Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Mafort on July 06, 2019, 08:20:31 am
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So I am not the best at flint knapping stone points. However I have a dremel and Some buffalo bone saddle blanks used for guitars that are 1” wide. My question is how sharp can a bone point get? Should the point be serrated some to aid in penetration? I’ve never made bone points so I’m curious as to how lethal they can be when hunting deer or something larger like elk
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A few years ago a few guys on TradGang used bone points to successfully harvest deer so I'd say they can be lethal. Shot placement, a good narrow pyramid shape and a sharp edge will be critical.
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Not sure I would use them on elk, but if you can get a real sharp edge, they should work. I think you would need a close shot, well placed, though. On the other hand, I'm not experienced at hunting elk!
Deer, you should be ok, but again the shot has to be right!
Hawkdancer
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Pop tempered bone points in a coffee can in a campfire. When they were light brown he could get them shaving sharp. I've seen bone take more than one deer with good shot placement. I've also made bone knives that got very sharp. It's completely possible.
I wish I knew what temp to heat the arrowheads to. Others may can chime in on that.
Gary scale is bone and I know those work too.
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Pop tempered bone points in a coffee can in a campfire. When they were light brown he could get them shaving sharp. I've seen bone take more than one deer with good shot placement. I've also made bone knives that got very sharp. It's completely possible.
I wish I knew what temp to heat the arrowheads to. Others may can chime in on that.
Gary scale is bone and I know those work too.
Id like to know more about this. Didnt know one could get bone shaving sharp. What is the prefered species and type of bone i wonder? I could maybe make these easier than knapping. Then add a nail in the front for weight...
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Since I'm already in this, I would assume that deer, elk, bison, or beef leg boneswould be the better the better, since those would have been the available species! Put them in the coffee can and watch them until they are light brown is the recipe
Pop tempered bone points in a coffee can in a campfire. When they were light brown he could get them shaving sharp. I've seen bone take more than one deer with good shot placement. I've also made bone knives that got very sharp. It's completely possible.
I wish I knew what temp to heat the arrowheads to. Others may can chime in on that.
Gary scale is bone and I know those work too.
Time to heat some bones! Don't give them to the dogs, though! EdwardS, is that Gray scale, or Gary Scale!
Hawkdancer
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So it sounds like the idea is to work the bone down to the arrowhead shape first and then temper it?
Till now i had never considered bone points a contender for big game. Id love to see a build along with a shaving sharp finished product.... (-S
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They found a bone point stuck in a mastodon rib here in Washington State. I got to go to the dig site on 77-78. Ed
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So it sounds like the idea is to work the bone down to the arrowhead shape first and then temper it?
Till now i had never considered bone points a contender for big game. Id love to see a build along with a shaving sharp finished product.... (-S
Sounds like I gotta get started
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Wow, this blew up.
Ok, here's how we did it. We used deer leg bones, not sure if our points were legal, but 1 inch wide by 3 long is what we settled on (Pop read about the findings of the Ashby report.) When we had a few we'd throw them in the coffee can and put it in the campfire. When they browned we would haft them (sinew and hide glue, since bone is porous) and then we could sharpen them like steel. A file at first and then a stone. Pop even used a diamond hone or a coffee cup bottom to touch them up (coffee cups are the equivalent of a barbers ceramic hone if you get the glaze off) if they weren't sharp enough.
A 3:1 arrowhead with a cut on contact design that's sharp as you can make it requires roughly 4 pounds of force to enter a deer. I think Ashby actually got that number on a bigger animal but I'll say deer to cover my tail. Only thing is they're not unlimited use. They kinda give up after a few shots, or at least they did for us.
Some of this is stuff I'm remembering from being 13 and remembering through 5 strokes. If I had bones here I'd do a build along for you guys, but I haven't taken a deer in years. I think beef bones would work great. Thicker and flatter than deer.
Gar scales were like ready made arrowheads for fish. Little sharpening and stick them on with pine pitch glue. They're basically teeth. Really wish I had some right here. Makes me miss Pop and Gramps terribly.
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Ed,
I can send you some bones, well chewed beef, and when I get the sinew, hide, and hooves off, some deer and elk!
Hawkdancer
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That would be great. What would you want for them?
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Ed,
Let's see how many I can send first. Probably just pay it forward! Some one else is sending me some saw blades and doesn't want anything back. I'll try to get some of the beef bone out this week - next week is MoJam!
Hawkdancer
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Wow, this blew up.
Ok, here's how we did it. We used deer leg bones, not sure if our points were legal, but 1 inch wide by 3 long is what we settled on (Pop read about the findings of the Ashby report.) When we had a few we'd throw them in the coffee can and put it in the campfire. When they browned we would haft them (sinew and hide glue, since bone is porous) and then we could sharpen them like steel. A file at first and then a stone. Pop even used a diamond hone or a coffee cup bottom to touch them up (coffee cups are the equivalent of a barbers ceramic hone if you get the glaze off) if they weren't sharp enough.
A 3:1 arrowhead with a cut on contact design that's sharp as you can make it requires roughly 4 pounds of force to enter a deer. I think Ashby actually got that number on a bigger animal but I'll say deer to cover my tail. Only thing is they're not unlimited use. They kinda give up after a few shots, or at least they did for us.
Some of this is stuff I'm remembering from being 13 and remembering through 5 strokes. If I had bones here I'd do a build along for you guys, but I haven't taken a deer in years. I think beef bones would work great. Thicker and flatter than deer.
Gar scales were like ready made arrowheads for fish. Little sharpening and stick them on with pine pitch glue. They're basically teeth. Really wish I had some right here. Makes me miss Pop and Gramps terribly.
This is one of my favorite posts i've read in a while. I wish my grandpa taught me that. As for beef bones, we talking femurs, legs? Outter or inner most part of the bone?
Hope to see more coming from you. Build along with coffee cup honing. I get excited just thinking about this (lol)
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this thread should be joined with this one
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36300.0.html
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Thanks Glis Glis. That should answer a few questions. :OK
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Just read the whole sticky thread from GlisGlis! Very interesting post!! Time to work some bones. Sending some to EdwardS for a "file along"!
Hawkdancer
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is there a difference in the type of bones you use? Cow vs Deer vs Elk vs etc?
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I don't think there is any real scientific evidence on that. My guess is the wild game bones would be a bit stronger due to continuous stress. Free range beef would also fall in that range. That is a w.a.g.!
I will be harvesting some deer and elk bones in a while and hope to test. My first thought was the bones should be very well dried, but then I considered that the original method would have been to use "fresh" bones from the kill. Also, cow bones were not readily available in most areas in the US. Have fun and post your results!
Hawkdancer
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I may try this someday. Thanks to those that kept this going.
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You can get beef bones in the dog food/treat dept of grocery and big lot stores, some with soft tissue attached, some bleached clean. I just made a dagger from a beef bone I got from Wal Mart.
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well untill I can knap a good point, im gona hunt with these!
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I read some were that the plains tribes used a certain part of the front leg of a Bison to make bone arrow heads. They were supposed to have killed Buffalo with those heads. I believe it.
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I just made a dagger from a beef bone I got from Wal Mart.
pictures or it never happened :) :) :) ;)
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see, it did happen! ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/CVmp5M3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RWD1s1v.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sRO2zHW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SOXzFJh.jpg)
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Nice job! Like the neck sheath!
Hawkdancer
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it happened and it's really cool !! :OK :OK :OK
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A very deadly head can be made from heat treated osage.l coppied a howard hill head 3 to 1 ratio and put it on a 11/32 cedar shaft.it went through a 120 lb doe like butter.45 # osage 27" draw 12 yard shot.the head wasnt hurt a bit but the shaft broke in half.
and know i dont have a pic thanks to photo bucket .i wouldnt be a bit afraid to use good fresh bone.