Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mo_coon-catcher on June 02, 2017, 10:42:46 am
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I roughed out an odd blank from what was a very straight stave. The picture is a little blurry, but in it you can see that the limbs are essentially on the same plane but the handle is angling between them. I can hear correct to make the limbs be inline with the back of te handle. Or I can shape the belly of the handle so when pushed on the limbs look and act flat to the handle. And just leave the back at an angle.
The stave started out looking straight with no twist of wonk. But as I chased a ring, more and more character started to show. So that it roller coasters a but on the side profile with a slightly snaky front profile. right now the tips seem to line up through te handle fine. I'm leaning towards doing some correcting to cut back on how sharp the angle is, but still leave a bit there. Any input on this plan? I still have a good bit of time before I work on it again. The wood cut like it was still a bit green. So I'm leaving it inside a couple weeks to dry out a bit more.
Thanks for the input,
Kyle
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Kyle, what kind of wood is it?
It looks like the limb at the top in the pic and the handle line up well but the other limb has a hoop-tee-do at the fade area . I would put it on a reflex form and heat and clamp it so both limbs come of the handle the same. That will make tillering easier. Be sure the back and ends are sealed before heating it. Now, that it is still green would be a good time to make these changes. I'd just leave it in the form until you are(and it is) ready to work then tiller away.
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Mo....I just got done straightening out a winged elm that at the stave stage and even the roughed out stage full width same thickness yet it still warped & propellered all to heck drying out in the house.Next time I do a hurry up bow from winged elm I'll clamp it down to keep it straight.
Just my 2 cents.Don't know what kind of wood you got there.I've never seen hickory do that or even osage but I'm sure there are cases that have yet though.
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yes like Beadman said, clamp it if its still a bit green,,
maybe even put a bit of pressure on it to align it bit, if the clamps get loose,, put a bit more pressure,,
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It's black locust that had been split in a barn loft for about a year and a half now. So it's not really green, green. But it cut like it wasn't wuite dry yet. From the same batch of staves I had one that cracked when heated and one that heated fine without cracking. Based off the lines on the floor, if I line up the handle, the top tip is reflexed about 3" and the bottom limb deflexes the same amount. The handle also makes things wierd by being dished in the back about 3/8". Beasman, just like you with hixjory and osage, I've never had black locust shift much when drying inside. Typically it'll crack if dried too quickly. It's been in the house about a week now and it hasn't cracked or split. So it's probably in the clear now. I think I'll do what you all suggested and make the bottom match the top. I might pull out a bit of the reflex, I feel like 3" might be a bit much for a 1 5/8" wide molle.
Thanks,
Kyle
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Yea just get it matched as well as you can.It'll make a bow with a little character yet no doubt.It might be dry enough to heat without cracking.That's your call.You should'nt need to wait too long to be dry that's for sure.Good luck.
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Kyle, I woyld without a doubt, deflex the upper limb to match the angle of the the lower, then recurve the tips to bring the nocks above the handle by an inch. If you lool at my bow i titled slightly ticked, thats what I had to work with and it is my favorite bow. Quick one too. I will see if I can find the thread and post the link.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53940.0.html
Here you go. I am actually very eager to see you make a bow like this. Staves like what you have there are gold. Please give this one some consideration. It may turn out to be the fastest sweetest bow you ever made. Lebhuntfish also made one like this ( i copied him.... kinda ;) ) and it is his fastest to date as well, its named Fury, and i will try to find that link also.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53732.0.html
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I remember those bows sleek, I maye do that to this one. It's already roughed out as a molle, so I'llhave to keep the curves shallow enough to keep the string off the limbs. But that might make it a bit smoother if I put the reflex into the levers sort of like long statics. I think I'll try that.
Kyle
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Just bring the tios uo to tje point rhe string almost touches at brace. As a molly, this bow should scream! I am excited!!!
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I finally got it bent today. The wood lost about 10g while being inside. Te way I have the clamps, as I pulled the reflex side into a deflex, it pulled out some of the deflex in the otherside to make them more even. I'm going to let the wood cool a by then warm the. Back up to help lock in the bend. Next step is to reflex the levers. I think it'll be a close match in side profile to 'the fury'.
Kyle
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that looking good,, nice bow in the making (AT)
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Not saying I would do every bow this way, but I would have just made the bow as-is. Level the handle in the tillering tree, time/tiller the limbs, just like I do with any other bow. It would have looked all cattywhompus at brace and full draw but would have behaved nicely. I like unique bows that git er done.
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This has me excited. Lookin good Kyle.
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I'll have to hit the fades and levers again. All the movement I put in the fades didn't stay, but it's a start. Same with reflexing the levers. Being that thick I didn't want to move it all at once, plus that's all the room in the form I had. The next heating I'll ahin the form to get a bit more reflex. Hopefully most of the curve stays in the levers. I'll give it an hour or so to cool, then hit the other one.
Kyle
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Boil it. Tjen once on the form, hit with dry heat to cook and set that curve in permanent. Watch for checks though.
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I got a little more curve on the levers and a bit more deflex in the one limb. The next bend will be to try and pull some more deflex out of the other limb without seperating growth rings. Then to hope everything is still in line.
Kyle
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That is looking exactly like you want it look
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I think I'll have both sides pretty well evened up after it comes after the form this last time. It's a little more gentle in the curves thatn I hoped to et out of it. But I hink I'll be happy when it's all said and done. I think yge milder curves on the levers will help keep them stabil. That's my biggest worry if I pushed them too far. I can probably bend them a bit further if need be. But it should be about 1" reflex when all done.
Kyle
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Outstanding. Now, something you will notice is with deflexed fades, the string has a leveage advantage on the limbs at brace. This requires the limbd to have more mass than usual to maintain string tensiin, which is a BIG plus when it comest to high stress designs. More working mass is good in energy storage.
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I would concentrate a little more reflex in the mid limb section. Then flip the tips back another couple of inches.
Remember when tillering you need to keep those fades fairly stiff. You only want them to bend a little at full draw. Most of your Bending section will be in the mid limb area. Alow you tips to start opening just slightly about 3 inches before full draw. If you tiller it this way it will scream!
That is exactly how I tillered "The Fury"!
Here is what I was talking about with the profile.
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w668/lebhuntfish1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-07/20160715_185959_zps52ulfhlw.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/lebhuntfish1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-07/20160715_185959_zps52ulfhlw.jpg.html)
This is the bow we made nonose last year and gave to him at mojam.
Patrick
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How wide is that stave? How long is the working section?
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I was wondering about putting some reflex into the midlimb, so essentially at the last half of the working portion and make it flow with the reflex in te levers as much as I can. I'm pretty sure I have the working portion 1 5/8" at the fades, 1 1/2" at mid limb and 1 1/4" at the fades to the levers. The levers start are 3/4" for now. I plan to taper them from 1/2" wode down to 1/4-3/8". I went for a 60/40 ratio so I think the working portion is about 15-16". I'll measure for sure when I get home.
Kyle
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That sounds about right Kyle. Cant wait to see it at mojam!
Patrick
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The limbs are 29" wth the working sections being 17.5". The widths were what I thought.
I like how the right limb looks, in fine with how the left is but it could be bent more out towards the lever. I guess o didn't have my floor tiller good enough to arch the wood into shape: I can always fix that later on te second heat treat as I get close to final tiller. It's probably way over poundage right now.
Kyle
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Dosent look too bad bud. I think, if you could get a little more reflex between the block and your c clamp you would be spot on! It should be a screamer! Can't wait to see what you get out of it!
Patrick
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Here's how it popped off the form. It looks like around 1" of reflex. So it should end up about even if everything goes right, if I don't do any more tweaking.
Kyle
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Not to bad at all!
I would still like to see a little more reflex in the actual working section of the limbs. All of the reflex I actually see is in your static levers.
Patrick
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I'll get it bending a bit. Once it gets back to about a 20" draw, I think I'll be able to make the curves stay where I want them. The limbs are still about 1/2" thick on average and should thin down to about 3/8" or a little less when done tillering. I'll use the same clamp, block setup, but use taller blocks midlimb to get more curve in the limbs. I'll try to bring the fades back a bit more to keep the tips from getting too far infront of the handle.
Kyle
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Kyke i think it looks about perfect honestly. Because black locust likes to chrsyl, id leave it be. Though I am tempted to say mor deflex and added recurve would be good..... if it were osage.... of course, you can still do that later after the now is tillered if you feel like it.
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I'll get it bending a bit. Once it gets back to about a 20" draw, I think I'll be able to make the curves stay where I want them. The limbs are still about 1/2" thick on average and should thin down to about 3/8" or a little less when done tillering. I'll use the same clamp, block setup, but use taller blocks midlimb to get more curve in the limbs. I'll try to bring the fades back a bit more to keep the tips from getting too far infront of the handle.
Kyle
Just read this. Perfect plan. Kust know, as you deflex the fades, your draw weight will drop, and despite that you recurve the tips more to offset that, the draw weigjt will not go up as much per inch of reflex as it does per inch of reflex. I havent experimented yet to find out how much difference it makes but I know it does. So, do that slowly. You may be able to even get it to 20 inches at your desired weight, and deflex it until you are at 28, then recurve it until you get your string tension up and tiller again with only a few inches left to go.
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Here's how it is looking at the moment. It's been pulled to a 20" draw and full braced. The string tracks through the center in the middle of the handle and angles so that its almost to the edge of the handle at the arrow pass. So perfect to me. Right now im debating on leaving it as is, or doing one more bending session. I'm letting the guy whose getting it out in his preference. I'm debating on three options. Leave it be, try to bring the right to match the left, or match the left to the right and reflex the outer half of the working portion to bring the tips back up. I'm leaning towards leave it be. If it was osage I would bend it without a second thought.
The right limb is the bottom, so as I leave it a bit stiff, it'll look more even. And I'm currently waiting on some super glue to dry before I sand ye back and sides clean. I left them rough till this point.
Thanks,
Kyle
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I personally would probably flip the tips a little more. But it sounds like its doing pretty good as is. Sometimes you got to leave good enough alone. Can't wait to see it!
Patrick
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You know that piece of wood better than us. If you feel you shoukd stop, then stop.