Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: blackhawk on December 20, 2011, 04:12:05 pm
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Hey all...im looking for some votes here on this stave. To me its borderline to sinew or not and I personally feel I can do either or. So id like some votes please to help make up my freaking mind. I keep swinging and favoring 45/55 in each direction.
Here's the stats on it. Its 57"total length of two recurved HHB billets. With small extending tip overlays ill be able to make it 57" ntn. Ill be pulling her out to 26" and looking for 60-70 lbs with it. Right now the limb widths are an 1 5/8+" most the way out a few inches before the base of the recurves. Either way I go the belly will be heat treated and a lil reflex will be added in at mid limbs during tempering. Right now the billets are just clamped together (not glued yet)and in this picture show 4 3/8" of setback. Ive sinewed HHB once before and wood like to try it again and just thought this might be a good candidate. So here's a shot of it...and tell me what your votes are.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-12-19_18-29-01_892.jpg)
Thanks to all who vote....chris
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Back it
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I say el' natural chicken!
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my vote is for sinew
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go with some sinew.... It will be more durable that way... Good luck.
Jon
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SINEW for sure.
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Sinew, or not to sinew, that is the question! Ok enough Shakespeare it sounds in your voice you want badly to sinew ...so sinew on my friend, sinew on ;)
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Definitely sinew. With the width, recurve, and reflex at the handle at that length I don't think it could take the amount of bending without suffering in performance.
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I say el' natural chicken!
::) PD is a character, without a doubt
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Gotta have fun while your still upright hey?
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If it were mine, I would put down at least 2 layers of sinew.
How did you recurve the tips? I tried dry heat on a dry HHB stave once and cracked the belly.
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I'll say if you live in an area with high humidity leave it natural. If you live where it is relatively dry, sinew it. ;)
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Are you going for added performance or looking to keep it together. I personally love a sinew bow. I have only made a few but when you do it for performance it makes it worth the trouble IMO.
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I'm with you pearl drum. Sinew would be the safe bet, and probably a good idea...but that's no fun ;)
Tattoo Dave
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It looks fairly reflexed now?
Won't sinew reflex it even more?
I havn't seen it bent but if the tiller looks good I'd leave it natural...
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I'll say if you live in an area with high humidity leave it natural. If you live where it is relatively dry, sinew it. ;)
Cant argue with that.
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PD and tatoodave....u just want me to push the limits....if I get more air backers than sinewers ill do it.
Yes Soy...you heard right in my tone of voice...I got the icthing to sinew again,even tho I got two bows that were sinewed back in july waiting to be finish tillered out.
Ryoon...that is a concern if left unbacked I might loose too much setback and put a hurting on the wood more.
Humidity isn't too much of a concern here Pat....yeah it gets muggy in the summer,but its ok if stored in a controlled environment between shorter shooting sessions. And by fall hunting season comes it goes down.
Jonw...its more for help in retaining setback and keeping a lower amount of set incurring...so yeah for performance.
Coaster...the billets aren't even glued together yet,there just clamped in the picture. Yes the sinew will reflex it more...which is desired >:D.....and refer to my answer to your first question for the answer to your last question...lol ;)... :laugh:
Thanks everyone so far.....keep the votes coming guys....you all decide the fate of this wood >:D
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I say sinew it and then incase the bow in intestine, that otta help with humidity, Bub
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AIR >:D
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3 layers of sinew, Chris. That's what I'd do.
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Thin air!
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I'd trap the back to 1 inch wide then sinew and make the first layer cover the whole back, 2nd layer more concentrated in the middle and 3 rd layer right down the center of the back. What I think a lot of folks forget about sinew is that on a wooden bow it is only ever strained about 1/4 of it's potential.....crown it and make it work. I've had good results with this method. Plus it keeps the amount of sinew shredding down to a minimum.
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You can go either way, but your tillering needs to be spot on if you don't back it. If it were my bow and I had the sinew shredded, I'd probably back it, but I'd feather it out before the recurves. Too big a pain to keep it stuck down through those curves and not needed there anyway.
George
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I'd trap the back to 1 inch wide then sinew and make the first layer cover the whole back, 2nd layer more concentrated in the middle and 3 rd layer right down the center of the back. What I think a lot of folks forget about sinew is that on a wooden bow it is only ever strained about 1/4 of it's potential.....crown it and make it work. I've had good results with this method. Plus it keeps the amount of sinew shredding down to a minimum.
Good idea on the trapping Mike...how come I didn't think of that?...your a smart feller. Other than the trapping,when I sinew that's how I normally do it though.
George I always feather and thin the sinew out towards the tips,but thanks for reminding.
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I would probably sinew back it 2 or 3 layers. Either way it should be a shooter,HH will handle that I feel sure backed or not if it's clean and looks like it is. :)
Pappy
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Yeah Pappy..I wouldn't have employed this design if the wood wasn't clean,straight,and dense. That's why I felt I could get away without backing. This is really primo HHB. My buddy bill already made the first bow from this lot of staves from a tree I harvested. And don't quote me,and maybe he'll chime in and correct me,but the dimensions I say are close enough and gives ya an idea of how good the wood is. He just made one about 62"ntn long 1 1/8" or 1 1/4"wide D/R design stiff handled bow that pulls 43@26"....and it took normal set and no frets. :o
good HHB is good stuff... :)
Its looking like a landslide vote for sinew so far :D
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HHB is my favorite whitewood. I would put 2 layers of sinew on it. Then if you are worried about moisture cover it with a nice snake skin and seal it with something like tru oil. Dean
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This is very new to me and a whole new concept... I don't want to rob your post but I have to ask :embarassed:
By stacking the sinew in progressively narrower rows (kind of reverse trap?), does it relieve some of the stress from the belly on the trapped limb or add more? Sorry to ask but I'm trying to wrap to brain around how it works.
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When the backs surface is crowned or rounded instead of flat there is more stress in the center or highest part. When using sinew it's a good thing to remember that it's heavier than wood, so for it to not be 'dead weight' it needs to be stressed more than a wooden back. You get the best results with it when you get it to stretch more than wood can handle(more than 1%) in real terms that means reflexing the bow lots! >:D >:D
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Coaster....some woods are significantly stronger in tension than compression,and by making the back narrower it loads more stress on the back and releives stress on the belly.
And good description mike...and yes ill reflex it by more by heat treating and letting the sinew induce even more >:D....the HHB should take it as I thinks its pretty elastic and strong in shear strength.....hmmmmm.....maybe I should get some horn and and slap it on the belly and really pull in some reflex...now were talking...lol :laugh:
And I can't argue with ya dean about HHB being a favorite whitewood :D ;)
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So much for slo bows :)
Thanks for the explanations !!
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Sinew it already!!! >:D >:D And that HHb is very dense....That bow I made from it was 1 1/8 wide! Started out with 3 inches of reflex and ended up with 2 inches of backset....after shooting in
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I would put 3 layers of sinew on her she will be a shotter no problem take care brother in Christ.
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I glued the billets together on this one into 4" of setback. Reduced the front limb profile down,trapped the back,and got her bending nice and even ready for heat treating over the caul,and ill induce another 1-2" of reflex in the working limbs. The right limb will be the top limb,and has a wee bit of prop in it which you you see by the shadow line on the belly. Its about 1/4" positive. Sweeet... ;) that's pulling 60 lbs at the 20" mark with the long string.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-12-30_10-23-42_688.jpg)
She's looking good to me..... ;)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-12-30_12-22-15_466.jpg)
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Nice :)
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looks good so far, I'd put one layer of sinew on her, a good safety precaution, will relieve some stress and up the performance ... my humble opinion,,,,
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Thanks Mike n dragonman.... ;)
So who thinks I need sinew now >:D >:D >:D :laugh:....I went a half inch further than I intended with the caul and now she has 6 1/2" of setback. 8)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-12-30_19-50-06_54.jpg)
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Blackhawk,
With that much reflex my vote would be 2 layers of sinew for insurance. Really looks nice and super fast. Excellent job, hope to see finished pics soon and hear how fast she is.
Don
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I agree , it needs some sinew....thats too much reflex for an all wood bow, it'll either break or take a big set
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Thanks Don and dragonman...oh its definitely getting sinew now...I was being sarcastic :laugh:
I got the keys to my new house last night,so the cleaning,painting,then moving ensues today and the rest of the weekend. So I more than likely wont be able to sinew it for another week or three.I gotta super busy schedule the next two weeks. Too bad cus this ones been fun and I didnt wanna stop till it got sinew,then I have to stop. My goal is to maintain at least 4"of setback with it after all is said and done.
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I like it !
Can't wait !
But go get the house done anyway !!
Wish I was close so I could help with the house !
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That bow screaming for sinew.
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Guy I wood gladly take ya up on that offer...we cleaned n painted today,n more tomorrow,and those are at the top of my "things I despise" list... >:(....... :laugh:...id rather be pounding n shredding sinew
@toomanyknots....yes...yes it is...I bet you can hear it screaming all the way from where your sitting ;D
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Had to take a day off from cleaning n painting..got her sinewed with 3 courses today. Got her propped up to 8" reflex...ill unwrap it tomorrow n prop her back up. >:D
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2012-01-02_18-23-21_747.jpg)
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To sinew, or not to sinew, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to
Sling some Arrows at outrageous Fortune,
Or to take drawknives against a Sea of osage,
And by tillering, bend them
- William Spokeshave
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Haha...good one JW ;) :laugh:...and it looks like its not a question anymore.
If I start to further add more reflex with bows ill be progressing into the realm of horn bows soon >:D....hmmm??... ::)...that don't sound so bad or hard now does it :laugh:
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Sic 'em, Blackhawk, tear 'em up!
You got a lot of guts and take some risks in your pursuit of this hobby. I admire that!
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That thing is gonna be smokin fast! 8) Cant wait to see how this one turns out :o :o Good luck man!
~Will
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No guts,no glory Jw...and good thing bows grow on trees ;)
I hope so will,and I can't wait to see this one too
And now the real fun begins...its called watching sinew dry ;)
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Looking good,if she stays together it should be a screemer. :) Good luck,looking forward to seeing this one finished as I am sure you are. :)
Pappy
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Wow :o man I wish I could come over to your house and play...if nothing else to watch the outcome of that in person .can't leave the edge o my seat, DRY SINEW DRY >:D
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This is fun. I hope she makes it and want to see a full draw ;)
Cipriano
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It is fun cipriano...look at the fun things you can do with this profile ;)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2012-01-06_16-15-44_117.jpg)
Or do you guys like this mustache better
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2012-01-06_16-17-13_697.jpg)
Then there's always this >:D
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2012-01-06_16-16-17_370.jpg)
It loosened up from being propped up at 8"...so I figured that's enough and took it off....for this time 8)
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Now give it a full 2 months to cure! Better to go slow and careful at this point!
Mucho macho moustasho!
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Lookn' fine so far. Is it to late to change my vote to sinew ?;D JW ,if Shakespeare would have written like spokeshave I wouldn't of had to been forced to read it! Josh
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Looks good to me...I'm really envious of your lack of snow down there......LOL
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Thanks guys...im always patient with waiting for sinewed bows to cure...I still got two I sinewed back in july that are waiting to be finish tillered out.
Hey bill we did have 3-4" but it quickly evaporated as always ;)
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To sinew, or not to sinew, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to
Sling some Arrows at outrageous Fortune,
Or to take drawknives against a Sea of osage,
And by tillering, bend them
- William Spokeshave
;D ;D