Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Danzn Bar on July 24, 2017, 08:18:39 pm
-
Hey Guys,
Working on a Hackberry Molly ....One of the limbs has a pretty big knot in it with a lot of soft punky wood. I've dug out the bad wood. and have it to short brace and pulling about 10", Heat treated it and it's ready for full brace.
Question for you guys......need some ideas
What would you do with the knot hole? Leave it? Fill it, with what and when. I'm leaning towards filling it but want something special/different. It's got osage tip overlays, might plug it with osage?......What do you guys think?
Thanks
DBar
-
I would lean toward leaving it open. I like holes. If you fill it with Osage would you drill it out and put in a round plug? I have this gut feeling that a natural shaped hole would be stronger than one that was drilled but my gut has been wrong many times. Someone(Simon maybe) did one with turquoise powder and epoxy that looked real nice. Kind of like an ear ring on a biker.
-
I was kinda thinking like D.C. Said. I've never done it but some turquoise dust would probably look good.
Bjrogg
-
Recently I used some charcoal powder in epoxy, I really like the look of black plugged hole
-
Osage dust and 5 min epoxy would be my filler. but a peep site is always nice!
-
Id leave it be, for the cool factor. I don't believe it would change anything if you left it or filled it, just appearance.
-
PD is probably right about it not making a functional difference so it depends who the bow is for. Crushing up a substance and mixing it with epoxy could be a nice way to personalize the bow for someone. (=)
-
Nice wood choice for a levered type bow I'd say being heat treated.I like the empty type hole look!!
-
I agree no functional difference just appearance.
DC, I'd fill it with osage dust and epoxy.
Yep Goat I've use epoxy and charcoal dust all the time, even with my arrows for faux pine pitch.
Leaning towards cleaning it up a bit more and leaving it as is......
But, the recipient has not responded....:)
Thanks Ed ...have always want to do one......After seeing a short recurve stixanstones did out of hackberry and a few hackberry's I've done I think it is the most underrated bow wood around.
DBar
-
osage and epoxy,, (SH)
-
Here's a few more progress pics to date......
Got a lot more work to do on this one.
But wanting to recurve the levers after getting the tiller almost done to about 25". Finishing the tiller to have the leavers working just a bit. of course this is with heat treating this guy every step of the way. Hackberry loves the heat treat.............
Shooting for 50# at 26" ..but as we all know the best laid plans are bound to be destroyed by nature....
Oh I'm also planning on feathering backing the working limbs on this one if it stays together "{finger crossing}".......:)
DBar
-
Sweet proflies so far DB.Cool plans for this one too.I think hackberry is underrated too.I've seen some nice ones Jon W has done too out of that wood.
-
Gonna be sweet Dbar, guess we know whose not getting it. I'm sure whoever it's going to is gonna love it.
Bjrogg
-
Ed,
Appreciate the comments, I really enjoy your bows and knowledge to different posts....JonW's last static was very nice, but it seems to me to be a locust and Elm guy to me. ??? ;) I've said a few times I'd like to meet that guy...:)
BJ only if it stays together...:)
DBar
-
I like the empty look myself Bill, hackberry molly should sling some arras😉
-
Looks like an excellent start Bill
-
I think I'd leave the hole personally. I typically heat up a rod red hot and I burn out all the Punky stuff. you sure got those Molly's down!
-
Your bows are fun to watch go into being a bow DBar.Very nice work.What's the length on this one?
Jon W can crank the bows out too.At MoJam he had 5 or 6 osage bows roughed out ready to tiller when I got there.Sweet bows.He was having a blast with a deflex/reflex form he was using.We traded some staves.Of course hackberry for elm. :BB
-
Thanks Ed,
Well its 61" ntn
4" Handle
1.5" Fads @ Handle
14" working limb
1.5" Fads @ lever
11.5" lever
I hope that adds up to 61....:)
Shooting for 50# @ 26"
DBar
-
Dbar, this one's looking real good so far. The design looks solid and the profiles are killer. Thanks for posting the progress. :) (-P Never worked hackberry before, but I think it just jumped up a few notches on my "to do" list!
-
Upstate,
Hackberry is great in tension, and heat treating the belly is a must....give it a try and let us know what you come up with.......
DBar
-
My vote is for a holey hackberry bow. It's looking great so far Bill. A feather backing will look awesome on it. I'm excited to try hackberry. You can tie that stuff in knots when it's green.
-
Here we are at 53# @ 25"
Added a little recurve to the levers.
Can feel it flexing just a bit in the handle.
Would like to drop her down a few pounds and thin out the tips a bit more.
Bottom fad area still looks a little stiff to me
What do you think ???
DBar
-
Looking great. personally I would scrape the first four inches below the handle just a couple times. It's real damn close
-
Looking great. personally I would scrape the first four inches below the handle just a couple times. It's real damn close. But if it's not taking any set and shooting smooth I probably leave it
-
That profile looks perfect.Sweeeet.Seems your getting osage strength poundage on such a length out of hackberry almost but with out the mass weight of osage.That ought to be a fast bow.I'm curious as to the mass weight on that bow.If you don't mind.That's after handle is carved in all finished so to speak.Curious too to see the resting profile after it's done.If the working limbs are flat yet with your tips up a bit yet that's a wonderful bow.Very nice work.
I better get after my hackberry staves and warm up the heat gun....lol.
-
I love it! that looks wicked... cant wait to see it all gussied up
-
What's the width?????
-
That's going to be a sweet hackbow.
-
Thanks Clint....
Ed just went down and weighed it ----17oz.
And the working limbs are 1.8" wide
The lever at the fads is .72"
Tips at the nock is .35"
Working limbs are flat, maybe a bit reflexed.
This is good hackberry, got it from Osage Outlaw, Maybe some of his osage rubbed off.. :) :)
DBar
-
Maybe it's a hi-bred Bill. I really like it, the bend is looking real good to me. Can't wait to see what she looks like all gussied up.
Bjrogg
-
Hey Paul S, yep ........ as I knock it down a bit in weight I'll work that spot. Thanks!
DBar
-
I thought it might be 2" wide but that's cool.Even better @ 1.8".Thanks.Seems to be in a nice safe range yet mass weight wise to hold up.It evens things out good.Those widths sound like what I would end up with anyway.We can only wait and watch to see what you do with the white back on this one after seeing those pheasant feather backed beauties you've shown.I'm sure you'll come up with something.Maybe even get it in for BOM entry.
Your full draw looks better one way then the other.Maybe a slight propeller?Good taking those digi pics of full draw to inspect that.
-
Ed,
The back if it holds up after shooting a 100 times or so (only have about 30-40 shots at this point) will be "turkey" feathers. Turkey feathers is the only bird I've done. I don't have any pheasant feathers, but that would be great and I bet they would look real good. I've got feathers of a half dozen quail just waiting for the right bow/application.
There's no prop twist.... must be the way I'm holding it....
Thanks for the comments, always learn from others opinions.........
I'll have it at Elm Hall and be putting the final touches on it before finishing there.
Thanks
DBar
-
I bet she holds up.Don't want to jinx it though.
I wonder what gray speckeled guinea feathers would look like.They are gray with white dots on them all over their body.Maybe a king snake look?Lot of choices out there.
Wish Elm hall was'nt so far away.
-
I hate to be that 'other voice', but knowing that you plan to feather back this beauty, I'd fill that hole with epoxy mixed with brass powder. It would shine like gold next to those metallic looking feathers!
...and to take the contrarian point to it's fullest, I cannot imagine that filling the hole would be functionally the same as not filling it. Air has nearly ZERO compression strength compared to just about anything you might use to fill the hole. Now, it may not make a difference that would ever be noticed, assuming that the wood around the knot never gets loaded up significantly. But if the wood around the hole would ever be stressed or move at all, then a filler that could push back and support the wood fibers around the hole would have to be better than ambient air to keep things in place. Am I missing something obvious in my thinking about this?
I suppose there is also the weight of the filler to consider, but that would seem to be a minimal consideration for performance.
OneBow
-
Eric,
You do have a point.
DBar
-
Hey Guys,
I've been shooting it and thinning out the tips, working it down to get it to weight, and I think I almost went too far on the thinning of the levers. You have got to be careful if your not familiar with the wood with leavers. It is very common on lever type bows to have a twist in the levers if you get them too long and narrow, especially with reflex levers. I don't have as much experiance with hackberry as I do with osage, but, I think I've got them to the limit for hackberry. It looks real good right now with a lot of work at the nocks and additional dry heat corrections. I will be adding the feathers and the some stain in the next few sessions.
I hope to have more pictures once I have the feathers on. The FD looks the same as the prior pic's just thinner in all areas......
More pic's to come later......
DBar
-
Can't wait to see it all finished Bill.
-
That fd profile looks really cool, Bill. I like the little bit of reflex with the levers and how its breaking in the handle.
Very nice.
-
Thanks Steve appreciate the comments....................
OO hope to almost have it finished by Scottsburg so you can take a look at it..
DBar
-
Bill I been hiding out watching this one. Really like what I'm seeing. The first few bows I made were hackberry Mollies. An excellent combo. This one should be a good shooter.
-
Thanks Mr. W appreciate the encouraging words...my friend....
DBar
-
I can't believe we don't see more bows made from hackberry. Grows pipe straight, heat bends easily and grows everywhere.
-
Yea I agree JonW ....some mighty tough wood, most under-rated wood around if you ask me. I've got 3 or 4 more staves and I'll be looking for more for sure.
Dbar
-
And it splits very easily.
-
That's going to be a heck of a bow D Bar by your plans when your done.Look forward to seeing the finish.
Know what you mean too about getting those levers right to the edge of almost bowing sideways too much or twisting at brace being too narrow and long or with just a little too much reflex or combination of both.Had it happen on a winged elm once.It's still ok though but right to the edge.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN0096_zpsp3odrrnh.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN0096_zpsp3odrrnh.jpg.html)
-
Thanks...Yea know where your coming from Ed...........
I must have to admit after about 75 shots and having it braced for about and hour, it is taking a little set in the handle. But, I didn't heat treat the handle and I thought the handle was always a little thin (from back to belly) but it was all I had to work with in this stave. I've got some leather glued on the belly side of the handle to build it up for a good grip. But I'm going to cut it off and heat treat the heck out of the handle and see if that does it. I dough it ......damaged wood is damaged wood
Hope this helps its the only place at this time it is taking some set.... I hope I haven't damaged the wood to the point that heat treating doesn't work. If not it looks like a bit of deflex / reflex to it. And it's shooting pretty good now.
Till next time.
DBar
-
Great stick DBar.
I like the last pic, a td bow in the quiver would be unvisible among the arrows 8)
-
Finally got a chance to finish her up.
50#@25"
-
A few more
-
More....
-
Man, that is beautiful Bill. I bet it shoots as good as it looks.
-
That is pretty!
-
That's about as good as it gets bud.Excellent work.I'd say that's a keeper.....lol.Pulling at 25" helped I'm sure but still I bet it shoots pretty sweet.I can't tell but did you leave the hole open yet?
-
Very nice work Bill. Do I get to shoot that one in a couple of weeks?
-
Thanks Guys....
Ed, Yes I left the hole, it goes all the way through the limb.
Sure Clint I'll have it when I come to your place in a few weeks. You can shoot it all you want.
DBar
-
that looks great, congrats,, (SH)
-
That is friggin awesome! I'd love to see a video of how you applied the feathers.
-
Very nice Bill, great work all around
-
Good job on that one, I bet she has some excellent cast!
-
Very nice work Bill.
-
Wow! That's a picture perfect bend and the finish work is totally original and beautiful. Great job D bar! (-S
-
That is a beautiful bow in every way Bill. I really like the feathers but that whole bow looks sweet. I like those numbers to. Beautiful bends. Maybe it'll make the trip to Marshall?
Bjrogg
-
Very nice Bill. I've gotta try the turkey feather backing sometime. :OK
-
Very nice work! What stain did you use on that hackberry?
-
DBar,
I missed this post...Looks awesome...Love the bend, looks balanced in your hands...Beautiful turkey feather backed piece...bend and levers look like money...
Don
PS...Love Old Kentuck, my folks are from there, do you know any Burchett's...
-
Sure Clint I'll have it when I come to your place in a few weeks. You can shoot it all you want.
DBar
At least you know he wont over draw it and break it!!! Great looking bow my friend.
-
Soon as hunting season gets over or I fill a tag or 2 I gotta get a couple of those hackberry staves trimmed down.Got some winged elm too from JW that should make this design nicely too.
Now is your bow considered a backed bow now or a self bow?I should look at the rules I guess.I thought only rawhide makes it into a backed bow.
-
Thanks guys.......
Badger ... she does fling an arrow pretty good. High string tension and the draw seams to be the same ,no stack, from 15" to 25".
Morgan...an alcohol based walnut, I use it most of the time and change or fade the color using a paper towel soaked in alcohol.
Don...no don't know any Burchett's. If your ever in the Louisville area look me up.
Pearl...you know it. :) ;)
Ed... Backed or self? Been wondering that myself. I see a good aruguement for both with my experience. You know feathers are very light and fragile sort like snake skins and 5-6 coats of true oil. But it really doesn't mater to me. I'll leave it up to the experts. I'm open for discussion on the issue on this thread.
Thanks again Guys!!!
DBar
-
I promise I won't overdraw it either Bill. I've wondered the same thing Ed. I'm not sure if it should be backed or unbacked but it sure should be entered in the BOM. Really beautiful bow Bill I really like the profiles and the feathers look great to.
Bjrogg
-
That is a beautifull bow! Nice balanced molly and the feather backing is stunning! Bet it's fast too!
-
Nice work on that.
-
Woo, that's one handsome bow :)
Del
-
First off that is a selfbow. Second man Bill your feather finish is friggin beautyful, great bend empecable finish, the only problem is the rest is on the wrong side lol
-
I promise I won't overdraw it either Bill. I've wondered the same thing Ed. I'm not sure if it should be backed or unbacked but it sure should be entered in the BOM. Really beautiful bow Bill I really like the profiles and the feathers look great to.
Bjrogg
That backing is for decoration, not for performance or protection. I'd say it's a selfbow of the month candidate.
-
Great looking bow Bill.
-
Yea read the rules...I'd say it's a very good candidate for self BOM.
-
I promise I won't overdraw it either Bill. I've wondered the same thing Ed. I'm not sure if it should be backed or unbacked but it sure should be entered in the BOM. Really beautiful bow Bill I really like the profiles and the feathers look great to.
Bjrogg
That backing is for decoration, not for performance or protection. I'd say it's a selfbow of the month candidate.
[/quote
I'd be inclined to agree with Clint and Ed. Mostly decoration only. I just entered my Deep Roots bow last week because they were looking for enteries. If you enter this bow Bill I'll have to vote for yours instead of mine. Sure hope you enter it.
Bjrogg
-
Oh Yeah Buddy!!
That's cool
-
Looks great Bill, turned out real pretty.
-
BEAUTIFUL bend, Mr Bill!!
Feathered finish, as usual, top rate.
Thanks so much for sharing with us. Hope to see it up close in 5 months!
-
"That backing is for decoration, not for performance or protection. I'd say it's a selfbow of the month candidate."
+1
-
Nice looking bow Bill. Can't wait to see it in a couple of weeks.
-
Thanks again Guys!
-
Bill you have made a show stopper! Congrats on a down right sexy looking bow, I'm sure its a dead eye ringer of a shooter too.
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/oYtVHSxngR3lC/giphy.gif)
-
Very Nice! As I was reading this I was thinking to myself that I would be skeered of heat treating before filling or sealing the hole edges as I'm always developing checks if I don't use tung oil on the wood before I heat treat or try to bend wood with heat.
That's a fine looking bow, well done as usual!
I have a roughed out hackberry on the caul right now. I roughed it out and clamped it about 2 months ago..
-
I now I am joining the crowd late, but better late than never. Really nice bow with great bend and finish! How does it shoot?
-
Thanks Paul
Thanks Joe
Phillipp, she flings an arrow pretty good. hits the target butt hard.
DBar
-
Thanks for sharing, Great Craftsmanship. John
-
Yep that is a beauty for sure, ;) :)very nice job.
Pappy
-
Wow, beauty bow and that backing is amazing
-
Thanks Stoner....Ryan.....and Pappy.
Appreciate the comments very much.
It's a Christmas gift for a very special person.
DBar
-
First off, just amazing work my friend, second you know how much i love hackberry and third, frickin amazing work my friend... that special someone is gonna be blown away
-
Bill handed me this amazing bow over the weekend. It is something special. The detail work is incredible. And she's more than a looker. It packs a serious punch and shoots very flat. The first few arrows zipped right over the top of the targets.
Thank you so much Bill.
(https://i.imgur.com/uUTzt2i.jpg)
-
Congrats Clint, beautiful bow, nothing like having good friends. ;)
Pappy
-
Bill you couldn't have found a better home for that one. I'm excited to, betting that one will make the trip to Marshall for the 25th annual Primitive Archer meet. Love to see it up close and see a couple arrows flung by it. Congratulations Osage.
Bjrogg
-
I was glad to see that piece of hackberry make it back home. Got that piece from Clint the second Moontree gathering. Five years ago if I can count. Hope you enjoy buddy
DBar
-
Very nice birthday present I'd say.I'm sure it takes some time to make a bow like that with that finish.
-
wow one heck of a gift. very nice Bill. I said it before and I'll say it again some of the nicest people I've ever met are off this website
-
Thats awesome Bill, Clint your one lucky duck