sinew and giving it another week or two. It's killing me to wait but again with the advice ::)
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Hang in there bud it's worth the wait:)
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Well it's been 5 weeks or so. Here it is. Gonna start tillering soon. I just gotta spit shine my trade bow. It was slightly deflexed before sinew. I think it looks sweet. I lightly sanded the sinew smooth. Also a knot fell out of the side of one limb. I haven't rounded the belly yet so it won't be an issue
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Looking good, love the statics
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So I had some time with the baby this early morning. So I took her for a ride and she fell asleep. I started to tiller my bow, quietly with 80 grit. I have to make a string for it for brace height. Tiller check. I like how the left is bending. The rights go something going on.
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Stiff in both centers.
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.....aaand waaaaaaay to long of a long string ...your long string should be about touching the handle....whatever mark your pulling to on the tree there,and whatever weight it is there is about the weight your gonna be at that mark...that long of a long string can mess you up and make you come in under weight FYI...
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I know I know, it was 5 am and the baby was FINALLY sleeping lol. I did what I could. It only pulls about 10" in the pic. I mostly excersise it. And rounded the belly edges.
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And......limbs react totally different when pulled down and in as opposed to just down.
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So I borrowed a string from another bow for low brace. It's about 4" in the pic. Drawn to about 45# @ 19". Shooting for 65#. Figure aim high and it'll settle a little lower.
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Stiff in the middle and fades. Don't yank it anymore than you have and lower the brace so the string is just above the handle. Your taking set near the tips and that aint no good bruiser.
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I suck :'(
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Slow your roll man. Your not gaining a thing by skipping steps, well actually you are. Your gaining undue set;)
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I know I know. I'm trying. I think I got the left looking good. Need to get the right fade bending more. Anything else?
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Closer. Make those limbs move right up to each fade. Your going to need every stitch of bend you can get.
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So I got it tillered out. Came in way light for what I was aiming for. 43#. If I yank it to my 30" draw it'll be closer. I was planning on adjusting my draw to 28" but I guess it wasn't meant to be. I'm happy with it. Gotta lighten the tips and put some horn on. Shape the handle and shoot the hell outta it. It takes about 2" of set and returns to flat. The tips return to slight reflex. Well it is what it is. Let me know how the tiller is and how disappointed u are by my weight :'( lol thanks guys.
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Tiller looks great
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Thanks. I can't wait to shoot it more than 3 times
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Tiller looks good to me. Don't be too bummed about the weight man. It'll be great for targets and game alike. Lower weight means less strain to the archer. Which CAN go a long way in accuracy. :)
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Tiller looks good at this distance. How did you go about losing all your weight? Myself, Ive made the mistake of assuming the sinew would add more weight than it did and I ended up too light, lesson learned there. Ive also just plain over tillered bows, more than once.
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Over tillered. And dropped my file on it O:) so I had to take it down to get rid of the teeth marks.
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Function over form. But I totally understand.