Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: woodystyle777 on December 09, 2013, 09:25:32 pm
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I've seen a lot of video's on Youtube of people using a $40 Veritas 3/8ths dowel cutter.
The problem I have with this is that all the field points i've found are always in traditional arrow sizes like 5/16, 9/32, and 11/32. So I'm wondering what these people are doing for the tips of the arrows (they never show past the cutting of the shaft).
The same company offers arrow making inserts that come in the traditional sizes but then your looking at a minimum of $240
Could 3/8ths shafts work for making completed arrows? If so where can you get the field points that fit 3/8ths?
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23/64 field points are widely available, and fit a 3/8 shaft just fine. And you can taper any diameter shaft to fit a 5/16 point if you want, it might look a little small on a 3/8 shaft, but it will be functional and all. (Ok, a 5/16 point might look a little more than a "little" small on a 3/8"shaft, but you can't really tell the difference between a 23/64 on a 23/64 shaft from a 23/64 on a 3/8 shaft, as least I can't.)
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I use the 3/8" dowel cutter to make arrows. Just cut 'em to 3/8" and sand 'em down to the spine you want. If the point doesn't fit, just file down the point end a bit till it does. I find the dowel cutter leaves rings that such that need to be sanded off anyway but this could be because I don't have a jig to do it an just do it by hand.
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I use poplar shafts that were turned through a Veritas dowel cutter. Charlie Jefferson made the shafts. He burnished the 3/8" shafts by forcing them through a jig that compressed the shafts to 11/32".
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I use poplar shafts that were turned through a Veritas dowel cutter. Charlie Jefferson made the shafts. He burnished the 3/8" shafts by forcing them through a jig that compressed the shafts to 11/32".
That sounds pretty cool. Is it something complicated, or something you could make with ipe?
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I think 3Rivers sells the compression block(steel) that Charlie used.
One set of these shafts I tapered the rear 9" to 5/16" with a jig I made.
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You can not use IPE for the compression hole. The popular will just eat the IPE up. I had my own design made using a 3/8 brass block with all size holes in it that I wanted. I also have the upper line veritas dowel jig so to get the tolerances I want and need. I can dig up some pictures if you would like?
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You can not use IPE for the compression hole. The popular will just eat the IPE up. I had my own design made using a 3/8 brass block with all size holes in it that I wanted. I also have the upper line veritas dowel jig so to get the tolerances I want and need. I can dig up some pictures if you would like?
Hows the finish come out on the more expensive veritas dowel jig? Do you get problems with tear out with any woods?
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BTW, Stringstretcher is Charlie Jefferson! 8)
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If you have the two blades good and sharp it gives a great finish. Getting the blades sharp and set right is a learning curve I will say.
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I use the 3/8 dowel cutter and burnish to the size I want using hickory or RO scraps with the proper size hole drilled. Can get 8 or so shafts done before the hole gets a little wallowed out - so then you drill another hole . . .
Always wondered if the more expensive LV Doweler was as cool as it looks in the catalog.
Russ
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For the hobbyist that wants a dozen shafts now and then, the small veritas would/should work just fine, along with the holes in a wood block. But when I am running two and three thousand at a time, that will just not work for me. My brass block has holes drilled in it ti accomadate the expansion when it gets hot to give me a burnished and straightened shaft when I run then. So when they come out of my jig set up, they look like they are sealed, and very very straight.
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Here is my dowell jig set up.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/P8280377.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/P8280377.jpg.html)
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and her is my burnishing/straightening jig
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/P8280375.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/P8280375.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/P8280374.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/P8280374.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/P8280365.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/P8280365.jpg.html)
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Prior to running through the dowel-er.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/dowels004.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/dowels004.jpg.html)
and end result. I try to run a gross (144) each time and then resharpen the blades to keep my tolerances close
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/dowels1115001.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/dowels1115001.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/spine004.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/spine004.jpg.html)
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And it all started from this
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/poplar005.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/poplar005.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/STRINGSTRETCHER/poplar004.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/STRINGSTRETCHER/media/poplar004.jpg.html)
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I agree about the difference between my dozen or so now and then to your thousands at a time. I assume you still have to back each shaft out of the doweler when you get to the end like I do on the smaller one? To do that thousands of times, man o man. Any tricks or tips?
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Yes, you have to pull it back out. The big key here is (1) Good seasoned wood. (20. When you back it out it will be very hot and limber. NOW IS THE TIME TO STRAIGHTEN EACH SHAFT. I then lay them on a very flat surface to cool and rehydrate for at least a day. Very little if any extra straightening is needed after that. Hope this helps for some.
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Thanks.
I guess you found this method better than some of those router set ups I have seem around? Why? I kinda assumed that those router set ups were better suited for the volume shaft maker, as they give a burnished shaft and you only have to touch a shaft once as opposed to the twice that I have to do (and you).
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
Russ
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Russ. I also have a router set up and it does quite well for making the dowels. I have found the veritas gives me many more dowel size options and keeping the blades sharp will in fact give me a mirror and burnished finish. None of my shafts are sanded, or have to be. When I run through the burnish jig, I get some compression and lots of heat. This allows for a harder finish around the shafts diameter and a lot more consistent tolerance over the full length, as well as being able to straighten the shaft without other uses. I am sure if I took the time to play more with a router set up, they would be the same. Mine from the router jig would just not give me what I wanted or the end result I wanted.
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And just to clarify something, you mentioned that I "have to back the dowel out of the machine", no, not from the dowel er. I cut my blanks a specific length, run them through the dowel er and then cut the dowel off and pull it out the guides. This gives me a full 36" dowel to cut to what I want. I do have to back it out the burnisher, but by choice.
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On the router jig, if I still worked in sheet metal and had the equipment to make a jig from all metals and gauges to set it right, I would. But in my opinion, you can NOT make a jig from wood and expect any kind of a standard tolerance over a long run. And that is what I needed.
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Charlie, thank you for showing your setup, you answered the questions I had about the veritas upper line dowel jig, I really appreciate it! Man, running 2000 or 3000 shafts through a jig like that must take a good while!
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Boy does it make great arrows though. The poplars I got from Charlie are the toughest dowel shafts I've ever used...and I'm a cane and hardwood shoot arrow kind of guy. ;)
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Once you get in a rhythm it goes better than you would think. I set up and do a gross a day and it works well for me. And I am always glad to hear that these kind of things get to help some one else. I have a load right now that is waiting on me to heal up to work on. These have now been air dried from green lumber cut almost three years ago. I would think they are pretty seasoned by now, lol.
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Thanks Pat. I really like them as so do many others. Now if I can get healthy enough, this next batch will get run this spring. I am sure there will be a few dozen coming your way.
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Nice set up Charlie,now I see where the ones you gave me came from, they are strong /straight and make great hunting arrows,several deer have fell from them. ;) :)
Pappy
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Charlie
Good to see you thinking about getting back at it !!
I don't get good popular around here , I would like to try a few of yours .
Do you think you will be doing other flavors ?
I like playing with odd ball shafting for arrows
Take care
Guy
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Right now I am not running any other material. And I will keep you in mind when I get to run these for sure
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Thanks!!
Guy
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SS - Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate them.
If I may ask you one last question - since you say you cut square end off and just pull the shaft thru the dowel er rather than backing it out, than what do you use to hold the shaft with when you spin them thru the burnisher? I always backed my shafts out of the dowel er, keeping the square end, and using the square end to spin the shafts thru the burnisher, then I cut the square end keeping the best section for my finished shaft.
Russ
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I just chuck the dowel in the drill. That way I can pull it backwards also. Using the chuck for the square end, and you can not back it up. Then that short section will get cut off.
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Ok - - I get it. You just cut the chucked end off again anyway when you cut to 32, I assume.
Since I had been using a block of wood with a hole for a burnisher, I just spun the shaft using the square end in a socket chucked in the drill, and moved the burnishing block of wood up and down the shaft.
Much thanks for the insight.
Russ
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Excellent Thread!
This cleared up numerous questions and concepts that I have been trying to Reinvent.
I've been trying to break this Bad habit (Reinvention) for some time.
Progress is slow...
:)
Thank Y'all again, for the Great Information.
-gus
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Excellent Thread!
This cleared up numerous questions and concepts that I have been trying to Reinvent.
I've been trying to break this Bad habit (Reinvention) for some time.
Progress is slow...
:)
Thank Y'all again, for the Great Information.
-gus
I second all of this. Definitely proves the effectiveness of the veritas dowel maker and then some, at least for woods like poplar.
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Thanks for the thread Charlie! I have the 3/8" Veritas and my shafts seem to have a twist in them. Is this caused by feeding them to quickly into the cutter?
Also, if you mentioned this in the thread and I missed it sorry, do you run the blank through the cutter and the brass burnisher at the same time or cut to size first and then burnish?
Thanks again Charlie
Cheers,
Dan K
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Having not used that jig, but when my blades start to get dull, they will spiral down the shaft. and I found that the faster drill motor you use, that helps tremendously.
The doweling and burnishing are done in two operations, two different jigs.