Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ben.Kellerman on January 22, 2018, 02:31:46 pm
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Hello All. As stated I'm new to the forum and green as can be to bow building. Got the itch a few weeks ago after digging out a couple of my fathers "antique" fiberglass bows(unusable because of cracks). I've been stalking the forum and a few other sites and watching endless youtube videos and I started my first bow a few days ago. Red oak board from Lowes. Went with 62"X1.5" and tapered to .5" at the tips. I'm shooting for at least 45# @ 28". I jumped in head first and blind folded so I may have made some mistakes but here is the bow I'm working on. Made a make shift tillering tree and in this picture it's at about 32# @ 18". Now I'm kind of at the point where I feel like I'm in over my head so looking for advice from the pros. Where am I at? And where should I go from here? Thank you all in advance. Your knowledge is much appreciated!
P.S. Picture would not attach so more to come
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Welcome to PA, Ben. Once you get the pic thing figured out we'll jump in and help you out.
Your pics might be too big. You want them to be 640x480. You can use an image storage site like Imgur. It is free and will resize your pics for posting on web sites.
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http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc386/Bktgifridays/IMG_2012.jpg
Hopefully this works. Thanks Pat. Image size was way too large.
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I wonder how many of us started with the red oak board bow...I did. Welcome to PA, Ben.
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You are doing pretty good for your 1st bow. Tiller has a few minor stiff spots and I see one potential hinge in the left limb. I doubt you will make your weight on this bow. It needs to be working a little further into the fades also. I would just take my time and get the tiller rounded out nicely before I went any further in draw. maybe end up shooting for 35# on this bow. The one area I see bending too much I don't think will hold up to a 50# draw,
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Thanks Badger. Not a big deal at all if I don't get the weight I wanted. Would like to be able to hunt with it but I'm already positive this is far from my last bow. Just curious is the 10" riser I used to large for this length bow? I felt like I was having problems with the fades transitioning to the belly?
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http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc386/Bktgifridays/IMG_2016.jpg
I feel like a took a lot of wood off but I see very little change. I know I obviously need time developing my eyes for this stage but after staring at the difference between the before and after photos, all I can see is that I think the left limb needs some work to match the right. My biggest tell that I actually worked on the bow was how much easier it was to draw to my original 18" mark. I didn't weigh it (kids bed time)but could tell it was significantly lighter than before.
Thanks as always for any input.
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Trying this to see if I figured out how to resize the picture.
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Welcome to PA Ben. It looks to me like most of your bend is in the first third of your limbs coming out of the fades. I would stay away from that area for awhile. Look at where you limbs start to stiffen and straighten back out. Put a pencil mark from there to your tips. Remove wood by pencil mark. Keep repeating this process until bend is even over entire limb. Some guys use a tillering gizmo or even just a straight edge. If you put a straight edge against belly of bow while on tree you can slide it up and down the limb observing the gap between limb and straight edge. Where limb is bending gap will be wider. Where limb is stiff gap will be narrow. Usually leave last seven or so inches stiffer by your tips.
I think 62" board and 28" draw might be asking a lot from a red oak board bow with a stiff handle. I'm not sure as I have only made bows from staves but even for a stave bow I wouldn't call it conservative.
It takes a few to figure out how much wood is required to get it to start bending. Like you said the first few seem like you keep taking off wood and nothing is happening. Once you reach a certain point just a few scrapes can make a big difference. I'm thinking your at that point on first third of your limbs. Now you need to get the rest of your limbs bending especially if you want that draw length. Your limbs should tapper in thickness getting thinner as they get further from the handle. Especially a flat bow not so noticeable on a piramid style.
Good Luck and carry on. The real secret to this is tillering and making the bend even over the whole limb. They all are a little different and they all have something to teach us.
Bjrogg
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Thank you for the insight Bjrogg. I guess I was pretty far off as I was assuming I had the majority of the work left near the fades! It seemed like the tips were getting really thin. Any idea what an average thickness should be at the tips? I'm not home now but I believe they are somewhere around 3/8" maybe a hair less.
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Ben it really depends on if they are or aren't bending. It's pretty amazing sometimes how thin they can be. If you are concerned they are to thin you can "tiller from the side" also. I like keeping my last seven inches or so stiffer. Bending but not as much. I think if you put a straight edge against belly it will help you see how limb is or isn't bending. If you study your picture though you might notice a nice bend in first third of limb. Then your limbs are straighter with very little bend. This is very common as the most stress is in the area bending.
Bjrogg
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Hey Ben. Looks like your off to a great start there. I don't have the experience like many of these other fellas. Just want to throw out 1 thing if you are worried about thickness of you limbs. Double limb thickness will increase draw weight 8x , double limb width will increase draw weight 2x. My point is, it does not take much to change things when you are tillering from the belly. Hope I explained that correctly. Good luck! Lots of smart cookies on here to lead you in the right direction. Cheers Mike
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Ben I agree with M2A. You've got the start of a nice bow going there. It's all about taking off what not bow and leaving what is right now.
Bjrogg
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Thanks folks! It's encouraging enough hearing from you guys that I'm off to a decent start! Was afraid I'd get on here and find out I did something fatally wrong and that I had a nice looking piece of firewood! This hobby may get me and my addictive personality in trouble! )-w(
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Ben it very possible this could change you forever.
Bjrogg
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My 2 children(3yrs and 5yrs old) who have been my "helpers", already declared that we're going to make them bows when we're done with mine! Anyone have a toddler/kids bow thread on here?
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Making kids bows is really just like adults bows except shorter draws and much lighter draw weight. It's very easy to make bow to heavy for kids especially when they haven't shot at all yet.
Bjrogg
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Welcome Ben. Glad to have you here.
Be careful ...just a bit short for 28".
I would do as Badger says.
Also, hope you chose a straight grained board.
More on my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
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Welcome aboard, Ben! These folks have a wealth of knowledge and will share it! You are ahead of me, but looks like you are making progress!
Hawkdancer
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My 2 children(3yrs and 5yrs old) who have been my "helpers", already declared that we're going to make them bows when we're done with mine! Anyone have a toddler/kids bow thread on here?
Make them way lighter than you think. You don't want to put them off because it's too hard to pull. I made a bow for my grandson out of a sliver of Bamboo. It only pulled about 5#.
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Here's a quick pic of the grain pattern. I think it was a decent chunk of wood.
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And here is where I am at with the tillering. Quick question. At what point am I supposed to brace the bow?
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This is at 24". Hit about 32lbs on the bathroom scale.
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That's looking a lot better Ben. I'm not sure how much more your gonna get out of that one. First couple inches right out of right fade would give you a little more draw. Otherwise it looks like everything is moving now. Have you shot it yet?
Bjrogg
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That's looking a lot better Ben. I'm not sure how much more your gonna get out of that one. First couple inches right out of right fade would give you a little more draw. Otherwise it looks like everything is moving now. Have you shot it yet?
Bjrogg
Yikes! Shot it yet?? I haven't even braced it yet! Is it ready for that?
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I think you could get a little more draw if you get the first little bit working out the fades now. Be careful you don't get a hinge there. You really don't want one there. You could bend just a little there though. I'm thinking you'll have a hard time getting to 28" draw though. Unless you bend through the handle. You could short draw this one though.
Bjrogg
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It looks like the right out of fades and left just a bit mid to outer limb but you have a much nicer bend now
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This is at 24". Hit about 32lbs on the bathroom scale.
I’d for sure get off the long string now. I usually go from belly tight long string to 3 or 4” brace and work on tiller there out to 3/4 or so of what my final draw length will be, then go to full brace of 6 - 6.5”.
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I tried red oak for my first bow a couple months ago, then some guy said here try this hickory its free man. Now I'm thinking Osage, be careful man red oak its the gateway wood! But I'm having a blast even though my first few bows didn't turn out so great. Good luck and good shooting!
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Did I jump the gun(or bow I guess)? Strung it up and shot a few arrows through it! Seemed great to me! Awesome experience! But....a little background info. I know absolutely nothing about archery. I had a bow in my youth and messed around with my dads bows but basically this is the beginning for me! Hence the reason I wanted to kind of start from the beginning. A bow in its most basic form. AMAZING!! I'm hooked! ;D
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Started on my handle too
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Well done. Enjoy your first. Congratulations! Jawge
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Enjoy the feeling Ben. It is very addictive. Learn all you can from this one and start another soon. I'll never forget the feeling of shooting my first bow. I'll never forget how much I missed it when it broke to.lol Keep on building them and making them better. I like you had absolutely zero experience with bows when I started. Sometimes I think that's even a good thing.
Bjrogg
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Thank you all for being so welcoming and willing to help. Just put a quick coat of stain on it. Personally I think she's looking pretty sharp! What does everyone finish their bows with?
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:OK
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Looking great, Ben. Welcome!
You can finish bows with all kinds of things. I usually use 2 part epoxy or polyurethane on laminated or more modern-looking bows and oil/beeswax on real primitive-looking stuff. Long as it won't chip or flake when bent a little.
10" is longer than I would have done the handle on such a short bow, but it worked out, right? That, plus a stubborn transition getting the limbs to bend down from the fade/dip area makes the bow look pretty flat through that middle section. BUT, again it worked out, didn't it? And the bow did not seem to take excessive set, either, which a lot of people say oak will. So, yeah, you did fine!
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Just wanted to thank everyone who chimed in again! Bow is in solid working order(so far). I'm probably going to be shamed immensely for the following statements but first off, I've been shooting it with the paracord I had on hand(sorry). Secondly, how much of an improvement in speed and accuracy can I expect to see with the actual bow string I ordered from my local Archery/hunting shop?(2nd shame I know, I'll order string and make my own)
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Welcome Ben, ya definitely want to learn to make your own strings if you're going to be making bows. For $25 you can get two different color spools of b-50 and some serving and make a few dozen strings or some thing like that. You do the math, it will save you a ton. More money for bow wood. Fascinating thing about this hobby, all the modern tools you can have, a stack of reference books along with online forums, just to make something a cave man could've with a piece of sharp rock. Those guys don't get near the credit they deserve.
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Nice work, that looks a lot better than my first bow. I like to finish with tru-oil and johnson's floor wax. For oily tropical woods, deft lacquer spray works well. If you put a B50 string (or even better, fast flight) on there, it'll be a noticeable improvement over paracord.
Welcome to your new obsession! :BB
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Bow looks great. Congratulations!
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>:D (S)FATAL MISTAKES WERE MADE AND TRAGEDY STRUCK! Mistake #1: Leaving bow in car for 36hrs in below freezing temps. Mistake #2: After finally remembering it was out there and bringing it inside, without even thinking(moment of complete stupidity) giving it a good flex to "warm'er up"! CRACK!!! "OH NO! maybe it was just the lacquer??".....nope small crack among some chrysalling(sp?) just above the top fade! (=)? I cursed myself going to a hardwood specialty shop I found the other day where I got 3 slabs of beautiful hickory cut for my next bow and for my 2 kids first bows. IDIOT!
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hate to hear that, seems like a lot of bow snapping going on today. Maybe its that moon thing going on tonight. Good luck on the next ones.
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Thanks JW. Kinda broke my heart a bit. I know many don't even get to throw an arrow with their first bow, so I should feel grateful. I was there though!! Darn it!
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Probably had nothing to do with the cold. I'm a newbie as well. Your fades had really sharp angles, id feather them in more on the next ones. Also red oak from lowes which I used for my first several bows, sometimes it blows for unknow reasons. If ya bought good hickory from a specialty wood store you should have better luck. But do some reseach on those fades and handle area, took me a few before I got it figured out. Only my last 4 or 5 bows have been successful so I'm no expert. Got some pics if your interested.
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Thanks again. Would love to see them.
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Cant find them all but maby you can get the basic idea. You can start tapering the belly side of the riser at the 4 inch handle mark into the fades, then I remarked two lines the width of the handle down that taper and a line along the side just under the glue line. Then rasped away the wood in between if that make sense, it gives a smoother transition. My first few bows didn't snap but they took lots of set in that area. I read in a post some where a guy said if you put a board in a vice then pull from the top until it breaks it will almost always break at or very close to were its clamped into the vice. Made sense to me. Probably much better info on here some where, I was following the advice of the pros when I was making this one. Hope it helps.
(https://i.imgur.com/52M8Hbo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iltqcCa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ANJrLH0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UhErqAp.jpg)
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Well...I was trying to cling on to my poor first bow, and I thought that since it just seemed to be cracked on the surface I might be able to re-tiller and drop the draw weight and save it. Here's the crack still glaring at me at 30# 28" draw.
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Yea I don't think you could ever trust it now. But hang it on the wall of you're shop like I did it will be an inspiration for ya.
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That's too bad. But on the bright side, you can roll your experience right into making your next one :)
Mike