Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: duffontap on April 27, 2007, 06:30:43 pm
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Hello Everyone,
I for one am bummed that englishwarbow.com/forum is down, but we sure don't need to disband. We want this forum to allow the good discussions and research on the English Warbow forum to continue. This is your place to discuss all subjects relevant to these fine, war-winning weapons.
I'm really excited about this and I've got a brand new Yew warbow to get things rolling. Hopefully I can get some pics up early next week. Those of you coming from englishwarbow.com/forum should start showing off your bows here to the people who haven't had a chance to see them yet. And I'll bet that PatB is furiously working on his Yew warbow right now. ;D
Spread the word everyone!
J. D. Duff
PS: Primitive Archer has a few rules to keep in mind. Check them out here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,95.0.html
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Hey JD you actually have time and energy to work on bows!?!! Cant wait to see the one you are building.
Also, going to work on a hickory backed elm warbow soon. What type of dimensions do you think I should aim for?
David T
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Hey David,
Yeah, I'm getting out to the shop plenty. I just taught a class so I spent a bunch of time fiddling with my own projects. I'm just finishing a nice little Mary-Rose-style warbow and I'm well on my way to building the Hedeby replica viking war bow. I should have a dozen 2007 bows wrapped up by scouting season. ;D
76-80" long and 1 1/2- 1 5/8" wide should do it. Don't worry if you get 2-3" of set with untempered Elm--long draws will still get some decent performance out of a warbow with substantial string follow. Looking forward to seeing what you're building.
J. D. Duff
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I dont get as many finnished as you do but I will hopefully have the Modoc and the Elm Warbow done by summer. Planning on taking the Modoc on a boar hunt in Western WA in the fall. Think you might want to go? Its all tentative at the moment nead to talk to Dave Tinsley over at Camlann to find out where to go. Dave may go too.
Don't know if I want to try tempering the belly with a glue up. Think I may just live with the set.
You wouldn't happen to have any spare yew staves hanging arround the shop would you? One day when I get some time I will have to go look for Yew and Vine Maple.
Next up a nice little Hupa design. I'm really starting to like these short bows for hunting in the Northwest and the warbows for target and long range shots. Was shooting the 65# Hickory backed Yellow heart bow yesterday and I am really starting to like it. Tosses arrows better than I thought especialy know that I have figured my hold point out. Just to the back of my ear and then release. Much more accurate now. Just nead to figure out distances and I might actually hit the target instead of going over or under at 50 yards. ;D
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Hey Josh. I'm happy for you. This is right up your alley. I believe it will open up some doors between PA and the war bow guys too.
I'll post some more pics of my bow. Haven't done a bunch with it lately. I did put a couple of hours in last weekend and I'm ready to brace her. I mounted the horns last week so I'll put an extra groove in each tip and string her up.
Are you using dacron strings. If so, how many strands? The one I built for this bow has 16 I think.
Well, I wish this new thread well. Looking forward to lots of cool war bows. Pat
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Hey Pat,
I used a B-50 string with 20 strands on my first war bow. At 110# it's too heavy for the string and it stretches terribly. Almost everyone uses fast-flight strings. B-50 works but it's a lot of stretch and it makes stringing the bow really hard. :P If you have some FF, it shouldn't be a problem to use it on a war bow. Jaro says the 'fast-flight breaks bows' stuff is just a myth. I tend to trust his judgement.
Sorry I haven't gotten you pics of that stringer yet. Sounds like it wouldn't help you now anyway if you've got the horn nocks on already.
J. D. Duff
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I am so looking forward to this forum and please post all of the pictures that you can.
I have plans to build my first English War Bow this summer. I have been wanting to for a long time and this summer is the time. I am going to need all of the help I can get.
Thank you,
Tim
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So is this going to be true English warbows, or warbows in general? Justin
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I would say all warbows are welcome as long as people are clear what kind they are. Sound ok to everyone?
J. D. Duff
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I think we need to keep mostly for English Warbows of all styles since they were mostly designed strictly for warfare. Most all other bows were designed for dual purposes of hunting and or warfare. The other Bows forum seems to be able to accomodate the other bow types. I think we also nead a place for this type of bow style to accomodate the people on the "English Warbow" site the no longer have a place to go.
David T
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Looking forward to meeting some new folks and seeing thier bows. Welcome all.
DanaM
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David, I don't think the other bows were really dual purpose. Most primitive cultures had hunting weight bows of 40# and less and war bows in the high to extremely high weight. The reason I ask is because laminated bows or hybrids are the best that most guys can do since they don't have access to premium yew. I don't care either way. I was just curious if it had to be English in style, or war bow by weight, or both, or are laminated bows allowed, or just self bows. I don't want to influence the decision. Maybe if you can get a bunch of guys from the English Warbow site to weigh in it would and give their oppinion. Justin
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Maybe if you can get a bunch of guys from the English Warbow site to weigh in it would and give their oppinion. Justin
Hello,
Don't expect any meaningful concensus from us rabble, we never did before ;)
However, here's my tuppence worth...
Seeing as it's primitive archer and historically English warbows were extensively (but not exclusively) selfbow that should be the primary thrust.
Jeremy
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Jeremy's right, we'll never get a consensus on what an English warbow is. This forum is intended to help fill the hole left by the closing of Englishwarbow.com/forum so the purpose should be similar. I would welcome posts on any kind of war bow as long as they are not called something they are not and serve as contrast to the English design. 100# minimum! (totally kidding about the minimum). ;D laminated bows are welcome in my book--just don't call them something they are not.
J. D. Duff
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Yep! I agree. Simmilar to the Mary Rose design rounded belly that type of thing,
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Does anyone know or have a clearly defined definition of what a English War Bow is or should be?
I am very new at this and have lots to learn.
Tim
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I would say a bow with a rounded belly, man height or taller, tapering aprox. mid limb to nocks and bending throughout the bow in compas rose form. Should pull out to or beyond the ear when drawn. Draw weight is up to the individual though warbows in the middle ages where likley from 90 up to arround 150#'s. Most landing from 120 to 130#s in the later midieval ages. Bows must be able to cause total deformity from the body over 30 years of continue daily use. Lets see.... deformation of the left arms and joint from pulling bow and pounding of recoil. Increased musculature on right arm from drawing, especially the fingers of hand, curvature of the spine from drawing bow and large recoil through the body. If starting in early age left arm shorter than right. Later life intense pain from deformities and arthritis.
Yep! That sounds about right. ;D
David T
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You forgot the nerve damage and eventual arthritis in the bow hand fingers.
Tell me again why we do this?
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You forgot the nerve damage and eventual arthritis in the bow hand fingers.
Tell me again why we do this?
Because we can. ;D
J. D. Duff
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I don't think you can call it a warbow if it wont penetrate 1/4" plate armor. ;D Justin
PS JD, YOU CAN (for now). ;)
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I for one am very, very excited about this forum! In the past years, all of my hunting has become experimental archaeology types hunts.....with my flintlock, I wear the kit of an 18th C American Colonial hunter.....everything authentic.....down to the hand sewn and hand woven linen shirts and braintanned moccasins.
Recently I have been going historical with my archery passions too! My area of study is Anglo-Saxon England before the Conquest. I am putting together a proper kit......hand sewn tunics of linen and wool....hose...turn shoes and of course a proper bow!
My project for this week is a hand made Seax.....9" blade....about 1/4" thick.....hand hammered.....next week.....I will make the sheath and get my bow started.....unfortunately, due to my kids enjoying food (they really do liek to eat,,,who woulda thought!?)...I have to use poor mans yew...aka.....hickoy backed ipe!
In the past few years...my focus has been 100% on the round belly narrow designs....or the war bow and it uses for hunting.....and not many forums have what I am looking for....so I have been reading mainly.....hardys two books......bickerstaffes writings....etc....
But this fourm.....it perfect!
Thanks!
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Thanks for the introduction Stonedog. Sounds like you're the genuine article. Hand-woven linen shirt?! :o I look forward to seeing your laminated warbow.
J. D. Duff
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Justin,
'Anything I can do you can do better.....la, la, la.....' I'd bet you could do 100#s right now. Maybe more. Get yourself a good Osage stave and build that war bow.
J. D. Duff
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JD...I am a new old guy....I was a charter member of the old forum....now I am just a newbie again! LOL!
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I'm an old guy on the new forum. Ha, ha. Welcome back.
J. D. Duff
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Hey Stonedog your not alone I've been doing living history for over 27 yearsI've gone full circle from World War II, World War I, American Civil War and American Revolutionary war and now doing what I started doing when I was 17 years old but this time I've put down the big five Howard Hill Longbow and started making bows and historical arrows from scratch.
I've been experimenting with historical arrow's designs like barrelled and big chested and shooting chain mail with botkins tips and types 16 Broadhead's to demonstrate how easy arrows could penetrate chain mail as part of my living history display.
My living history impression like you were all wool and handwoven linen I per tray a 15th-century English bowmen I focus on one year and time 1471 during the wars of the roses.
I have been working a kit myself out from pictures of 15th-century artwork it have been specializing on the small things that an archer had of the Times, like animal grease horn and leather arrow discs.
If I had some technical skills I would post images of some of the things that I'm doing but I can't figure this thing out.
(http://)
Miles
http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gallery/2007/MTT.htm
http://www.lordgreys.org/
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi people. I used to visit the englishwarbow forum before it closed down. Nice to see some familiar names here. I'm not really a warbow shooter as I can't pull bows that heavy, but I hope to one day.
Simon
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Welcome Simon! I'm so thankful that PA is doing this.
J. D. Duff
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Simon, your last names not Stanley is it? If so we all know you can pull them heavy bows!!!! ;D
Just kidding! Keep practicing Simon just like me you will be up to 100# in a year or two. My problems getting the time to go out and shoot and make bows. I lement the day I started my own buisness. Seems like I'm always working!!!
All I want to do is shoot my bow all day! Sounds like a song I know.
David T
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I think once a week is enough for building bow pulling power. It gives your body time to recover. Kill 'em and rest 'em.
J. D. Duff
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Hello everyone,
I also used to visit the ENGLISHWARBOW forum, what a shame eh? Glad this is up and running, I miss my daily dose. I've just got an Italian self yew from Steve Stratton, 108lb@32, which is about 15 lb up on my last bow so I won't be getting it to behind the ear just yet! But half of the fun is the learning and improving don't you think?
Cheers,
Paul
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Post some pics of that bow Paul. I must see it. ;D BTW--welcome!
J. D. Duff
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Hi JD,
I'll get some pics sorted.
Paul
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Yes Paul, please post! All of my archery interests have gravitated towards the ELB over time....esp with their hunting applications...as I am a hunter....other designs just do not call to me like that tall,thin, rounded bow!
But as my mothers people are Pooles and thought to have been in England since before the Conquest.....maybe its written into my DNA??? ;D
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Sorry for the delay, here's a few pics. 80" nock to nock.
Paul
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5771.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5767.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5766.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5763.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5760.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5758.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5757.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/olliedog/PICT5755.jpg
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Paul nice warbow. marlon ;D
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WOW Paul,thats a beauty!
I too come from the English WarBow forum (what a shame :(),like to say a big fat thanks to PA for hosting a English warbow forum ;),nice to have somewhere we can stay together.
I live in the North East of England and love to rove in the fields and Deens with my Longbow ;D
I shoot one of Steve Strattons laminates in the medieval style but hoping to get a selfbow soon.....
looking forward to the discussions with the old members and some new friends,take care.
Andy
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5238/43cv3.th.jpg) (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43cv3.jpg)
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Hi Loki, nice to see you again.
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Hi mate,hows it going?
We seem to be collecting here dont we ;D,i hope Bruce and John sign up soon.
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Loki hey you are here is there any chance to get nick, steve,john marshal here.marlon great bow.
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Like to see those guys here too!
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I sent Steve a Email but i havent any adresses for Nick and Glennan,does anyone have a email for Peasant in New Zealand,he'd like it here and i want one of those T-Shirts! ;D
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Greetings fellow warbow shooters, for those who don't know me my name is Steve Stratton and a few of the warbow forum members shoot my warbow laminates and Italian yew bows, here is a couple of pictures for those who do not know me.
first picture is of Me, Nick, Glen and Mark Stretton.
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/stevesjem/100_3727.jpg)
Here i am carrying a few Italian Yew warbows.
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/stevesjem/100_3703.jpg)
And this one is me shooting "Thin Lizzy", 105lb Oregon yew bow, this is my main shooting bow coz it's the lightest ;D
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/stevesjem/SteveCloutabout.jpg)
Cheers
Steve
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Thats a great looking picture of great warbow shooters marlon :D
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One of these days I have to get over there and shoot some bows with you guys in Merry Ol' England! Was it Mark Stretton who just pulled a 200# bow for a world record? That is impressive! Nice bows too! Wish I could afford one. One day! One day! ;D
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Hello all,
I am another EnglishWarbow forum lost sole ;-)
I have two of Steve's laminate bows; one of 90lbs and I have just received my new 4 laminate 120lb one
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Hi Alan, glad you made it.
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alan glad you got my message in archers rest marlon
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yep, thanks - finally found you all ;-)
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Alan, welcome aboard.
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Hi Alanesq,glad you found us ;D.
Does your new Bow have the same style nocks as your 90lber?
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This is shaping up to be a great new forum!
It must be fashionable....its drawing the finest of people!! (to quote Steven the Irishman)
Looks like Steve and those English boys know what its all about! Make a few bows, shoot a few arrows and then enjoy a few pints!
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Hi Alanesq,glad you found us ;D.
Does your new Bow have the same style nocks as your 90lber?
No, Steve was finding that at this weight the wood just wouldn't take it
but I then found a place selling fake horn (used for wood turning) so I bought some of this and sent it to Steve to try, so it now has nocks made of this
We have no idea if its up to the job but it looks the part. My first few short draw shots broke off some small bits around the edge so at the moment I am not confident, but we will soon see ???
I am still shooting it in so I have not yet loosed any arrows at 32" but I have discovered that arrows shot at 26" draw on this bow go further in the boss than 32" drawn arrows from my 90lb bow !
If this fails Steve can get hold of some naturally shed goat horn which could be used but I am hoping this fake stuff will be ok as then my horn problems are over (and its not often a man can say that ;-)
Of course if the current nocks fail myself and the bow could be no more, so I am keeping a close eye on it !
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you'll have to post a pic of the fake horn,what is it,some type of resin?
That is,if they dont fail and kill you ;D.
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My camera is terrible indoors so I will try and get a picture next time I use the bow
The horn material is from here:
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Alan, have you tried some of the denser woods like Ipe or even ebony. There is also an african hardwood, cant remember its name, thats so dense its like iron and sinks in water. I think Ipe you might be able to use and turn down to look something like horn. Anyone else have any ideas?
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Dave, lots of woods sink in water.
J. D. Duff
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Hi guys,
have just found this forum after missing the old warbow one so its great to be able to chat again about these great bows.
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Good to have you here Len. Keep the momentum going.
J. D. Duff
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hi i use longbows a am geting a self bow i dont think i can use warbows as i have a bad back,
i do reoncakment shows 13th 14th centery what lbs to you say is a war bow i think 100lbs some people say 90lbs