Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Griffin027 on September 13, 2016, 04:31:09 pm
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The bow is 60" t/t, 4" handle 1" wide, fades are 1 1/2" wide and carries that width 6" then tapers to 1/2" nocks. Fades are 1 1/2" long. I'm shooting for 50lbs at 28". This pic is 23". Outer left third seems stiff. Once I get it even at 24 should I reflex then get the handle slimmed down to bend through or vice versa?
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_133802_zpsrtuvjotx.jpeg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_133802_zpsrtuvjotx.jpeg.html)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_132627_zpsspj3jr7b.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_132627_zpsspj3jr7b.jpg.html)
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I agree left mid to outer is a tad stiff... there seems to be a think patch, is this a knot? It doesn't take much extra thickness left round knots.
I would n't expect it to actually bend through the handle, but I think it could work a tad more towards the fades giving a longer working limb and more room to add reflex.
I'm assuming lower limb is to the left and thus a little extra stiffness in that limb is ok.
I don't do much reflex so I don't have any real advice on that other than, better to do too little at first and then add more if necessary, rather than going overboard on it.
Del
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Get the limbs just outside the fades moving some. Especially the left limb, right looks better. That will give you less stress on the midlimb areas that are taking a pounding. Then see if the outers need adjusting. That's what I would do.
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Del, thanks! Ya the left limb has several knots and right limb has none. Not sure what bottom limb will be yet.
Slimbob, I will get inner fades moving. Thanks for the tip. So what's your thoughts, is 60" bow capable of 50# @28 with stiff handle? Do I need to reflex the limbs?
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1. Yes on 28". 50lbs. You'll just have to see what you get, but it should work.
2. You dont "need" to reflex, but you can, and I would. Not much. Like Del said, I would flip them a bit and keep the last 4 inches or so stiff. Your on the edge length wise, but Osage can handle it. It may take some set. Get your tiller perfect.
I would get it bending right out of the fades. Pretty much now. That will give you some extra draw length.
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Ok, thanks. I did as you said and rasped and scraped inner fades. And some scraping one that one outer third stiff limb. Here is the bow at 26". (Limbs are reversed from previous pic)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_173607_zpsx8b8esxg.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160913_173607_zpsx8b8esxg.jpg.html)
Should I stop here and reflex now or wait till I'm tillered to 28? Also how much reflex, how far from the tips should I start the reflex?
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This is when you need to be precise. Take your straight edge and run it along each limb and check the gap. Scrape the flat areas lightly and leave the rest alone. The right limb in this pic might be a tad stiff mid limb but let the straight edge tell you that. Right fade could be loosened a bit as well. Show an unbraced if you will.
I would get the tiller shape right and then reflex. Have you tempered? Are you planning to? If so, temper and reflex would be my next step after you touch the tiller up. Your tiller is really pretty close now.
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Thanks so much. I hadn't planned on tempering and I don't have a heat gun either. At this point the bow prob gas roughly 1 3/4" to 2" of set, not so good, but it's my 1st with osage. I will tweak those spots this weekend. Where should my reflex begin in the limb and how far forward should I reflex. I will get pics of brace at this point.
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A heat gun makes it easy, and they are pretty cheap. I would temper, especially if it has taken 2 inches of set. The tempering will allow you to remove the set and hardening the belly will keep at least some from returning. Your call, but It will make a difference. You have another 2 inches to go before its at full draw and it will inevitably pick up more set by then.
Last 4 to 5 inches should be good on the tips. Are you going to steam? With a heat gun you can reflex, temper, remove the set and heat up your lunch all at the same time.
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Looks like you need to get ore of that near handle wood moving. I mark a nice dark pencil line at the end of the fades and really look to get the wood beginning to bend there. Jawge
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Ant looking to bad right now, is your draw length really 28, I hear that all the time but most folks aren't even though they say it is, just asking. 28 for a 60inch non backed bow is asking about the limit to have a good low set reliable bow even with Osage. JMO. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Ya I knew it was pretty short but this stave wasn't long enough. My true draw length is 27 1/2" so I figured 28 will give me a little safety net.
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Is the right limb's outer limb in the last pic a bit stiff? and that limb stiffer overall than the left limb?
I haven't built any bows for real so be careful with what I say :p
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Loon- ya that limb is stiff in the mid/outer third. It has knots all along it. This weekend I plan to fix that section and follow slimbobs advice with a straight edge. Prob get both sections right at the fades moving more too. Then aquire a heat gun and temper. How long after reflexing should I wait to resume tiller?
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when you leave it pulled on the tree ,, it will take more set,, even 15 seconds is too long,, after you temper,, try setting up a pully so you dont have to leave it at full draw for more than a few seconds,, :)
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Yeah I agree. I use a tiller stick on all mine, but only to 15-16 inches or so. I'm freakish about keeping one drawn for more than just a second or two at that length. I switch to the tiller tree NOW. But up until a few years ago, I just took a pic or two and went from there. I think I do a decent job of keeping unnecessary set to a minimum. That's surely one of the reasons.
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Tiller stick out to about 75 percent of whatever weight you are at is how I do it. If the bow is drawing my target weight out to 28 inches, I'll put it on the stick up to like 21 inches, use a straight edge, and make adjustments. I find if it is drawing 21 inches good(75%), it'll be drawing even at full draw. A mirror can be used for assurance. The tree is superior, but not everyone has the place for one. This works for me when I don't over tiller the bows in the handle like I typically do
My .02
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I hear ya on the tillering stick, I didn't think about it until I started noticing the set. I made sure to have my camera ready when I took these pics. I will get a pulley setup ASAP. Plus I don't like the stick much cause when you draw its not in alignment, if that makes sense. I'll get more pics of brace, unbrace too. How long after steaming should I wait to tiller?
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At this point, I would set your camera to self timer, put it on a tripod or something sturdy, and get a picture of you drawing it by hand. You can put a loop of velcro tape or something on the arrow so you can feel when it is at the right draw length. For the last few inches of draw, the pressure and position of your hands on the bow and string can make a big difference in tiller shape.
As far as wait time, heating wood dries it out, and you need to let it re-hydrate. I usually wait 24 hours, or overnight at least. White woods might need longer, but that should be fine with osage.
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I think you will get different answers to that question. Flipping the tips a bit that are static, a day or two is probably a good idea. The wood actually looses moisture when steamed, so letting it re-hydrate a bit cant hurt. That has always seemed counter intuitive to me, but I believe it to be true based on my experience.
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Ok, so I got it tillered to 28". It looks pretty close to me but I couldn't get a pic. Maybe I can have my wife take a picture for me. Here is an unbrace pic after it was unstrung.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20160917_174424_zpspuzt7mkn_edit_1474153148483_zps5deysew5.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160917_174424_zpspuzt7mkn_edit_1474153148483_zps5deysew5.jpg.html)
So tomorrow I will have a heat gun, I will heat treat the entire belly and then flip the last 5" of each limb.
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Pic of profile from belly side
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20160917_180704_zpskfj6c86j.jpeg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160917_180704_zpskfj6c86j.jpeg.html)
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Take it a bit past flat when you bend it to toast the belly. Maybe an inch or so not counting the flipped tips, so that when you are done, the limb will set at that inch plus the tips (2-3 inches or so??) for a total of 3-4 inches. It will lose some but retain a bit as well. Hopefully you will end up net, net with several inches of reflex. My advice is be conservative, I just usually ain't myself.
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Thanks Slimbob, I will do that. Should I just put the handle in the vice belly up and as I'm toasting pull down on tip gently to get my 1" set back?
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You can, but you run the risk of the limbs being wonky and not symmetrical with one another. Better I think to take a 2x6 or a board of that width, saw it to the shape you want. Clamp it down and heat. You can go one limb at a time and just flip it around for the second limb. This way they (each limb) will be pretty! I have done them as you described. You will thank me for goading you into buying the heat gun. I won't be without one.
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Haha! Well luckily my birthday was the 15th (opening day of archery) and my sister asked what I wanted. Heat gun! So tomorrow I will make that form. On the tips I'm thinking better to make a working tip rather than static? If static that would leave less working limb in my mind. Does this sound good?
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Hard to make a working tip that won't lose its bend and return to straighish after a while. For me any way. I have pulled it off but only by just having them flex a little and not uncurling. I would keep the last bit stiff were it me, but you can certainly give it a go. Stiff handle, 28 inch draw, 60 inches. Your on the short side for sure. It's doable though. Even with stiff tips. I have a 58" bow, 27" draw, stiff handle and static tips. Took some set but nothing too bad.
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Well, I got the static recurve in and they both cracked across the limb about halfway through the thickness. I rasped below and glued a piece of hedge as a patch. I'll post pics today, still need to adjust alignment. Also got the limbs tempered.
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(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20161005_132414_zpsttagpxrg.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161005_132414_zpsttagpxrg.jpg.html)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/levi027/Mobile%20Uploads/20161005_184547_zpsv7qhff3a.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/levi027/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161005_184547_zpsv7qhff3a.jpg.html)
Do you think these patches will be ok? I used titebond III.
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Does the crack go all the way to the nock?
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No, it cracked horizontally across the limb, Not parallel. I just used my farriers rasp and flattened out till I didn't see any moremore damage.
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No, it cracked horizontally across the limb, Not parallel. I just used my farriers rasp and flattened out till I didn't see any moremore damage.
Ok that must be a pencil mark. You are probably fine with a patch