Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: crooketarrow on April 16, 2011, 10:40:53 am
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I was setting out in my shop last night knapping. Really nice osiden heads to hunt with. Earyer in the day Id found a head and a broken tip at a camp site I check out once in a while. I have a lot of real heads and they sure a ugly I wouldn't even hafe them on and arrow. I sure wouldn't want to live by them. I know they only had anter but I've turner out some really nice heads useing just anter. Makes you wander why the big stink over useing the right broadhead.
Then WHY IN THE WORLD and you know some were really good a knapping. They have to figger out that the more even the head the better they fly even fi they diid keep it close. WHY
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materials available, skill level, time. tools available, quarry, environment. all of these affect the finished point. one thing to sit in comfort and work nice material. completely different if there is a lack of resources and tools. im convinced that a lot of the rougher pieces never saw an antler tool and were done completely with hammerstones. also if there was a lack of resources anything pointy with a decent edge would of been used. they wouldnt of had the option to toss it away and look for a better piece. one other factor too is was it an arrow head. may of been a dart point. if its a dartpoint the shear weight of the projectile does the work and the rough rock just does the tearing.
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I have thought about that for a while also. Guess it has to do with the knappers level of skill, material, purpose of the tool. Could be a reworked point for another use. Maybe he was having a bad day knapping. I can even see children modifying a point or even trying to knap. The only thing I have found for certain is the no matter what it looks like I'll give it a home!
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I think because we look at knapping from a totally different perspective. Most of us are more hung up on appearance than function when it comes to knapping. They were making expedient disposable tools, and all they cared about was that it had a sharp edge and would fit in a stick. It was probably going to break or be lost after one shot anyway. We don't go to a lot of time and trouble making aesthetically pleasing GI can openers or carpet knife blades. Those guys could knap really well when they took a notion to make pretty stuff and show off, like the Ross blades, dance swords, turkeytail cache blades, and a lot of other intricate stuff that was more ceremonial than utilitarian. So I think it was more of a not worrying about how a tool looked thing than a lack of skill thing. We're also hung up on trying to make points and blades as thin as possible; but if you're actually using and abusing them, the thicker the better as long as the edges are thin and sharp and it'll fit into whatever shaft/handle you're hafting it to.
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Hillbilly makes a good point. Neolithic life was probably no picnic, they didn't have "leisure time" like we do, or hobbies. One thing I get from modern people using stone points to hunt is that they are much more selective on their shots than when they are carrying modern steel points, simply because they are likely to never use that point ever again. Just like we are more likely to toss a disposable razor down on the hard sink surface without a care, when we'd carefully wipe down, oil, fold up, and store in a velvet bag a handmade, a damascus steel straightrazor with mammoth ivory handles.
Mind you, I'm no trained ethnologist that specializes in paleo cultures. Just a guy that wants to replace his disposable razors with a damascus steel straight razor with mamoth ivory handles and a nice black velvet bag to store it.
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These are all good points and I've thouht them all out, BUT STILL. Being materal was hard to get for some. I could under stand but lack of materal you'd think they'ed use it more wisey when you life depended on it. Others set up work camps at out cropings of chert ,nice chert. These were work camps so time wasn't the problem,materal wasn't the problem. I've dug these and still only found suckie points. Some only hammer stones were used other were pressured flaked.
Only thing I can figger is it's tradition they worked for 1,ooo's of years like that. But then again you'd think some inivetin person would start makeing nicer points and others would follow. It rarey happen at lest I haven seen it though my years of diging and pick ups.
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Most of the "arrow heads" we find today were their trash. They had been sharpened down to the discard stage, then taken off the arrow, dart, spear, or knife handle and given to the kids to play with. Also, these tools saw hard usage in their brief working life span. Bill
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Here in the prairie of South Dakota the finer made stone points are from an earlier period, later points were more utilitarian. I have six points that are from a later period. While they aren't pretty by any means, they are all certainly functional. One was made from a chalcedony that occurs in the area, it develops in the soils as thin slabs around a quarter to three-eights thick. This one isn't even bifaced, it's SINGLE BEVEL! Dr. Ashby would be proud.
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I was told that here in nor cal the natives were some of the best knappers around, but the rock hound's used to find huge piles of points that maybe the tip broke off while making it and they just chucked them, their feeling was if it broke it wasn't meant to be, some of these were knifes that easily would have made something else, but they through them away, differant mind set I quess, Bub
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I agree with all the possibilities above, and have also thought some were preforms, others like it was said before were no longer utilitarian, Also as for the lousy looks of some, like it was said, if it would cut, and would fit a shaft, be it an arrow, or atlatl, or whatever, it was used. as for beautiful work, look at ishi's work, and others, and then come south, and look at the unbelievable work, or coral, and chert, like the Newnans, and Hillsboro's, and other styles. Plus there was a lot of trading going on. Look at the Folsums, or the other fluted point that I can't think of at the moment. They were thought for many years to only be a lower western style, and not destributed anywhere else, till they were found on the east coast, down about four to six feet in river banks, and washouts. Also I think a lot of the ugly ones were either unfinished, or made by beginners, and or kids. The way my stuff looks, they could have been made by some of my ancestors. ;D As yet, I am unable to make pretty, but I can make functional, which is what the main goal is when you are after something to eat. Look at some od the flakes we get when we are spalling, some of them would take very little to be fundtional with any flaking at all. I personally think that they did have some liesure time. Once you got food, and shelter, you pretty much had all the bases covered, till the food started getting low. ;)
Anywho, that is my dollar two fifty's worth of opinion, there are just too many varying situations, in which some of the points that are found, got where they are, and in the condition they were in.
Wayne
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All good but not in my area. I FIND GOOD USEABLE POINTS BUT IT STOPS THERE the rest they must have RODE DOWN TO 7-11 and broke out the BUD that day. Wish I'd lived in there day I could have made some real money. WELL FURS
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The only thing we know for shure it that they were capable of manufacturing points & blades with a skill level that modern knappers are striving to reach. Just because they aren't often found in an area dosen't mean they couldn't do it. There mindset was different than ours. 10000 yrs from now someone will be collecting bottel caps wandering why we took the time to make them just to throw them away. It's like asking how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie rollcenter of a tootsie pop...The world may never know.m
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Ah-one
Ah-tu-Whooo
Ah-thrrree
*crunch*
Three.
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Good lithic matertial, good points. Poor lithic material , poor points. I think they all understood the techniques for producing beautiful, symmetrical points; they just didn't all have good mateial to work with all the time, except in certain areas of the country.
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I tend to agree with the thought that they worked with what they had. Think about how hard it is to get good rock. We have cars and trucks we can hop in and drive long distances to get better rock. Or get it via the internet now days. But if you only had your two feet to get you around, then good rock may have been hard to come by. So they worked with whatever they could get their hand on. And if all you have is crappy rock like we have here in Virginia, then your work is not going to be all that pretty. I would think they worked it to be functional and as long as they could put meat on the table, it was probably good enough.
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i wasnt gonna put my two cents in on this as its all speculation and opinions
but i i have seen beautiful ISHI points,and also some that he made that were purley for utlitarion purposes
they look alot like most of mine,usefull but not real pretty
all of his that i have seen were made from the same material
black obsidion
so i think it comes down to what the intended purpose of the item being made
determined its look
the wintu style point that ISHI is known for(to my understanding)he made this type as gifts for friends
his hunting points were just basic side/corner or basel notch points
well there it is, my two cents worth
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I don't think it was the quality of the stone that determined how pretty the point would be. About 80% of the points I find are Tallahatta quartzite. As a lot of you guys know, Tallahatta can be a bear to work. The points they made range from real pretty to plug ugly. And some are the same type of point, so I think there are several factors that determined how pretty the point came out. One that nobody has mentioned is their tool kit, in the summer, it would be pretty difficult to replace that worn out antler bopper or pressure flaker. Bill
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Ok everything else aside I think they were more than capable of manufacturing points that have been surpassed by only a rare few. all have excellent points to bring to the table.
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I make hunting points. That is really the reason I started knapping. When I make a point that looks like a historic point it is a fluke. My points do not look like Jesse's or Shannon's. ;D
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One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that some of the points were obviously made by children just learning to knap and others were made by older men whose eyesight had long since lost its acuity. I don't think their local medicine men were up to date on the latest Lasik surgery or the cataract lens replacement surgery. Just a wild guess.
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I think you have to make a whole lot of crappy points before you start making good ones. Children would act like adults and make points to be sure, so it stands to reason that there would be more beginners than pros. If you look at all the people that paint pictures many are good enough but few are truly great. I have made many bad points and many more I tossed across the yard in frustration. I only have a couple that are nice. So teaching the skill to a large group of people would most likely equal a lot of junk. A poorly made fence still works however maybe not as well. I just think the learning curve would produce a vary large number of poorly made points. I think not all knapper would develop skill.
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I was sitting in a camp (rendezvous) one time, working on a few points for my trade blanket. I was getting frustrated with myself because I`d broken more than I actually managed to finish into pretty, symetrical, thin "money points". I kept chasing that little bugger in the middle that messed with my defination of "done"... you know, that little hinge, those annoying hangnails, that little stack 1/2 way up the point...
A good friend sat there watching me getting more p/o`d with the results of my work. After a while he scooted a little closer to where I was sitting & asked if he could look at the ancient authentic points & blades that I had to show the flatlanders.
I told him that he was more than welcome to see anything I had. He asked me to show him the best of what I had in old stone... I pulled out a small unifacial ovoid knife/ scraper blade, & a couple other small points. He said to really look at the things I had in my hands... then look at the rest. His point was that there were more points & blades that had hinges, stacks, & other things that looked "wrong" to them. "Wrong" to us is a modern idea that wasn`t in their mindsets way back then. He told me that if I was making a point for a necklace or other finery, ya gotta make `em purty, cause purty sells... The most important thing back then came down to 3 major "gotta`s". Gotta have a decent point (to iniciate the cutting action), gotta have a sharp egde to continue the cutting, & still be thin enough at the basal end to be hafted in/onto whatever was to carry the point/blade in use wether it was an arrow shaft, atlatl foreshaft, or knife handle. Other than that, anything else was an option that didn`t affect the use of the tool. Hinges or stacks, away from the edge sucked, but didn`t affect the functionality. Overshot flakes that took out part of the other side of the just meant that he had to do a few pressure flakes to restore the sharpness lost (if even that).
As long as the point would put meat over the fire or an enemy to the "happy hunting grounds" it was a good point.
Sorry toi ramble on, but that`s just my $0.02 woth...
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one more thing to add to lobos excellent discription. go for a walk find something that will make a point. make a point out of it right there on the spot with whatever tools are on the ground. see what you get. ;D
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All of these are good points put you still have that BIG S (STILL). And like I said I've been to and dug a couple work sites here there was chert out crops. I'd like to have 100 pounds of. And time wasn't a problem here and I sure the knappers of the village went here. So I'm sorry I just saying there heads should be a LOT better than the ones you find.