Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Deerhunter21 on July 22, 2019, 11:56:55 am
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So i got this beautiful hackberry blank from the outlaw. I am trying to get a fifty pound draw out of it. Its a pyramid style bow and i might try to flip the tips. Could use suggestions, comments, or criticism! Thanks. Right now im trying to get it floor tillered.
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Looks great so far! I find that the more particular I am about the floor tillering and fondling process the easier tillering becomes. Keep up the good work, I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
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I’ll be watching. Good luck with it.
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Looks good Russell. Hope you get a nice bow from that stave.
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Hackberry loves a good belly toasting, and smells terrific when you do it!
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Like popcorn! Don’t stress it much without a solid toasting.
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ok so what should i do? floor tiller then toast? Toast then tiller? get it to brace then toast? thank you for letting me know to heat treat it. I gotta make a caul so ill get that done asap! ill keep you posted. :BB :BB )P(
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I like to have a stave bending just a little before toasting the belly, so my suggestion is floor tiller before toasting. Hackberry is a good wood to work.
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I do as Hrothgar suggested, then again at the end of tillering, after sanding with 120 grit (I finish with 220).
You want the heat to penetrate 1/8" or so into the belly. Remember that heat treating will add 5 or more pounds of draw weight, so if you do as I suggest, you want the draw weight just under your target prior to the last toasting.
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I've never worked hackberry... guess it is like hickory ... I take this is going to be built like a board bow since it is quartersawn... good luck with it...gut
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I've never worked hackberry... guess it is like hickory ... I take this is going to be built like a board bow since it is quartersawn... good luck with it...gut
It's not quarter sawn. It's a split stave.
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looking at end of stave its a quartersawn cut.. so no ring to chase?... I'm lost....gut
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looking at end of stave its a quartersawn cut.. so no ring to chase?... I'm lost....gut
Those are saw tooth marks, not growth rings. It's a split stave that has been roughed out.
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Yep. That’s a split stave. Untempered Hackberry is nearly useless imo. Tempered Hack is a different animal entirely. Temper just after floor tiller and I temper again once the color is scraped off.
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wow.. they sure look like rings..haha... Is hackberry like hornbeam?...
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It’s ring porous. Chasing a ring on it is like chasing lunar rings on Osage. Tough to say the least.
That should have read NOT ring porous. It’s diffuse porous.
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Ok guys just broke theough my bow building wall! Got it to where um almost going to toast it. Just need to finish the outer left side of the limb. I decided no caul as it already has enough reflex. Heres the tillering pics.
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wow.. they sure look like rings..haha... Is hackberry like hornbeam?...
No, completely different :)
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Your tillering string should be much shorter. I like mine tight to the belly so I have to flex the stave slightly to get it in the grooves. Too long a string makes the limbs bend differently.
You are off to a good start with the bow.
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Agree...and that difference in bending CAN cause you to come in under your target weight.
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Not trying to be a pain here, but from that second picture it appears like there isn't a solid growth ring chased for the back? Just want to bring it up in case...If Clint says it's good then I'm sure it is.
I did a Hackberrry bow early on and didn't have the back perfectly chased. There was a thin spot in the ring and it wasn't perfectly sanded smooth. Eventually it broke.
Good luck with it.
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ok ill make the string shorter.
Parnell, im kinda confused. ill check it. but how can you see that with a bad pic like that? what makes you think that? thanks
what type of heat gun should I get?
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Hackberry is similar to elm and steam bends extremely easy. However if you steam bend it let it dry completely before roasting as you’ll cause cracks due to moisture leaving the wood too quickly. Best bet would be wide limbs and narrow handle like it’s shown. It’s definitely a good smelling wood when it’s heat treated and I usually do so over a cut down paint can with some very hot coals on the bottom. Hope this helps
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this definitely helps mafort!
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Russell, if you are gonna buy a heat gun get something like a Wagner. About $35 if I remember correctly. The cheap Harbor Freight guns have been known to burn out prematurely.
Also, if you shellac the back before steaming or boiling you can prevent the drying cracks while it's drying. I use Bullseye spray shellac. About $8 to $10. Canned shellac has a shelf life but not the spray that I have noticed. Shellac flakes last indefinitely but you have to mix what you plan to use. I keep spray shellac on my work bench all the time. Never know when you'll need it. I spray the back of every bow I chase a ring on, no matter how long it's been drying. I've had staves that have dried for 10 or more years check when I exposed a new back ring.
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I was looking at these areas...just want to make sure it's not a ring violation or anything that could give you a hard time and ruin your time and effort.
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hmm, you right. ill check that but i think that's just the cambium scraped away. i'm pretty sure he just took the bark off.
so do i need to boil or steam the bow before i heat treat??? or can i just heat treat it right away without doing that?
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You only need to steam or boil hackberry if you're doing some extreme bends. Hackberry bends readily with dry heat. That looks like a good clean stave. So if you're just needing to induce a little reflex and toast the belly you can do that in one step with dry heat, a caul and some clamps. Be careful not to accidentally toast the back in the process.
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Sorry, I didn't see the part where you said it had enough reflex already. Yep just toast it nice and slow. Without the caul reflecting the heat back towards the back, there's a lot less chance of charring the back anyway.
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ok got the bow Heat treated, about 2.7" of reflex and one side is .5" lower than the other but I would call this a success! gonna let it rest for 3 days then getting back into it!
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Pics
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It does smell really good! (=) took me 1.5 hrs for one side untill i found that i can turn the fan up! ::) :D next side took me 20 mins. (-S gonna work on tillering tomorrow!
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I hope im doing this build along thing right (SH)
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Looking good
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Thanks!
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Proof that im getting my tillering eye!
The lines on the right side is where i thought it was stiff.
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And i was right!
Plus more pics.
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Could i get some help on the tiller?
Im thinking inner right, mid left.
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This is the point for me when the straight edge is king. Run a 4 inch item along the belly. It can be anything as long as it is flat and straight along one side. a 4 inch long 1x2, 2x2. A piece of metal, anything that gives you a good straight edge on it. Run it along the belly from handle to tip while the bow is drawn like it is in your pic. Any spot with little or no gap needs to bend more. Mark it with a pencil for scraping. Any spot that has a gap wider than what's around it is bending too much. Mark that spot as don't touch! Do that on both limbs. If you keep the gap even from stem to stern, the tiller will be right with no hinges or stiff spots. A little common sense is needed. The areas next to the grip and nearing the tips wont bend, right? So they will fade to flat (no gap). Now you can single handedly get that bow finished. Asking for tiller advice at this point from 20 different people will get you 5 different answers and that's fine. Which answer agrees with the straight edge? That's the one to follow.
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Yep, straight edge or tillering gizmo - either will allow you to get things bending somewhat quickly (without rushing of course - maybe "efficiently" is a better word). Dean Torges compared tiller to stalking an animal - if you start off moving super slowly when you are a mile away, you will never get there. Right now you aren't quite close enough to spook anything! So, don't rush, but don't be afraid to remove wood evenly either.
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I'd say SLIMBOB summed it up perfectly for you. Good luck.
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Looks like your doing fine, I cant wait to see the progress.
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Note to Parnell and others, Hackberry also has those sub-annual rings mistakenly called "lunar rings". Don't let that stuff fool you or you will end up in a wrap-around sleeves dinner jacket with the pretty, pretty shiny hardware and buckles and booked into the Ricochet Room at the Rubber Ramada.
I tried chasing one of those lunar rings and went loonie. (Yes, this is what did it, now you know.)
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Thanks SLIMBOB! hard to hold a pulley and check it though. may put some pegs on it.
I got it bending pretty well at brace height. long story short, cant string it, need to make a new string, make/find/redneck some string wax.
Also I found some kina concerning marks on the back (back violation). Ill get pictures tomorrow as my phone is set to the side today.
Jw dont you mean you went Luny!! ;D ;D
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Thanks SLIMBOB! hard to hold a pulley and check it though. may put some pegs on it.
I made a jam cleat for my tree. Works great.
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I have plenty of raw beeswax. If you want, I can send you a bit. No charge
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Thanks josh! Ill pm you!
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I think i'm going to recurve the bow too. I found a "easy" way of doing it. meaning i don't need my dad to help me bandsaw a form. I'm going to tiller it to 20" then set the recurve in. is that OK? what would you do?
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also will dry heat and oil work to bend recurves in?
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Tiller check please?
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I'm thinking inner right, outer left and right, and middles fine?
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Left limb looks to be a tad weaker than the right. Hard to tell for sure but check it. Take your straight edge and check the bend. Love that unbraced profile! Looking good.
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Yep, with that unbraced profile, you should be able to get pretty far by using the straight edge or gizmo...it doesn't look like there are any dips or other irregularities to account for.
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Thanks guys! Ill get working on it soon! probably be able to get some real work done when wrestling seasons over!