Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Piddler on January 26, 2022, 07:38:22 pm
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Guys and Gals, If you would look over the photos and help me out with the tiller on this one. Its just wavy enough to not work well with the Gizmo (thanks Eric for that device) I usually use. The wood is Osage 67 inches tip to tip and 65 1/2" nock to nock. Currently at 41# at 20 inches. The draw photos are all at the 20". Was originally wanting to get 50 or 55 at 26 or 27 so we'll see where it ends up. It is bracd at +- 4 3/4 from the back of handle and +- 5 3/4" from back of fade area. handle is still 1 1/2" tall. I had to decide on the upper limb placement already so it shows in the pics on some. The more knotty limb ended up on top. I had to thin the handle to make some string alignment with heat. Also done some heat work on the limbs for alignment. Fades are 1 3/8" wide tapering to 1/2" at knock. Still got some narrowing I can do there. So far during tillering have lost just under 1/4" to set. Lower limb is about 1/4" more reflexed than the top limb.
Thanks Piddler
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Probably more inner limb bend than I would go for. Would get the outer 2/3rds working more.
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Thanks Ryan.
There is a dip right at the fade on the lower limb that looks a bit hingy really not. I'll work on the outer limbs to get them bending more as recommended.
I forgot to add that I'm gonna reflex the tips a bit if that changes anybody's opinion on anything. Should use up about 4 1/2" or so of limb to make that curve.
Piddler
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Would get outter limbs bending more
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Guess I have just got a different eye, ??? looks pretty good to me over all. I would move forward. :)
Pappy
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I agree with Pappy. Looks good to me.
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Thanks Fellas. The crooks don't look bad in the photo but they mess with my eye on the tiller. Latest photo at 24" at #50. I have one limb wanting to twist slightly but will be fixable. Recurved one limb this morning and will do the other tomorrow. All critics and suggestions welcome.
Piddler
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Maybe a little more towards the fade , especially the upper one. Pappy
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Thanks Pappy, Will do. Got a couple inches to go.
Piddler
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That should get you there .😉
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Don't remove any wood until you have the recurves bent in....
Recurving the tips will alter your limb shape (of course this depends how much you recurve).
You are both shortening the limb and adding a lever on the end.
The shortening of working limb will raise the weight some but the recurve gives more 'advantage' over it....
It is sensible to get the stave bending some (thin enough) before recurving but personally I'd have done it earlier.
Once you have the curves bent post another picture of it braced and at a short draw before pulling to weight (to avoid any issues...;) )
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Good advice bownarra.😊Pappy
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Thanks Pappy and Bownarra. Probably should have put in the curves earlier but oh well. Seems like the wood removal- tillering went faster than usual. Will heed the advice for the next one. I will post photos when we get back to tillering.
On with the story, just gonna stay on this same thread as I go. Put in one curve yesterday went ok with no issues other than maybe getting back some of the original bend that I had straightened with the heat gun. I'll have to correct it again. Second curve done this afternoon did ok except I lifted a splinter at the bottom of the nock groove. I don't think its lethal but would like opinions as well. Didn't look at it close as I was getting the clamps on. Looks like it traveled 1/2" or so. SO Question is CA thin or tightbond III to try and put it back together. Photo attached. It has a clamp there so it's not gaping open like it would without it.
I boiled these for 30 minutes so don't know if I bent it too fast or should have rounded the corners more (Know I should have) but what is done is done and I'll save it if possible. Curves aren't too big. I'll give it a couple days to rehydrate and the glue to dry and we'll get back to the tillering.
Thanks again fellas for the comments and advice.
Piddler
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I would just fill with ca and clamp, clean up and move on, shouldn’t cause a problem. Pappy
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Thanks Pappy
Piddler
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I do like bownarra and flip my tips earlier. One other tip. My first recurve I got fooled by the early string tension and thought my bow was heavier than it really was. It came in under weight.
I’d just soak it with super glue
Bjrogg
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Yes that happened because the edged were far too sharp.
To bend a recurve safely.
1 - soak the tips in water for a few days (not strictly necessary but boy does it make a difference)
2 - chase the belly to one ring
3 - round all edges
4 - boil for 30 mins per 1/2" thickness (whole tip underwater)
5 - move fast!
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OK, dumb question: Is "flipping the tips" the same thing as "bending in recurves"? I hear that term used a lot, but nobody's ever spelled it out for me. (I'm in the slow-learners' class)
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I'm not an expert, but I'd say "flipping the tips" is adding a smaller curve to the tips then "bending in recurves", but wait for an answer from a more experienced bowyer
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Ok fellas, gave it the CA thin today. Should be OK. Gonna let it heal and rehydrate a bit. I'll have to dry heat some of my alignment back in as it changed a bit with the boiling.
bjrogg, I'll do the next ones earlier than this one. bownarra has the same recommendation. Tillering just seemed to happen fast and I'll watch the weight close when I get back at it.
bownarra, Thanks lots of good info. Things from your list. 1: I did NOT pre-soak limbs. good suggestion, 2: It was on one ring so good there. 3: I had forgot to round these edges. I did round the other side and it did not split guess I forgot or got in a hurry. Good lesson there although painful. 4: I did boil for 30 min. 5: I moved fast but I'm wondering if not too fast on the bend. Does one kind of work it in or just go for it. I bent it faster than the other side.
I'm gonna lay most of the blame on not rounding the edges. I knew better just didn't do better. Like the presoak idea though. I bent some before on a short black locust and didn't have any issues. Gonna have to finish that one someday.
Whistling Badger, Zugul, I'm gonna call them small recurved tips but Not positive of the correct terminology either. The more I learn the less I figure out I know. Heck I'm still struggling with draw length determination and been shooting bows for a long time they all just had wheels. Seems it would change with every handle section depth. Isn't it something like 1 3/4" forward of grip area. Kind of in the slow learner class as well Badger. Oh well.
To all the people new to this craft, some good tips here from people who have the experience and knowledge.
Thanks for the tips guys.
Piddler
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Well gonna show a photo of the small recurved tips. Let it heal a day or so get it straightened up and be back at it.
Piddler
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Looking good. 😉 Pappy
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That photo is quite distorted for some reason. It's normal when clicking on the attachment though.
Piddler
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Hope this doesn't post twice couldn't get the first reply to work.
Anyway, Got back to the bow. Lost some weight trying to get some limb twist out that I wasn't paying attention too till to late. It's currently just a hair under #50 at 26". Seems I don't pull but to 26 anyway so not biggie. I have made a couple scrapes mid bottom limb after the photo but nothing drastic. Seems at this stage a little goes a long way. Hope the photos aren't distorted had to resize a lot.
Also, Tips are still a bit over 1/2" at the tip. Any idea how thin I can get them before they start bending. Thickness is a bit under 1/2" and what is a good way to watch for movement.
Thanks,
Piddler
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Looks pretty darn good bud.
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I agree with Ed. Looks pretty darn good.
As far as how much you can thin the tips. I usually keep stiff area of static’s just slightly thicker than bending area of limbs just before the stiff area. As I move closer to the tips and recurves I thin them in a slight tapper much like the working limb portion. They like the limbs will have less stress as you move to the tips.
A couple things to remember though. Don’t get to thin on one side so your tips twist. It’s better to have a little extra weight than to have them unstable and twisting. At least till you get a feel for it I would suggest you error on the side of overbuilt.
Looks like a shooter to me
Bjrogg
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Looks very good to me, nice job. :BB
Pappy
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Looks good, Piddler!
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Thanks for the help, advice and kind comments fellas. Appreciate the comments on the tips bjrogg. I took them down just a little but are as you say probably overbuilt. I didn't get carried away though so may lose a little speed. Fair trade off I reckon. The reflex seems to amplify any limb twist and already had that fight don't want another round.
I'll get it finished up. Thanks again.
Piddler