Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on February 04, 2014, 07:02:19 pm
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Well, DUMB ERC was a dumb name, so I changed it ;)
I in no way meant disrespect to anyone.
OK, you might remember this one that lost reflex after sinewing and then came back to 2.75" reflex. I put a layer of sinew with TB3 and it again lost a little and then ended up at 2.5" after tiller. Came out at 57# @ 28" and I like the way it shoots. 62" t-t ERC. I called it DUMB because as some of the more experienced members have pointed out, this piece of wood may have been better as firewood. I think I got the need to try to make a bow from not very prime wood out of my system. But, I cut this when I first started gathering wood and I had to try it. Maybe I should a called it Unfinished Business.
I have to say I agree with the guys who said they wouldn't put the time into this piece of wood that I did. If I had done this much to a prime stave I would have no doubts at all about it's trustworthiness. Still glad I did it though and learned some from it.
Decrowned back and lots of knots filled with sawdust and super glue. Left 'em alone on the belly side. 1.25" reflex when just unbraced and back to 2.25 so far.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zps21d730aa.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zps21d730aa.jpg.html)
4 layers sinew total and a layer silk for the cover with bison horn overlays and sinew wraps dyed in coffee and hibiscus tea. Goat hide strike and wrapped on lower riser to accent the beads my sister did long ago and they lost their backing leather; finally found a use for them.
Some soft old rope I untwisted for handle saturated with TB3.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/2ba20fe5-d50d-4c95-9b37-247c30fbff20_zps82d9901f.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/2ba20fe5-d50d-4c95-9b37-247c30fbff20_zps82d9901f.jpg.html)
Finished with super glue coat and 3 coats tru-oil. Probably gonna pumice it someday but happy enough for now. Thanks for looking.
Marco DuBois
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/0b9a8ddd-8118-427f-ae95-31640cc95de1_zpsc3f3e2a6.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/0b9a8ddd-8118-427f-ae95-31640cc95de1_zpsc3f3e2a6.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zpse7c586a4.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zpse7c586a4.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew008_zps162a7d82.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew008_zps162a7d82.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew007_zps7de78a59.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew007_zps7de78a59.jpg.html)
somebody snuck in here
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew006_zpsae706fad.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew006_zpsae706fad.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew005_zpsc916b7e3.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew005_zpsc916b7e3.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew004_zpsf056be8b.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew004_zpsf056be8b.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew003_zps93c89b72.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew003_zps93c89b72.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew002_zpscb2a2a15.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew002_zpscb2a2a15.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/ERCsinew001_zpse63ee28f.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/ERCsinew001_zpse63ee28f.jpg.html)
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What wood? really cool bow!
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That's a real nice cedar bow! Love the finish work :)
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Nice work on that one, very cool looking bow.
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Wow! That is so very pretty! Love the way the silk looks on the back, ...and the beadwork is just the right touch!
OneBow
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That's one sweet looking bow right there..... :)
DBar
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Wow, you look way younger than I thought you would! Great job on that bow , little fella! ;)
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wow,that's cool!beauty finish! 8)
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Man Doobs! That is gorgeous! You did such a nice job on it that I hate to mention this, but...the silk severely diminishes the effectiveness of the sinew. Silk is very strong, but it doesn't stretch much. The sinew's main advantage is how far it will stretch and snap back. This extra stretch of the sinew relieves stress on the belly as well as taking the tension load. By putting silk over it, you have turned your wonderful sinew into extra mass. Don't get me wrong, its absolutely beautiful and I'm sure it shoots great. However, if you leave the silk off the next one, I'm pretty sure that you will really be impressed. Once again, absolutely gorgeous bow! Josh
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AH DANG! I never thought of that!
Thanks for the truth though Josh. Much appreciated. Maybe I will scrape off the silk. Wouldn't be too hard to do. Go over it with some TB3 and crushed charcoal instead.
Do you think that would require work on the belly side or could I get away with just reworking the back as light as possible?
Wow, you look way younger than I thought you would! Great job on that bow , little fella! ;)
Thanks, I may be really good at this when I grow up ;)
Thanks Will, yeah I tried to step it up a level on this bows finish.
Thank you DBar.
Thanks BB and onebow.
Thanks SS and bushboy.
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No way man! Don't be for doing anything but shooting this bow. Simple rule...if it ain't broke don't fix it. That info was purely for future reference. If you try scraping that off, you'll have a mess for sure. ERC is light enough to counter the weight of the sinew. So I'm guessing its still pretty snappy. Enjoy it and make another! Josh
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10-4 I'll shoot it and see how long it will hold up with all those knots ;D
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Beautiful! I love the colour contrast of the silk/ sap and heartwood.
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Love it - very nice work. Bet it zips an arrow too.
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Thank you MW, I'm no expert but it seems to be pretty fast.
Thanks Robert. I couldn't resist the contrast on this wood even though there was better bow wood in the garage.
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Thanks to you guys with experience for the help and advice.
I agree with what BH said in a PM. Not exact wording but something like "Good wood makes great bows and bad wood makes great bowyers". I am not near great but I did learn a lot from this.
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ttt
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That's really nice.
That statement about silk not stretching is an odd one. Silk actually stretches pretty easily in a thin layer. As easily as sinew. It's not going to be slowing it down any more than a layer of paint.
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Gorgeous makes me want some erc
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I think it's a great looking bow . Nice job !
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Silk will stretch the same percentage of its length regardless of its thickness. The only difference thickness will have is how much force it will take to stretch it to the point of rupture. The percentage of stretch that silk will tolerate before rupture is far less than sinew. The paint bit is for lack of a better word, just silly. I don't see where it would have any thing to do with comparing sinew to silk and how far they stretch. Unless I completely missed your point, which I hope is the case. BTW...I don't see anything that I would consider offensive Doobs. Josh
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Where are you getting this info from? Have you tried stretching a typical silk thread?
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Glad I had a second chance at this one. I missed it before. Very impressive Sir!
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i seriously doubt the "dumb" comment bothered anyone...sometimes it just takes a couple days for folks to respond...that is all.
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Great bow. I love the inclusion of bead work. how is the beadwork attached? The design may alarm some but many of us know it as a traditional design from several cultures.
What's up with the rawhide wrap below the beadwork- what is it there for?
Most of all I love the quote "Good wood makes great bows, but bad wood makes great bowyers"
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Thanks Pat, Joe and Paul
Silk will stretch the same percentage of its length regardless of its thickness. The only difference thickness will have is how much force it will take to stretch it to the point of rupture. The percentage of stretch that silk will tolerate before rupture is far less than sinew. The paint bit is for lack of a better word, just silly. I don't see where it would have any thing to do with comparing sinew to silk and how far they stretch. Unless I completely missed your point, which I hope is the case. BTW...I don't see anything that I would consider offensive Doobs. Josh
OK, thanks Josh.
Glad I had a second chance at this one. I missed it before. Very impressive Sir!
Thank you Bob.
i seriously doubt the "dumb" comment bothered anyone...sometimes it just takes a couple days for folks to respond...that is all.
OK thank you dog. I can be a little impatient sometimes. Don't know why it matters to me what you all think, but for some reason it does ;)
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Sweet. I love the looks of that cedar. Nice bend on those limbs also.
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Great bow. I love the inclusion of bead work. how is the beadwork attached? The design may alarm some but many of us know it as a traditional design from several cultures.
What's up with the rawhide wrap below the beadwork- what is it there for?
Most of all I love the quote "Good wood makes great bows, but bad wood makes great bowyers"
Thanks fro the compliment Aaron, good eye on the beads and you're right. No nazi intonations intended here. I put the rawhide under the beads cause I thought the beads would show better than on the black silk. Got the idea while cutting the strike piece.
I used contact cement liberally under the beads and then a little cyano around the edge the next day, then polished em a little to get any glue off.
Thanks Bob. Pretty stuff aint it?
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Good job with a tricky wood. I must say though you look like you are in some sort of disguse! Sunglasses with a big boiler suit and hidden face! ;D
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Where are you getting this info from? Have you tried stretching a typical silk thread?
My info comes from my own trial and error. Yes, I have stretched silk thread, silk cloth and sinew. The sinew stretches farther and maintains its elasticity better than silk will. However, there is more to it than that to be considered here. Most sinewed bows are nowhere near to working the sinew at its max. This bow is probably only using half the potential of the sinew. And I'm just guessing that based on the dimensions and draw. If that guess is remotely close, then the layer of silk is probably not overly strained either(not maxed out in elasticity). If that be the case then the silk probably is not effecting the sinew in this case. So I will concede the point on this one. Sorry Doobs, it would appear that I spoke out of turn here. However, I still maintain that this bow is a beautiful piece of work. Well done sir! Josh
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Great work doobs. I like that unstrung profile and glad to see you made it through to the end. Persistence is a great trait to have in this hobby.
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Good job with a tricky wood. I must say though you look like you are in some sort of disguse! Sunglasses with a big boiler suit and hidden face! ;D
Just hidin' from the cold Mike. Thanks for the kind words. I think you told me on this early on when it was losing reflex from sinewing that I should tie it into reflex. I think that would have maximized the sinew a lot better like Josh is talking about. Live and learn and thanks again.
Hey Josh, thanks again.
I see now that I could have gotten a little more of my moneys worth from the sinew but I am gonna enjoy this one and see how it holds up for future reference.
Thanks Mr. Pearlie, Persistence or addiction???
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I didn't mean that as a criticism Doobs. Most of my sinewed bows aren't any closer to maximum strain than yours is. I was just pointing out that I stand corrected on this one, but that a higher strained bow would be more of a problem. Josh
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Where are you getting this info from? Have you tried stretching a typical silk thread?
My info comes from my own trial and error. Yes, I have stretched silk thread, silk cloth and sinew. The sinew stretches farther and maintains its elasticity better than silk will. However, there is more to it than that to be considered here. Most sinewed bows are nowhere near to working the sinew at its max. This bow is probably only using half the potential of the sinew. And I'm just guessing that based on the dimensions and draw. If that guess is remotely close, then the layer of silk is probably not overly strained either(not maxed out in elasticity). If that be the case then the silk probably is not effecting the sinew in this case. So I will concede the point on this one. Sorry Doobs, it would appear that I spoke out of turn here. However, I still maintain that this bow is a beautiful piece of work. Well done sir! Josh
In a lab type test silk actually stretches something like 3%. They used to pre-stretch the old silk backing strips in the pre-glass days so that the silk was under more tension and doing actual work.
Just laying it on top of sinew lets it be very inert and easily stretched, allowing the deeper sinew to still do its job. It would need to be something like low stretch glass cloth over the sinew to shut it down and make it act like a core instead of a backing.
I agree that the sinew could be working harder by inducing reflex during sinew application. Especially with TB glue.
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I really appreciate the honest expression of experience and the opinions of both you fellas. I think you both make some valid and interesting points.
That's what it's about right? Learning from the guys that been there before us...and then going ahead and having to try it our way anyway ;)
I'd still be snappin sticks in half and giving up if not for all the folks here.
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Great looking bow man! Lots of great character!
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Now that's a looker,very nice. :)
Pappy
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nice work way to stick with 'er
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Thanks PA, Pappy and Peacebow. We'll see how she holds up over time ;)