Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bob S. on April 17, 2007, 01:14:04 pm
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I want to tell you folks that I've looked at the bow pics on this site and you guys do some awesome work. Beautiful bows! I'll be starting my first bow soon (white ash) and from what I've read here, I'd be better off crafting a flat bow from this wood, as opposed to the long bow that I intended to make. Is this because a flat bow would be stronger/more durrable than a long bow made from ash?
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By long bow do you mean an English Long Bow(ELB)? the flatbow is a American Long Bow (ALB)
I'd say do what your heart desires there are folk on here that can help no matter which type you do.
I've only made ALB with ridgid handles, I believe the ELB is a bend thru the handle design. I believe you have to tiller differently
depending which way you go. Good Luck eh.
DanaM
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Look at that, I'm learning already. I meant the English long bow, but from what you describe the ALB is what I have in mind. Looks like I've got a lot to learn. Thanks for the info.
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If ya haven't already bought them I would suggest getting The Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol 1,2,&3
also a subscription to Primitive Archer Magazine.
DanaM
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Primitive Archer was already on my list and I will look into The Traditional Archers Bible too.
Thanks again.
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There are folks here that have made ELB and ALB style bows from ash. Either can be done but I think a flatter belly would be preferrable...at least by me. Pat
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yep, i like 'em flat and i like 'em wide ;D
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Not me. I prefer 'em short with just a little bit of stack.
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Hey Marius and Stickhead, Ya'll are talking about ash bows aren't ya! :-\ Pat
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Bob, If I had to choose just one of the three TBB it would be 1 without a doubt. You can get the others later if you need to. I would definitely get PA magazine though. I think you would be happier with the flat belly. Justin
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There is a great article in a back issue (help me out here with which one guys) called 'A pair to draw to.' The author builds a flatbow and longbow out of hickory and compares their performance. The test is not perfect, but it does reveal the difference between the two styles when made from a white wood like hickory, ash, elm, etc. You can pick up that back issue for about $3.
And, Dana I think there is a notable difference between the American flatbow and American versions of the longbow (i.e., the St. Charles semi-stacked style). You are right to say that there is a more 'American' version of the longbow, but the flatbow is something different. Typically, everything that is not a recurve or compound is called a longbow and this just adds to the confusion. (Sorry to argue jots and tittles here ::) )
J. D. Duff
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definitely, the others should be not so wide and not so flat ;D
i agree with justin on the TBB1. the chapter about bow design and performance was my favorite. must have read it 100 times and still discovered new things in it.
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You have a huge head start being familiar with this website than I did when I built my first bow - a lot of good advice from good people.
Good Luck! Have Fun! : - )
woody
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From what I've seen so far, I have to agree woody. Thank's everybody, I really appreciate all the help.
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Marius, You ought to blush with that remark. :-[ LOL Pat
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Duly noted JD, thanks fer the clarification.
Hey aren't you supposed to be in the shop makin a viking warbow ;D
Marius you sure yer wife doesn't speak English? ;)
DanaM
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JD that article was in Volume 4 issue 1 I believe.
DanaM
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JD, The AMO standard says any bow that when braced the string touches any part of the bow limb except the string grooves is a re-curve. Anything that the string only touches the string grooves only is a longbow. I think that broadens the definition of a longbow quite a bit. ??? Justin
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it so hjappens that I'm working on my first White Ash flatbow Bob, after 5 years and a bunch of other woods and styles. Mine is set up at 69" nock to nock, 7" between fades in the handle area, 1 7/8" wide from fade to mid limb, then stepped tapers at 8" and 4" from tips to 1/2" wide. I'll tiller it like that and then slim down down tips. I'll probably heat in a little reflex over a stove burner with a little oil rubbed on, stringing it hackwards and tightening gradually. For a tall dude with 31" draw, I'll go for 60# or so. Feel free to check in to exhange notes on your progress. I read three or four key chapter in BB1 and mostly just came on here for advice and learned by watching. Guys like Pat B. tom Sawyer, George and many others were my teachers.
Dave
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Sounds good snedeker. I'm going to try to find a copy of TBB 1 this weekend. If I can't find one locally I'll order one.
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Bob, Maybe you can get Dave to do a build along and you can fallow along with him.
I searched high and low and finally had to order TBB. I couldn't even find it on the big book sellers on the internet. Of course I didn't know about Horsefeathersranch at the time. There is a link to them at the top of the page. Justin
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Thank's Justin.
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Thanks Dana for finding that. I just read that article the other day but I couldn't remember what magazine it was in!
Justin, you're right about the AMO standards of course. But because of that broad definition, saying 'longbow' is saying little more than saying 'bow' as 80% of bows will fall under that definition (I just made up the 80% ::) ). We have to differentiate one 'longbow' from another by adding additional information which is less general. For example:
Longbow-->Self-Yew-->English-Style-->Victorian-Era-->Gentalman's.
As I admitted, I was arguing jots and tittles (details) but to say that the American Flatbow (a style of longbow coming out of the golden era of archery in America) is the American Longbow isn't strictly accurate by my understanding. I apologise for bringing this up on a thread titled 'first bow.' :-\
J. D. Duff
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JD that article was in Volume 4 issue 1 I believe.
DanaM
Thank's guys.
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Dave, You mentioned re-flexing the limbs on your latest bow. I've read of others doing this, some by putting the green stave on a form and letting it dry with a little reflex. Do you generally reflex your bows? Is it considered better to do so?
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Marius you sure yer wife doesn't speak English? ;)
DanaM
dana, i'm still married ;D
bob, not sure if you intend to heat treat your belly (heck, i don't even know if it works with ash) but that's when i induced some reflex into my hickory flat-bow. out of the approx. 5" of reflex it retained 2". i did that when she was tillered to about 20" of draw and finished the tiller after the heat treatment.
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Thank's. I was just wondering if you are better off with some reflex or just going straight.
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the way i interpret what happened to mine is: without the induced reflex, she would now have some stringfollow. i also think she's a Little snappier because of the reflex.
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Ahhh, I understand. Thank's again.
Bob
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By reflexing you are adding more tension to the string early, and it does make the bow a little more snappy. Heat treating does work with ash. Justin
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More good info. Thank's. I'm going to cut an ash in the morning that I've had my eye on for a while. It looks good on the outside. We will see. I was going to cut it today, but a friend talked me into arrowhead hunting instead. Beautiful day for it here, 67 and sunny. I almost forgot what that was like.
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Bob, take some wood glue or shellac or something to seal the ends after you cut it. Cut you logs about a foot longer than you want your bow, and then seal the ends. This will keep checking to a minimum..... Chris
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Thank's Chris, I wouldn't have thought to cut the log longer than the length of the bow.
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Any of you folks make bows from green wood? That section in TBB 1 sparked my interest. It would give me some hands on experience while my ash log is drying. I also have a friend that has had some hickory branches drying in his garage for a few months. I don't know how well they would work, but I may try one of them too. You guys have created a monster - and I can't thank you enough. ;D
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..........................Thats pretty much all I do, make bows from green wood. Reduce them to pretty close to bow dimensions and stop and tie them to a board(2x4) and let them dry out. Taking them down pretty much lets them dry much faster. Leave tips full width so they hopefully dont twist. Good luck............bob
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I made my first bow,Hickory,from green wood.It was semi dried I believe because I would have to keep taking wood off because it would gain weight.
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As long as you don't stress the wood(don't floor tiller past 4") making green bows are less work and will dry quicker but like Bob said strap it down so it won't twist or turn.
On the hickory branches, they should make good bows if wide enough. You will want to figure which it the up side and which is the down side. You want your bow from the up side. That is the tension side. When you cut it in half or shape down the belly she is gonna take some backset. You may want to control how much or it could get out of hand. Pat
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Thank's guys. I'm going to get started on the green wood bow this weekend. I'll keep you posted.
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Bob, Be sure you seal the back and ends real well. ;) Pat
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Always thought about gettin a moisture meter but the cost is enough to make me wonder if it is a really nessasary tool anyway. Anybody ever use one? Auggie
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I have one as I think does Pat. I haven't used it in years, Iam more confident in my eyes, when I start to tiller, if it starts to take set I know its still to green and I let it dry out for more time before I work on it.........bob
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Like Bob said I have had one for years and never use it. Usually the wood I use is a few years cured anyway but I mainly go by feel and sound...and 20 years experience. ;) Pat
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I went out to the shed to check on my ash log this morning and it was gone. Come to find out my girlfriends son BURNED IT Saturday night. They had a little get together and not realizing what it was, thought it would be a nice addition to the fire. He now knows. From what I've read in TBB 1 I'm not expecting too much out of my first attempt, but it would be nice to be able to at least start one before I lost it. Oh well, I've got lots of trees around here.
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Well, I'm going to try it again. I went out this morning and cut another log to dry, one to try my hand at green and dug some leeks for dinner.