Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: lowell on December 21, 2007, 05:36:48 pm
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Had posted a couple deer I had got with osage bow and rose shoot arrows this fall. Someone said I should showhow I made the arrows. Ihad said maybe when deer season wound down.
Well I have been collecting some shoots so I'll attempt to explain what I do. Don't claim to know it all but the arrows have been working pretty good for me.
I would be glad to learn something from this too so please add anything that may help me make them better or easier!! ;)
Bear with me and here goes!! ;D
First go collect some shoots... be fussy, hey don't get straighter after you get them home to the shop. Also get them a lttle bigger than you think you need. They seem to shrink a lot after they are dethorned, scarped and dry out. Get a avriety of size so you can get an idae of what you will need to get them spine right for your bow.
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The next thing is to get rid of the thorns... I scrape them off with a sureform rasp and gloves!
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Now I remove the rest of the bark/outer layer of shoot. I use a scraper like I use to scrappe bows.
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I built a bit of a jig to straighten the shoots. I just slide the shoots betwwen 2 pieces of wood and bend back and froth to get rid of the major bends. You can't do to much yet to straighten them now when they are so green but just get a start at getting them straight!!
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Now just put 8 or 10 shoots in a bundle and wrap with tape. I put equal number of thick ends and thin ends together at each end of bundle. I also try to move shoots so they are as straight as possible in taped bundle as they can be as they dry.
Just set aside and let them dry for maybe a week.
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After they have dried a week or so I start to straighten in jig again but with some heat from a heat gun. Use the jig or just straighten by bending with hands. You won't get all the bends out right away, just rebundle and do again in a few days as needed untill they are straight
Slight waves from end to end don't seem to bother the arrow flight but you don't want the arrow to have any arch from one end to the other.
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Here they are starting to get straighter but I'll keep working them on and off and rebundle after each straightening.
Would like them to be dry for maybe a couple months but not really sure how long it takes. ??? Depends how busy I am and how antsy I am to get them to shoot. Dryer is no doubt better!!
I have 2 batches I'm working on. The one batch has been drying about a month already. This is how far I am with them right now.
Will post more when I do more work on them!! ;)
If I'm not making something clear just ask and I'll try to explain better!!
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Hi, Man they look great!!!!!! Could you tell me what poundage your bow is that you shoot these arrows with? Steve.
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Thanks for sharing lowell, nice build along. I like the straihgtening jig thats a great idear.
Now I have another project to get to ;)
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Like the straightening Jig Happy Christmas
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Hi, Man they look great!!!!!! Could you tell me what poundage your bow is that you shoot these arrows with? Steve.
I'm making these arrows for a bow somewhere between 47# to 54#. This is the poundage I try to get when I'm making a new bow. The bow I hunted with this fall was 47# @ 26" but would like to try one at a few more pounds!!.
Some of the shoots will spine higher and some lower. I'll sort them out later. Not sure how heavy an arrow could be made from the shoots before they get too big!!
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Neat Build-a-Long Lowell. Can't wait to see more and I too like the jig and the ingenious Heat Gun holder.
Otoe
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Great build-a-long. Rose shoots make good arrows. The only time-saving tip I will add is one that my wife who doesn't make arrows taught me-use rubber bands on those bundles. They tighten as the shoots shrink, and I'm more likely to take the bundles apart and hand-straighten them more often if I don't have to deal with tape or string. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build-a-long.
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This might be silly but I have some over grown rose bushes around the house that the wife wants to get rid of. Will these be alright to use or are the wild roses different that the ornamental ones?
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Good question , I would have to say no difference. If you can get some fairly stright
shoots of the appropriate diameter they should work.
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I don't know either. ???
My wife dosen't have roses..... and that's probably a good thing!! >:D or I'd be in trouble with her!!
Have trimmed some of her plants thinking they were a type of viburnum?? Still like the rose best from what I have found around here.
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I think most any rose will work. Pat
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Pat B do you lose much to checking by taking the bark off early I lose a lot to checking so now live the bark on till they are dry and still lose some. I have switched to Hazel nut shoots now I like them better seam to be easyer to straiten then Rose Tom
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I don't use rose much but do know they will check terribly if debarked too soon. When I did cut rose I usually try to get shoots 3' or more long, de-thorn them and wrap the bundles with twine. After a month or 2 is when I would start debarking a few at a time to be sure they were dry enough. This time of year it, as dry as it is, it doesn't take long for them to check.
I use sourwood shoots or cane for arrows now. With sourwood, I can scrape the bark anytime and they usually won't check. Viburnum will check but makes good arrows. I have an abo arrow I made that has checks all along the shaft but they have no ill effects on the arrows flight. Pat
ps. Mickey Lotz(the Ferret) has some info about rose arrows on his site I think. Maybe even Jawge.
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I want to add to Hillbillys rubberband idea. My dad make these 1/25 scale (roughly) log houses. Most of the saplings he cuts are 3/8" or a little bigger. He puts the bundle around an old mop handle and uses the big rubberbands. He puts the bands over the high spots or bends and works his way to the ends. He says that helps straighten them out because the bands will push them down to the mop handle.
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He says that helps straighten them out because the bands will push them down to the mop handle.
What a great idea, I'll give that a try with the next batch of shoots I get.
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What diameter do people use for their rose shafts? 5/16th or bigger up to 1/2 inch? Just trying to get an idea of range of size to look out for. I know rose can be tough as I used it for bows when i was a kid.
Mark
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The few rose arrows I've made, the ones that worked best were about 3/8" or more, and I planed them down to 11/32" or so. They'll shrink quite a bit as they dry, too.
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I agree with Hillbilly. But also depends on the wieght of the bow you are trying to match them to.
What really surprised me was how much smaller they seem to get after the thorns and barl come off and they have dried.
I honestly have to say I haven't had trouble with them checking. I scrape the bark off right away and leave them longer length till they dry a while. Maybe my shop is good for drying shoots so they don't check??
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I haven't had much trouble with multiflora rose checking, but I cut some swamp rose shoots once and they checked worse than anything else I've ever used. They pretty much have to be dried with the bark on.
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The following pictures are what I did next....
Checked for spine and got rid of extra weak or extra stiiff shafts.
#1... Spined weak
#2...Spined strong
#3 ...Spined about where I want, in the area of the X.
#4..Shows where thorn was and extra thickness.
#5..Lightly rasp with sureform to even out where thorn was.
#6..Scrape off any bak still left on the shaft.
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#1 Shafts are getting close but will keep them near the easy chair and still try to get a little straighter.
#2..Cut the nock on the band saw.
#3... Some filing and sanding to get nock to fit string and wrap with back sinew.
#4...Taper the ends to accept the points.
#5..Stain with rit dye and alcohol.
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#1.. Finished with about 6 coats of Minwax wipe-on.
I then shot bare shafts to see how they might be. Had 6 that seemed they might be good, 3 that were close but maybe a little weak and 2 that did not look very promising but will fletch all to be able to shoot and then decide.
#2..Fletched them with a goose cock feather and 2 turkeys. All left wing primaries. I don't see a big difference from left or right wing but prefer the primaries as the secondaries seem loud.
#3..Completed fletchings
#4 and finished arrows
I have shot them all and think I will get about what I expect as good shooters, 6 to 8.
Now I'm going to start shooting them and look forward to turkey season.... And work on a cherry backed osage I have had in the works for a while!! :)
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Great build' -Thanks!
This may be a dumb question, but would you mind explaining or showing where on the wing you'd find the "primaries" vs "secondaries" etc? I assume the primaries are the one's out near the wing tips?
I also like the quick method you use for spining, great idea. Rather than use a spine tester, if I needed, I could just find an arrow that seems spined right for my bow and make marks like you did to go by. I like it.
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Great build along and nice lookin arra's.
Wapati the Primaries are at the tip of the wing, I believe there are 10 per wing.
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Wow great build along. thanks because i just cut a few rose shoots. Do you have much of a problem with them checking after you debarked them green?
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Hey great buildalong.I cut a bunch of wild rose about six years ago,I've still got most of them,still building arrows out of them.I moved up here to alaska about 5 years ago and now make alot of arrows out of alder shoots but, they are not as dense or tough as the rose shoots. Good looking arrows you turned out. Frank
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david w.,
There was some thoughts on the shoots checking earlier in this thread. I don't seem to have any trouble with checking.
Thanks for the kind words all!!
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Great build-a-long Lowell. Thanks.
Of the few shafts I've harvested, only a couple have checked at knots, for what its worth.
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How would you straighten the arrows if you didn't have a straightener?
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Nice build along Lowell! It'll be of use to me :).
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How would you straighten the arrows if you didn't have a straightener?
Most of my straightening is just by looking down the arrow and bending the shaft so it is straight!!
The shafts sit near my easy chair and they get checked and "tweeked" often before they become arrows. ;)
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Nice build along,thanks for sharing.Need to get on my Cain. :)Looks like about the
same process :)
Pappy
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Lowell, your fletching reflects what I've wondered alot but never tried...mixing goose cock feather with barred turkey....how do they fly? Isn't the goose a bit light weight compared to turkey fletch?
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Lowell, your fletching reflects what I've wondered alot but never tried...mixing goose cock feather with barred turkey....how do they fly? Isn't the goose a bit light weight compared to turkey fletch?
I questioned mixing goose and turkey too but asked opinions here and was told they fly fine. I can't see any difference than using all turkey. Seems to me that proper spine is the most important consideration to get good flight!!
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nice arrows! nice build-a-long! thanks, frank
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My question is, when do you cut your shoots? I have a rose bush in the back yard, I handle the greenery, and the neighbor despises it, so I have free reign on cutting. My recent research says to prune your roses around the time the forsythias bloom. What say you?
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I have always cut them in the winter. Seems I read some where to cut them in the winter...... when the sap is down??
If I needed some in the summer I would probably cut them and see what happened!!
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It all depends on whether you are talking horticulturally or for archery. Ideally you should prune your roses initially just as the new buds begin to swell in early spring(late winter). Most roses bloom on new wood so the more you prune, during the growing season the better the bloom. For arrows, winter is the best time but you can cut them any time of the year. Pat
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First post here, as a question. Has anyone ever heard of using owl feathers for thier arrows?
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ooh i think that might be a no no here in the u.s.
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My guess is that it'd be more of a legality issue.
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The best way to get them.....if it is legal to possess them, would be to get them from a raptor recovery center or perhaps a falconer. I dont even know if they molt flight feathers.
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did a quick search and found out the possesion of ANY migratory bird or raptor feather is a strict no-no unless you have the necessary permits....whatever they are. So owl feathers are out of the question unless you are a licensed falconer.
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Avaram, it is definitely a no no to even possess them, unless you have some sort of tribal paper saying how and why you have them. Better check with your local game commission first, then if you can possess them, check with the raptor groups, or road kills.
But there are so many other types of feathers out there to use. Even chicken feathers, crow, raven, but I am not sure if you can possess raven feathers either. Like I said, check with your local game commission, but most any feather should be fine. Some are just better than others, but use what you have. Know anyone with peacocks? the wing feathers are great. Owl feathers are softer, so maybe they would be quieter......stealth arrow......
Wayne. ;D
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yup, just K.I.S.S. I have only had one day to paruse this site and allready hatching plans for a bow, glass arrowheads, rose shoot arrows, and a skill saw blade knife. I dont see any reason I cant make my metal tools out of a skill saw blade. Soften up that blade overnight and it should be soft enough to make my own rasp! Anyone know if Mountain Ash would be a suitable wood for a bow? How about tamarak(Hackmatack). What about purple heart? I might even make a set of kitchen knives for my wife if I get good enough. Henkels are too expensive. Why dont I see anything about people growing their own blanks? Oh, Norwiegen Maples for bows? Why dont people use stone for bow tips? Give me a couple of hours and I might remember the questions I forgot!