Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: GregB on June 05, 2007, 02:48:50 pm
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I've been doing quite a bit of shooting here lately, and although I'm making progress...I'm still not as consistant as I'd like to be. Shooting a bow is such a mental process for me (probably why I struggle with it ;D).
Some days I'll go out to shoot and everything is clicking and I shoot great. Other days are a struggle. I've had target panic for several years now. If I ever let a little doubt enter my mind during the process of shooting, it's a fair bet I'm going to be off. If I can maintain my concentration through the shot, the arrow usually ends up where I want it.
When I miss, it's often by a wide margin due to flinching my arm. Arrows end up low/right of the aiming point. I've tried exercises such as drawing and not releasing the arrow, and also shooting with my eyes closed. They do seem to help...I just havn't had the patience to practice them for long.
What is really frustrating to me is that I have confidence that my bowarm is initially where it should be for an accurate shot prior to release. I just can't always hold that arm solid through the release without sometimes flinching. I have no trouble reaching anchor, just in what comes afterwards. The bow weight doesn't seem to be a problem either. Just a mental thing... :(
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Try havin some of yer plum wine first. ;)
If that don't work maybe its yer string have Pat make ya one I hear their so dang good that they
immediately improve everything from shootin better to curing what ails ya ;D
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Greg, here are a few things that have worked for me in the past. Shoot only one arrow, retrieve it and shoot again. Sometimes having other arrows in the target creates a false target and that's where my arrows go. If you find your shooting is less than par, give it up for the time being. Don't creat bad habits that are quite difficult to loose. Gice yourself a game plan,ie concentrate, draw, anchor, release and followthrough. Use a montra that works for you. Sometimes I find that when my shooting is off I will concentrate on the target and push my bow out towards the target come to anchor and shoot instead of holding the bow up and pulling the string to anchor...and, like Dana said, if you need a magic string, just let me know! ;D Pat
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..........Maybe somebody will explain to me what target panic is ? Not a brief explanation but an in depth explanation of what it is supposed to be.......bob
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..........Maybe somebody will explain to me what target panic is ? Not a brief explanation but an in depth explanation of what it is supposed to be.......bob
Greg, that is not what I would call target panic. Just mental doubt or mental fatigue.
Bob, I cant give you an in depth explanation without talking in circles. You get thinking too much and your adrenalin gets pumping and you cannot shoot accurately. Basically like buck fever, but with any target. It could be caused by a large buck, or can be caused by people watching if you aren't used to shooting in public. Anything that causes you anxiety and keeps you from shooting good. Justin
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..............So your description of "target panic" is anything that inteferes with concentration on the task at hand (shooting arrow). Is that correct ?....bob
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Well,,,, anxiety and adrenalin causing you to miss would be closer. You could be concentrating, but be shaking so bad you miss. Like I said, buck fever would be a form of target panic. But I guess it could be caused by just about anything. Justin
I told you CIRCLES.
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Jeez bob ya took all the fun outa that topic, thats way to clear of an explanation ;)
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Bob,It's more like when you get to target number 12 out of twenty and you have a super score.Kinda like on your way to a perfect score bowling.
You start thinking about every way you can screw up your shot on the next target till you just go to Sh$#%.Like you said though,you just quit having fun and lose all your focus that you didn't realize you had to start with.BECAUSE you were having fun till you got serious and competitive.
Wine does help ,and one of Pat's world famous strings would probally help with the confidence.
P.S.are those strings expensive?
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Good question Eddie. Pat told me that I wasn't going to get one. :'( We didn't even get to discuss price. Justin
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Well maybe we could get on the Christmas list?I think it would improve my shooting.
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I don't know if it will improve my shooting, but it certainly cant get any worse. :-\ Justin
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Justin, I think it's target panic..although with maybe some mental fatique mixed in. I will get to double clutching at full draw sometimes. Yesterday I had one really bad flinch and released the arrow (sometimes I can keep from releasing when I flinch), the arrow hit the ground in front of the target low/right from about 15 yards distance. :( I have one of those large foam targets like they were selling at the Classic, and I was shooting for the center of it.
Pat, I think you're probably right. My friend Anthony has been telling me to shoot with just one arrow for a while now. I've been shooting with four arrows, the first three may be in there tight and I get to thinking ...just one more now. Well, you know what usually happens then. :) Maybe one of your famous strings might be just the confidence I need? ;D
Bob, trust me...the less you know about target panic the better off you'll be. Don't know how long you've been shooting a bow, but if you shoot a lot for many years like I have...chances are you might find out sometime. Probably exercises you could practice as part of your shooting process to help keep from ever getting it.
Dana, I'd probably turn into a wino trying to beat it if I continually knocked the edge off with plum wine. ;) I think I'll save what I have left for Marie and Sarah to get saused on, I mean enjoy! ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D...................................bob
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Greg I shoot so poor I don't worry about target panic, I feel blessed when ever I hit something even if I was'nt aimin at it.
Always be ready with the comment "I was aiming there what a awesome shot" ;D
I don't think you should give Sarah and Marie anymore wine, look what it did to them last time, the whining went on for weeks. ;D
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Yeah Dana, we should all be very quiet...and maybe they won't hear us mentioning wine. ;) ;D
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greg im in the same position . when i hunt i snap shoot . from the face shoulder or hip. and i kill what i look at because the concentration is there. i want to kill the animal and its all thats in my head. target shooting is another story. i suck. but im working on it. if your bowarm is moving it is more than likely caused by a sloppy loose. get yourself to the point where you can draw on target and hold for a count of 3 or more. i usually dont go more than 3. do this at 10 -15 yards. when you start to feel some control and feel like loosing the arrow dont open your hand to loose the arrow. squeeze your upper back and shoulder muscles together. this will cause your hand to come back straight rather than pull away from your face. give it a try it works. also shoot distance occasionally. you need a very clean loose to be consistent at 50-60 yards. but dont get hung up onthe longer distance stick to 10-15 till you feel you have control.
bob my form of target panic is different from most . i seem to need to hold anchor when im shooting targets but the brain wants to hunt so as soon as i hit anchor the fingers open. im no where near as bad as i am after hunting season but i always work on form thoughout the year. peace
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.................Guess I am so used to huntin' that I loose without thinkin'. Targets I am ok but I really only care 'bout huntin' game. Oh well, difference between huntin' and archery I guess ;) :P...........bob
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Bob, thinking has never been a huge problem for Greg either. I heard his wife say he does it so rarely that she was glad to hear he was doing it at all. ;D Justin
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Justin, you crack you up! ;D
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Greg, although I love bows and archery, because of a bad shoulder it has been a few years since I shot a bow. However, I shoot quite a bit when it comes to handguns and rifles, and although the delivery systems are obviously pretty different, there are some parallels. First, the advice to just give it a rest is spot on. I am a darn good shot with a rifle, but my pistol shooting flucuates from being downright impressive to downright sad. When I go out, I work on fundamentals, and if it doesn't happen in the first 20 shots or so, I put them down. Frustration is severely detrimental to marksmanship, be it bow, rifle or atlatl. The second thing I do is that I purposely work on things that I know I am bad at. Because I go into it expecting only incremental improvement, my frustration levels stay very low, and my skill levels build, albeit slowly. A year ago, I couldn't hit a paper plate at 50 yards with my handgun with anything approaching frequency or accuracy. Now, I know that I can do it moderately well. Third, and I mentioned it above, I focus on the fundamentals. Whenever I take shots, I have a little checklist I go over in my head. Before I pull the trigger, I know that I am setting myself up for a succesful shot, and when I don't succeed, I have a basis for examination on what went wrong. I should think that prinicipal would be the same with a bow as it is with a firearm. At a certain point, things become easier. As I mentioned, I am a good shot with a rifle, and thats the result of thousands upon thousands of shots with everything from a .22 on up. I don't mean to imply that I am some Olympic champion shot, but I will say that good marksmanship comes easy to me with a rifle now. Again, this translates to the bow because marksmanship is as much about repetition as it is about technique. I have seen guys with fairly bad technique shoot like you wouldn't believe because they shoot a ton. I am obviously not trying to advocate poor technique, but the old saw practice makes perfect is never more applicable than when it comes to marksmanship. I know this isn't exactly primitive, but it seems to me that the methods behind building the skills are pretty much the same. Also, and this is key, remember to have fun. It's silly to say it, but if your not having a good time shooting your bow, whats the point? It sounds so new-agey to say this, but if your having fun, your probably in a positive state of mind, and if you have that, even a "bad" day of shooting your bow will be useful.
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Hello Timbokhan, I agree completely with your comments...consistent shooting =doing the exact same shooting process throughout each shot. I'm 46 years old and am trying to recapture my shooting abilities when I was in my mid-twenties. Although I thought at that time my technique was good, I'm not sure now how good it was. But like you said, I shot my traditional equipment a "ton" back then. I would probably average at least an hour of constant shooting a day, and often more then that. And at that time I didn't have target panic at least as I do now, I would occasionally do what I call "double clutch", which would be a slight forward flinch of my string hand while at full draw. I know I was stronger then, and I'm sure that made problems easier to overcome.
I just finished a 30 minute or so shooting session. Started out by stretching, then shooting 1 arrow at a time from various distances. My concentration was nonexsistant this morning, with the result of a scattering of arrows across the target. I might should have quit then, but I hate to stop shooting on a negative note. So I got up close to the target and just concentrated on drawing, anchoring, and attempted to squeeze my back and shoulders together while having my eyes closed. Getting the visual out of the picture seems to help me concentrate on technique. I couldn't get the hang of getting a clean release by attempting this with the back/shoulders. I'm afraid part of my problem is sometimes plucking the string as well as collapsing with my bow arm as a symtom of target panic and flinching. What is so frustrating is that I have been a very good shot in past years, and in my mind I'm thinking "why can't you do this?"! I'm going to keep shooting and practicing some of these techniques of stepping through the process in my mind. I do sometimes shoot extremely well even now when everything clicks. The sound of wood hitting wood and being able to pull all your arrows with one hand if you'd like feels good when it happens. Doesn't happen for me often now. :)
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Greg, everyone has given good advice but the more I think on this the more I believe that some if not most of
yer problem is that yer overthinkin this and have fixated on the problem thereby compounding the the problem.
You so want to shoot well that when you don't you get fixated, uptight, ticked off at yourself in other words all stressed out.
Maybe you should take a break for a week then stay away from all targets including the 3D. Take a relaxing walk with a nice light easy shootin
bow, then as you stroll along all relaxed pop a shot off at something, don't think just shoot. If ya miss don't worry just continue along then try again.
Didn't I mention that ya should relax and make it fun becuse if I didn't I have no idear what I just said ;D
Relax and enjoy Greg!!!
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Thanks Dana, I don't shoot 3D a lot because the competitive nature of it makes my problem worse. Having others around while I'm shooting tends to screw with my concentration even worse. I guess I am trying hard, I've just been fighting this for so long now...I wish I could just get over it!
Maybe stump shooting would do me good... :)
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Greg, competition does the same to me, which is why I rarely shoot matches. I gave up golf for that reason to! Bows, firearms and golf are all the same from teh perspective of competition, because it really just boils down to what you do, not what the team does. Moreover, none of these sports is something that you can just magically get good at, or be consistently lucky enough at to be successful. It's a wierd thing for me, because I am a great team-sports player and reasonably competitive. When I am on my own, my competitivness jumps up about nine orders of magnitude.
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Did someone mention Greg's wine?? :o Dang-it if my porch ain't still empty! >:( What's up with that? :( ;D ;) I did win Pat's "guess the backing" contest maybe he will send me some of his magic string and I can hold it hostage until Greg agrees to trade it for some wine.... 8)
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Did someone mention Greg's wine?? :o Dang-it if my porch ain't still empty! >:( What's up with that? :( ;D ;) I did win Pat's "guess the backing" contest maybe he will send me some of his magic string and I can hold it hostage until Greg agrees to trade it for some wine.... 8)
Marie I'm going to have to do this on behalf of Marc. It is "one of his magic strings", not "some of his magic string." ;) Justin
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Marie, I think you must have misunderstood someone's comment...they had probably said something along the line of... "Greg's whining about his shooting again!"...since you have "wine" on the brain instead of your front porch ;D, it was a natural error on your part. ;)
Of course I fully realise that you want wine on your front porch so that it can be transferred to your wine glass, unless you prefer it like the guys from the club...straight from the bottle! :)
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Greg, Marie don't need no stinking wine glass! ;D While she's away we can all talk about her. She'll never know! ;) Pat
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Pat I am always watching!! 8) Greg, I just need a long straw (one that touches down to the bottom ;) )...I will swish it around so I can fully appreciate the aromas and the flavors etc. I promise. ;D
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If she gets a bottle, the I want one .......but I need a glass
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And make sure the glass is fine crystal and matches her tiara! ;)
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Greg I've been fighting TP hard since 2002.I have a trophy with that date on it(thats how I know). I have not had an anchor for years in competition.I am determined to beat it and just bought a clicker.Now if I CAN ONLY GET THE D_ _ed think to click I may shoot well again.
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Greg, I just need a long straw (one that touches down to the bottom )...I will swish it around so I can fully appreciate the aromas and the flavors etc. I promise.
Marie, hope that bottle doesn't have any sediment in it. :) You have such fine taste in wine, that I'm sure it won't. ;D Marie, you'll have to post a picture of Sarah wearing her tiara so we can match the wine glass. :)
Mamba, I think I need to wear a rubber band on my wrist and pop it every time I flinch...I'm sure that would help! ;D
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Perhaps a jock strap Greg ;D Yooouuccchhhh ;)
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Perhaps a jock strap Greg Yooouuccchhhh
Dana, on second thought...I think I'll just keep the target panic. ;D
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There's always something worse eh Greg ;D
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I can't concentrate for much shooting targets, and that leads poor shooting and subsequently bad form, or vice versa ;D
I tryed to make my target shooting a bit more challenging/fun and more close to hunting shooting.
this is how I set up my target range,
with a big backstop of sand, or bales or something similar, I get 1/2 dozen tennis balls and string them either hunging from trees or a rope tied to 2 points if there's nothing to attach them from, every tennis ball is at a different hight, this make every shot a new target, use blunts so they fall to the ground and they are not in the way (you can shoot dozens of arrows at a time like this)
when you connect it's really a satifying sound ;D, and now is the fun part, after you hit a ball you have a moving target, this is great practice, you have to concentrate so much that you have no time to overthink your shot.
I can get hours of fun shooting targets this way, when usually I get bored after 1/2 dozen arrows on a normal target, even 3D
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Manny, I do a similar thing with a single magnolia seed pod hanging from a rigid conduit frame. Shooting at that moving target really does help with your concentration and learning the flight of your arrow. Pat
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If you want to have fun.find a field and blow up a bunch of ballons and tie them.Then throw them out all over at different yardages and let the wind move them around while you shoot.
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I had a visitor yesterday evening at my practice session. I've got grape vines in my back yard and had a doe come running across the yard to eat grape leaves. She got within 15 yards of me at one point...had some nice lookin' back straps on her the best I could tell. ;)
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I'm knocking on wood while typing this...but I think I might be making some progress with my shooting. :) Don't really know what is helping, most likely just a lot of practicing. Although I'm still flinching some at full draw, I can tell that it's not as often or violent here lately.
I'm hopeful... ;)
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Greg did Marie give ya some advice? ;D
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No, but I'm sure she could advise me on shooting as well as field dressing a deer!
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I have LOTS of good advice! ;D But I have no wine on my front porch >:( . So all I will say is "buy low sell high" ! ;D That's all your getting for now! ;D