Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Allyn T on March 11, 2020, 01:33:09 pm
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If you had a two bows exactly the same. One had two inches of reflex but after shooting it in it no longer has the reflex, the other had no reflex but after shooting in it also has no string follow. Would they shoot the same?
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In my opinion no, the straight bow has better wood in it than the reflexed one, my experience with no set wood is it is very snappy and really spits an arrow out.
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Thank you, I had been wondering if the set would weaken the wood in general
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I don't think that it so much weakens the wood. It increases the hysteresis. I like to think of hysteresis as like a shock absorber on a car. It doesn't change the strength of the spring but it does affect the response time. Set slows down the bows reaction time.
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good analogy, Don
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It increases the loss of energy substantially .
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Interesting fellas, thanks for the input. I guess good design is important no matter what
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By the way the reason I was asking is in tbb 1 Tim Baker said in a straight bow design you can't really take advantage of hickory's high tension strength so adding reflex or recurve would do that with no danger. And I have a butt ton of hickory.
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No way of knowing unless you actually compare real bows. Many straight staves dry into reflex which isn't a real reflection of their starting point.
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in tbb 1 Tim Baker said in a straight bow design you can't really take advantage of hickory's high tension strength so adding reflex or recurve would do that with no danger. And I have a butt ton of hickory.
curious statement. by Tim, I wonder what the context was.
I suppose you could trap the back to get some improvements.
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True Pat
Deer never see set do they?
Shoot em alot, leave em strung hunting for hours , days, years they all take some set if you use it regular. When, she gives it up celebrate and reach for the new yella wood family feeder.
HH~
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Willie: Tim says hickory outshines most others and hard to break category this is not a big advantage in a straight-stave design. if made correctly that extreme ability will never come into play because hickory must take a large cast-robbing set before breaking.
In another section he says hickory on average shoots fractionally slower than other common bow woods but is harder to break steam bending a low angle recurve or retroflex into the limbs last tipward inches will raise hickory's cast at no cost to safety. In the third section he says high tension woods can be reflexed and recurved with safety and will be more tolerant of tillering errors and hidden internal flaws. this tolerance is less valuable when working perfectly straight wood but is especially valuable when working problems staves. Examples are hickory and elm. I only paid such close attention to those sections because I wanted to work with hickory.
Hedge: true and hunting is my first priority. I just want to make the best bow possible for myself.
Pat: one day if I'm proficient enough I'll do that experiment. I'd love to see what happens
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One of the best methods I have found to identify true set as opposed to wood just returning to its shape is the measure the profile immediately ( Fast as possible) after unbracing and several full draws. The less it returns to shape the better. So if you unbrace your bow and it stays the same an hour later the bow likely has very little true set.
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That's a very good idea!
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I do think your examples are too close to show much difference.
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That's prolly true, it's still interesting to learn even if the difference is negligible
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Thanks Allyn, I see That tim was speaking in generalizations, pointing out that hickory is a good candidate for the back of a laminated bow or reflexing. That last part about reflexing seems logical, but I will have to think some more before I can agree.
Anyways, the point being that challenging designs can be accomplished with hickory is reasonable. A straight limbed bow will still be a hard shooter and limb weight can be reduced with a trapping of the back. As Pat says, the differences might be slight, unless you were to make a laminated bow with some superior wood as a belly. The belly is where most woods fall down. Hickory bows have won flight shoots, but flight bows are built like hot rods, squeezing out the most performance at the expense of reliability. For hunting, of course you might prefer a bow that will not break when the big buck finally appears. I think Tim also said something about a bow with a broken back is useless, where as a bow that has taken some set can still remain a good shooter. or at least someone mentions it in the bowyers bibles.
If you have a button of hickory, you are a lucky guy, as some of us live in bow wood deserts
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Willie, one of the fallacies is that fast bows will be more likely to break. The opposite is true of flight bows and fast bows as they are barely into the plastic range so stress on the bows is minimal. Bows that are taking set are more likely to be over strained.
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Willie: I am very fortunate to have access too many varieties of bow woods. I chose hickory as my first wood because it will take more abuse before breaking and if I run out of arrows I can use it as a club :o
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Badger, I stand corrected. the flight world has benefited (new records set) from your 'no set" tillering expertise.
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If we are to believe Harry Drake's claim of 544 yards with a selfbow that may not be quite accurate. That bow plummeted in weight and performance, although it did not break.
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I have had some extremely fast bows that did plummet rather quickly. I don't have a good explanation for that except I suspect a very fast draw and release might give you a few extra shots before it damages too much. My best went something like this, keep in mind the weight was also dropping so it was only 10 grains per pound on the first shot,
215 fps-211-fps-204 fps 192 fps 184-176 167-157. That is a major drop from set. The bow actually settled in at 36# and shooting about 175 with 10 grains, starting at 50#
The English long bow I made for Josef shot over 500 yards but broke down a little in the 6 shots he made. He still set a new record with it somewhere around 450 yards.
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What was the Josef's bow made of?
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Boo backed ipe 90#
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Boo backed ipe 90#
Thank You :)!