Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: WillS on April 28, 2016, 07:04:09 am
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Joe's just made this video of himself testing a 180lb horn/sinew bow made by Adam. Might be of interest to some.
He uses a flight arrow and a heavy (63g) arrow for the tests through a chrono.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8OLbdV5snk
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I think I dislocated four vertebra just watching it. Amazing stuff. Beautiful bow :) :)
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Not sure what was more painful, the thought of my shoulders shooting that thing, or him shooting it off the left side with Mediterranean grip, lol.
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I've been waiting to see this!
If I made a heavy Turkish flight bow do you think he (or anybody else you know into shooting heavy bows)might be interested in shooting it? I'm making a few dedicated flight bows at the moment (estimated weights 70 ish and 90 ish) for myself but I've got a very nice thick pair of horns and enough wood for another core....I've been playing around with the idea of making a proper heavy bow just for giggles. I'd probably aim for about 140# with it.
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Definitely Alicia of Alicia's Archery, though she also only shoots with 3 fingers :p hmm
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I watched this video and saw that Joe got 211 FPS from the 180 lb horn bow on a 63 gm (972 gn) arrow. I then clicked on the video of Joe testing a swiss yew selfbow also of 180 lbs and also using a 63 gm arrow....result: 209 FPS.
I remember that Adam Karpowitz summed up his performance tests in his book with similar conclusion that these horn bows were only slightly better performers than simple yew longbow counterparts.
So why all the extra work? Is it all about a shorter bow for horseback? Or were the master crafted horn bows of old superior performers to those being recreated today due to some small but crucial differences in construction?
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I watched this video and saw that Joe got 211 FPS from the 180 lb horn bow on a 63 gm (972 gn) arrow. I then clicked on the video of Joe testing a swiss yew selfbow also of 180 lbs and also using a 63 gm arrow....result: 209 FPS.
I remember that Adam Karpowitz summed up his performance tests in his book with similar conclusion that these horn bows were only slightly better performers than simple yew longbow counterparts.
So why all the extra work? Is it all about a shorter bow for horseback? Or were the master crafted horn bows of old superior performers to those being recreated today due to some small but crucial differences in construction?
I think the short horn bows do better with lighter arrows, and a 180# Manchu bow would likely really outperform the Swiss yew with a 2300+ grain arrow.
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Firstly this isn't a 'short' hornbow and it isn't a Turkish design(Crimean Tartar?). Adam's testing was on authentic Turkish bows. Turkish bow were only drawn to around 28 inch and obviously this chap is used to drawing 30+ so Adam has made a bow for his drawlength.
The Turks didn't use whopping great heavy arrows as the English did. The elb is a great design but its limbs can only move so fast. Long bow, slow moving limbs = long drawlength and heavy arrows. Great for shooting at a slow moving body of men.
The Turkish bows will shoot the big heavy arrows as well as a longbow....however when you start dropping the gpp then the performance of the Turkish bows starts to show. Turkish war arrows weighed around 600 grains and the bows were likely give or take around 100# = 6gpp.
So if you take into account that they fought in a completely different way, used different bows and different arrows you start to realise that you can't compare apples and oranges!
I shoot my Turkish hornbow with arrows of around 5gpp - there is zero handshock and my arrows are doing around 230 - 240 fps. When I used to shoot elbs all the time I would use arrows of around 9 gpp and be getting 180fps.
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Mike when you say GPP do you include the weight of the arrow head or field point?
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Yes - total weight of the whole arrow.
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I shoot my Turkish hornbow with arrows of around 5gpp - there is zero handshock and my arrows are doing around 230 - 240 fps. When I used to shoot elbs all the time I would use arrows of around 9 gpp and be getting 180fps.
What draw weight is that bow? Do you also pull 28"?
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I shoot my Turkish hornbow with arrows of around 5gpp - there is zero handshock and my arrows are doing around 230 - 240 fps. When I used to shoot elbs all the time I would use arrows of around 9 gpp and be getting 180fps.
What draw weight is that bow? Do you also pull 28"?
Was wondering this too, if a hornbow can be so fast if only 50-60lbs
I think I'll stick to slower arrows so I can see them fly :p but it sure is nice to have a flat trajectory and not worry so much about drop..
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The bow I shoot all the time is actually about 65#@28. I thought it was more like 55# until I weighed it properly. Yes I draw 28.
Even shooting superlight 200 grain flight arrows doesn't give much handshock. Hornbows are so different to selfbows.
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magic
That is amazing.
My sluggy heavy eared Magyar hornbow does have handshock with lighter arrows...
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Very impressive video. Thanks.
Adam used to be a frequent contributor on the sites I frequent but I have not seen him post anything in a long while.
I met Adam at ETAR a few years ago.
Anyone know how he is doing?
Jawge
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I don't know anything about hornbows, very interested in trying to make one. I wonder if a horn bow can be left strung a lot longer than a wood self bow without damaging the belly or causing string follow?
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I don't know anything about hornbows, very interested in trying to make one. I wonder if a horn bow can be left strung a lot longer than a wood self bow without damaging the belly or causing string follow?
They take temporary string follow with use, noticeable just after unstringing. But then they slowly pull into reflex again.
Probably don't wanna leave it strung too long, could cause set in the core. Few days is fine probably. cmiiw
In his tests Adam kept a very heavy hornbow strung for weeks... http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2486
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The core isn't feeling compression/tension. You casn leave them strung for a long time and the set wouldn't be permanent - it can be reverse by gentle heating. Also there is little loss of performance when left strung a long time unlike wooden bows.
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Now that's a bow!!!!! referring to loon's atarn.net reference of Adam K's bow.
Pretty much +1 of what Mike typed about string follow Joec123able just with observing the little that I've experienced with it.I think it's in the TBB 1 [design & performance chapter]book but Tim Baker explains exactly what and where things go on with the working surface of bows.Percentage of thickness to percentage of work it does etc.It holds true.