Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on January 31, 2016, 07:21:41 pm
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I just noticed that it looks like my arrow rest is cutting a groove in the bottom of my arrows. I tried to take a picture but it won't show. The marks are on the bottom of the arrow, not against the bow, and are about 3-6" long starting right in front of the fletching. I'm using 4 arrows, spined between 34 and 36#. The heavier arrows are worse(a clue). The rest did have a sharp edge, you can see where I sanded it. My string nock is set at 7/16" above the rest. Could the string nock be a little higher, along with lower spine, maybe. It's a 42# bow.
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Are you getting decent arrow flight right now? Any vertical wobble?
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Take the shelf off and make it into a real bow. Your hand won't leave a mark. ;)
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Soooo many variables, but to make it short, different tiller vs different shooting style may need a higher nock placement. If there's that much contact you would see the fletch kick up upon release...How's the arrow look in flight? Don't be afraid to take the nock point up until it's corrected...I have seen them 3/4" and more above 90 degrees.
Don
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Take the shelf off and make it into a real bow. Your hand won't leave a mark. ;)
It will leave a mark on my hand instead ;D The arrows wobble sometimes. Haven't noticed porpoising. I'll try messing with the nock tomorrow, it's getting dark now.
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Soooo many variables, but to make it short, different tiller vs different shooting style may need a higher nock placement. Don
What difference in tiller would do that? What is the relationship between tiller and nock height?
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Do a forward khatra!11! or move the rest down or something, tiller it so the arrow goes over the rest but flies straight
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Do a forward khatra!11!
A what????
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tiller it so the arrow goes over the rest but flies straight
I don't think I have ever read anything less helpful. It explains nothing. Sorry
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Not saying you have bad tiller DC...Is upper limb tillered positive, negative? shooting styles/finger holds, grip, limb timing will affect your fulcrum point/nock travel upon release...Especially with the self bows we build, no telling what can go on...If you arrow flight is good you may want to put some padding/fur on the shelf...
Don
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Neutral tiller, 6 7/8" top and bottom, 11" out from the middle. I did find that the top limb is 3/8" longer than the bottom. Not sure how that happened :-\
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I don't think I have ever read anything less helpful. It explains nothing. Sorry
Or just nock higher. When shooting off the hand, the way to avoid getting cut by feathers is to nock higher. But sometimes that results in the arrow flying with the tail pointing up, in which case the bow should be tillered differently... or maybe gripped lower? I'm not sure. If the nock point is too high, arrows fly with tail up, right? Or down? I don't remember.
Do a forward khatra!11!
A what????
https://www.facebook.com/713115765475844/videos/886239568163462/
ha ha *shrug*
Disregard it, I guess. Only worth it with thumb draw and then I'd only do the sideways one.
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If I tried that with a 70" bow I'd be walking funny for a week. :o :o I still don't know what khatra is. Is it flailing the bow around after release?
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If I tried that with a 70" bow I'd be walking funny for a week. :o :o I still don't know what khatra is. Is it flailing the bow around after release?
Pretty much, caused by force or torque applied while the bow is drawn. Forward is you just flail it forward, which I've thought was just to compensate for an unbalanced bow but apparently gives a speed increase. Sideways can help reduce friction and makes the bow act more center shot if done properly, which japanese and korean archers do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9pcei7cRcU
sorry for the off topic. Just nock higher of you can? :P
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When shooting off the hand, the way to avoid getting cut by feathers is to nock higher.
A popular myth. The way to keep arrows from cutting the hand is to taper the quills gently down to the shaft and put a drop of glue on the forward tip where quill and shaft meet. Never a cut when this is done, even if the arrow bruises you because it is nocked too low--which of course you would change after one bruise.
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Nocking higher works for me, and makes sense O_o
Good luck tapering the quill gently down to the shaft with flu flus.
How is nocking higher a myth? I don't have to do anything special to my arrows and haven't cut myself in a while.
Well, I guess that works for avoiding getting cut if nocking too low. Or you could use a floppy rest or a leather glove, which could end up messing up the fletchings, probably. I don't mind getting cut once in a while to know I'm nocking too low. As long as I don't get feather buried in my skin...
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I have filmed these videos with real high speed camera. Hopefully these help!
Nocking point too high:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j1EoHfjftQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUOuHH9GojQ
Nocking point too low:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKIlomh-kos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6QZKibWbhE
Bareshaft, nocking point too high:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfNXxJwniYE
Bareshaft, nocking point too low:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6lf5MDG00
And, the right nocking point!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCsED0f-CV0
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Take the shelf off and make it into a real bow. Your hand won't leave a mark. ;)
haha jee wiz. we shoot trad cuz real bows dont have wheels. then go primitive cuz real bows are wood. now no shelves allowed too? im buggered!! XD haha
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Thanks Tuomo. On the "Nocking too low" vid you can see the back of the arrow drag on the rest just where I said the marks were on my arrows. I will raise the nocking point. I've bookmarked your Youtube page. I've looked for your videos before and had trouble finding them. The color ones are really good. the b&w are a bit grainy for my old eyes. I think there is a lot to be gained by watching these very closely.
When I raise my NP what would be a good increment to move it, 1/32",1/16, 1/2"?? I suspect it will be sensitive but what's the normal try.
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its not that complicated
there are lots of variables,,but try to keep it simple
if you change everything at once,, who knows what the issue is
I don't think you said how long your arrows are,, or what your draw is,,,
I would start there,, get the arrow to shoot as good as you can first
then adjust the bow
I would try a 50# spine arrow cut to 28 inches or 29 inches,,,
and move the nocking point up first,, that should do it,,
unless the tiller is way off,,
an unbraced,, braced,, and full draw photo would help us "guess" especially the braced for me
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Do a forward khatra!11!
A what????
Lol, I about died! DC, ignore loon and me, we're some those crazy horsebow guys that shoot off the wrong side of the bow with fancy jewelry on our thumbs, lol.
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Nocking higher works for me, and makes sense O_o
Good luck tapering the quill gently down to the shaft with flu flus.
How is nocking higher a myth? I don't have to do anything special to my arrows and haven't cut myself in a while.
Well, I guess that works for avoiding getting cut if nocking too low. Or you could use a floppy rest or a leather glove, which could end up messing up the fletchings, probably. I don't mind getting cut once in a while to know I'm nocking too low. As long as I don't get feather buried in my skin...
Nocking higher is not a myth. It being the way to cure feather cuts is the myth. Saxton Pope, Robert Elmer, and most other early archery notables trimmed the quills of their feathers down leaving no abrupt edge that could cut a finger. Then they added a drop of glue to the point of the quill to ease the transition even more and to ensure that the quill did not come loose at the leading end.
If you get cut "once in a while" when nocking too low (and that's the only way you know) something is wrong.
As for trimming flu-flus, if they are straight fletched with 6 feathers, that is no problem. If they are spiral fletched, only one feather has to be trimmed, and that is also not a problem. This image is before the drop of glue is added.
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Agree PatM; take the shelf away. It´s unnecessary and many bows seen on these pages with glued on shelves look like they´ve got tumor on otherwise beautiful bow. Modern bows with cut-in shelves are another story.
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It sounds like a tuning issue. I wrote an article about how tune selfies for my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/selfbowcare.html
Having said that...a few bows ago ...I just could not properly tune the bow, which had a glued on leather shelf, for nearly perfect flight. I removed the shelf and the arrow flight iproved considerably. PatM's suggestion is a good one to try.
I've always done as Jim suggests. I skyve the leading edge of the fletching. In fact, I wrap that area and the entore area of the fletching as well.
Jawgem