Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: darinputman on April 24, 2020, 06:52:32 pm
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I've built a few selfbows over the last few years and have messed up many more during the process. I'm very lucky to have had Eric Krewson as a teacher on my first hickory bow. It was a very good shooter, but turned most of my attention towards osage after that. I recently watched the fire hardening video, read the somewhat lengthy thread about it on here and decided to give it a try. I have to say I'm thrilled with the results after having made a couple of bows with this method over the last couple of weeks. I am cooking one now as I type. I have never been able to do anything near this with my heatgun. My favorite osage bow just took 2nd place to a hickory bow, I would have never thought that possible. This process may not be new to all of you but has given me a new tool in my bow building arsenal.I only hope that through the heat of summer it will hold up to my expectations.
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Think I may be able to post a picture now.
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What is the difference in performance you are getting with this fire hardening? Nice tiller on that bow too.
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Hopefully this will be a shot of the belly, hickory 51#@28".
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Sleek I have never shot a bow through a chronograph before but I ordered one so I could judge the difference between the bows I was making and gauge my improvements. My 65" osage bow also 51@ 28 shot 159 to 164 but has been shot many times. The 68" hickory bow was 165 to 169 but has only had a couple hundred shots through it. They both have 12 strnd 8125 continuous loop strings on them made by me. I owe the tiller on all my bows to the tillering gizmo but thanks anyway. The osage bow also had more deflex put in when I spliced the billets. The hickory bow is also very easy to shoot for me. Of course that could be length plus handle design.
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Darin,
Your unstrung profile tells the story...Nice bend and balance...Like them stiff outters
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Very nice job!! Held the profile beautifully.+
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Thanks Donald, thank you Badger, I believe if I can get the heat/color closer to the tips it would hold even more profile. But it may not be as easy to shoot. Thats a goal though.
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Nice work!
The profiles are looking very good!
I can't imagine the fire toasting is so much different to heat gun treatment ...
maybe I should give it a try
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Thanks simson, I've never been able to do anything close with a heat gun. Then again I'm not as experienced of a lot of yall. But I really like this method for hickory. As far as osage goes I've ruined 2 staves using it and burned up 1 caul with 1 of the staves, but am getting better. I do plan on useing it on osage again just not as extreme as I do on hickory. I'm up late cause I was doing another tonight, trying to get some color a little farther out to the tips. Gonna see if I can tiller well enough to hold any more reflex. I think it took it pretty well. Almost no springback when I took the clamps off and color is on out the tips for sure. I do try to rough the bow out really close to finish dimensions though so thats always a risk. So far I've been able to do ok.
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Very fine bow! I love hickory too. Jawge
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Thanks George
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Could you outline the method of this fire hardening process please. I haven't seen the DVD but have heat treated plenty of bows over the years and i'm keen to try it out. Bit kinder on the wallet too haha!
On your caul you appear to have the reflex concentrated just out from the fades. If you have it flatter through the handle/inner limb section and the reflex progressively increasing as you move along to the tips you will find it easier to hold it in the finished profile. Thinner wood can bend further so your mid / outer limbs can hold reflex better than thicker near handle limb.
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Thanks for the advice on reflexing bownarra, I got my pit just simple blocks laid out that I put my bed of coals in(I use charcoal) and set my caul on holding my bow up above the heat. Hickory seems to be able to take a lot of heat but I have ruint 2 osage blanks using the same process. Will try osage again but not near as low to coals as the hickory. I heat about 2 hours on this bow. If it doesnt get dark enough I just do again. Everything I tried so far has been just basically doing what the dvd said.
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Here some pictures bownara if it would help.
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My dad told me about that as a kid. I never did it exactly like that, but I have roasted bows over a camp fire coals using a spit set up. Worked great. Keeping your clamps from damaging must be a trick
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Thanks for the advice on reflexing bownarra, I got my pit just simple blocks laid out that I put my bed of coals in(I use charcoal) and set my caul on holding my bow up above the heat. Hickory seems to be able to take a lot of heat but I have ruint 2 osage blanks using the same process. Will try osage again but not near as low to coals as the hickory. I heat about 2 hours on this bow. If it doesnt get dark enough I just do again. Everything I tried so far has been just basically doing what the dvd said.
that is a sweet bow! looking at this is pretty dang cool! a well made white wood bow can out do a osage bow easilly. all of the really fast bows on here (at least the ones ive seen) have been white wood bows that have been heat treated!
one thing is osage doesn't need to be heat treated. it already has amazing tension and amazing compression. but if you do heat treat osage, you definitially dont do it like you do with white woods. white woods need the added compression strength but osage doesn't so youll see a big improvement with white woods but with osage you wont see as much. so i just suggest not heat treating a osage bow, ;D
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Thanks for the advice deerhunter.
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Ok so the dvd doesn't mention any additional steps. This would appear to be just like 'normal' heatgun heat treating but over a bed of coals? From what I've seen of bows made with using this fire hardening process is that they are treated to a dark brown/black. Most of my best whitewood bows have been heat treated very thoroughly. Our ash (fraxinus excelsior) is transformed when treated to basically black.
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Bownarra that seems to be the general thoughts of most. My heat gun skills are not yet capable of doing what this process does. When I take this wood off the caul the shellac on back of my stave is bubbled up, my moisture content is down to zero and I get almost zero springback off the caul. I personally have had problems getting hickory to take corrections which is one of the many reasons I like to use osage. Heat gun and boiling for flipping tips is the way I usually make corrections. I have tried steam but was not satisfied with the results, but that is probably my inexperience with the process.
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Bownarra that seems to be the general thoughts of most. My heat gun skills are not yet capable of doing what this process does. When I take this wood off the caul the shellac on back of my stave is bubbled up, my moisture content is down to zero and I get almost zero springback off the caul. I personally have had problems getting hickory to take corrections which is one of the many reasons I like to use osage. Heat gun and boiling for flipping tips is the way I usually make corrections. I have tried steam but was not satisfied with the results, but that is probably my in experience with the process.
I think the idea is a solid concept, but the hassle of a coal pit that large, and accounting for the height above coals for temp control as they burn down, what a pita. However, if it works for you and makes you happy, do it. It sure does leave a nice even color when you get the set up right.
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Bownarra that seems to be the general thoughts of most. My heat gun skills are not yet capable of doing what this process does. When I take this wood off the caul the shellac on back of my stave is bubbled up, my moisture content is down to zero and I get almost zero springback off the caul. I personally have had problems getting hickory to take corrections which is one of the many reasons I like to use osage. Heat gun and boiling for flipping tips is the way I usually make corrections. I have tried steam but was not satisfied with the results, but that is probably my inexperience with the process.
I get the no spring back and bows' back shellack stuck to the form using the heat gun too.The heat gun I use has 2 heat intensities and speeds.Highest is 1100 F.Next is 500F.
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BowEd I always seem to get the shellack stuck to the caul, but once I break it loose I always also get springback. Don't know how hot my heatgun gets but is a porter cable 1500 watt gun. But I never have seen my shellac bubble up and cooked off the bow like when cooked over coals. It scared me a bit the first time as I thought I had ruined another bow. Always had a hard time getting hickory to take reflex with my gun but now I have a way of inducing it. That is why this old method that is new to me ecites me a bit. If the bows don't try to get a little bit sluggish during the summer heat being stored in my shop I will definately be hooked. Just another method I learned to use in building bows. I also have enough hickory on my place to build as many as I should ever need. Can't wait to try the sweetgum, that is ome tree Ive always considered trash, got plenty of it too. Thanks
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BowEd I always seem to get the shellack stuck to the caul, but once I break it loose I always also get springback. Don't know how hot my heatgun gets but is a porter cable 1500 watt gun. But I never have seen my shellac bubble up and cooked off the bow like when cooked over coals. It scared me a bit the first time as I thought I had ruined another bow. Always had a hard time getting hickory to take reflex with my gun but now I have a way of inducing it. That is why this old method that is new to me ecites me a bit. If the bows don't try to get a little bit sluggish during the summer heat being stored in my shop I will definately be hooked. Just another method I learned to use in building bows. I also have enough hickory on my place to build as many as I should ever need. Can't wait to try the sweetgum, that is ome tree Ive always considered trash, got plenty of it too. Thanks
You figure out how to build a good bow of sweet gum and I want a lesson from you!
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Sleek, they seem to be prouder of their sweetgum than any of the others they built on the video. Definately the fastest, not sure about shootability if that's a word, but look forward to finding out one day.