Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blayne on April 07, 2017, 04:09:59 pm
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I have never done one of these before and it seems like a good way to learn from the experienced fellows on this site.
Last spring I was given this log of Pacific Dogwood from a tree surgeon who had come to remove danger trees from the campground where I was working. As I was chatting with him before he began his day I of course asked him what kind of wood he was removing, and if he took out anything interesting, 6' long, to save it for me. Hoping there were going to be some yew on his list, of course, but there weren't. He did mention dogwood, and I said "sign me up!" So as I am going around picking up all the firewood sized pieces I see this nice big dogwood log, 7' long. It weighed a ton! Not really but holy cow it was a bugger to load in my truck! I got it into a back shed and split it in half so it could dry and lighten up. It sat there all summer until the Cumberland Woodbow Gathering, which was at the same campground. I decided it would be cool to split half of it into four staves for three of my friends from PA, Wizard Goat, DC and Tree Ninja.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_5276_2.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_5276_2.jpg.html)
I have the most experience with yew and a few boards, and have had a hard time with white woods. My biggest problem has been trying to get the tips to line up, using heat to get the wood to move. So for this build I am going to be diligent to make sure that everything stays lined up so I won't have to deal with this problem.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6858.jpg)
(http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6858.jpg.html)
This is the stave. Two of the staves split out nicely but the second side started to run out, so DC took it home and cut it in half with his bandsaw.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6859.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6859.jpg.html)
So of course I start with a string line to line everything up.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6860.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6860.jpg.html)
Then I layout the limb profiles. Making the limb 1 1/2" wide until 12'' from the tips, then tapering down. The stave is 70" long and I hope to make this one pretty heavy, 70lbs or so. I want a training bow to work up to warbow weight!
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6861.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6861.jpg.html)
I laid out some thickness lines so I have something to follow along while I hatchet and draw knife the belly.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6862.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6862.jpg.html)
Here is the stave after the initial rough out. I hope to get more work done on it soon. I will post more photos as I get them. If anyone has any feedback for me, I am happy to hear it:)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6863.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6863.jpg.html)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/IMG_6864.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/IMG_6864.jpg.html)
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Nice project.Looking good.
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Your bark didn't pop off. On mine well over half the bark just popped off and fell on the floor. Might be drier than yours.
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Nice stave. I would think it would be difficult to lay out out a bow centerline without removing the bark so you can follow the grain line. Did you just try to center it on the stave and hope for the best?
Russ
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Wow Don, my bark seems really stuck. I have had it inside since I got it back from you. Although it has been downstairs in an unheated room.
RB I am hoping for the best. I think the grain in this piece is pretty straight based on the look of the bark. I never though of that being a problem before...
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And it split beautifully straight :D
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Not sure if I've ever seen a log split so clean! Mine is roughed out in a pretty hefty blank.
Will be my 3rd pacific dogwood bow, great wood, would be cool if all 4 make a bow
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Not related to bow, does that pacific dogwood have similar characteristics such as common dogwood?
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Thanks for the build along Blayne - watching eagerly!
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Stalker I couldn't answer that question. This is my first go at this species, and we don't have any other here(aside from Osier of course)
Shofu, your welcome! It was your idea after all lol!
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Stalker, pacific dogwood is very similarly to the flowering dogwood east of here.
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Have you worked both Wizardgoat? I never had access to Eastern and was curious?
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Blayne, couple of more questions
Is wood enough dry for working it into bow, or you will rough it out and clamp it to finish it drying?
Why did you leave limbs so thick? Do you tend to leave your bow limbs every time so and proceed to tiller it with many shavings or you mark later taper along the limbs and work to it?
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Brian I've made just one bow from eastern dogwood, and 3 from pacific.
If you told me they were the same I'd believe you.
The 4 DW bows I made all have very distinct contrast between the pink and white wood.
This log is pretty much completely salmon coloured, maybe because it's size
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Stalker this wood is dry. Was felled last spring, split in half then, and we quartered it in September. It has been inside ever since. So I am just rocking on with it.
The reason the limb profile back to belly is so thick is because it was a reference line for my hatchet work. I didn't know how much tear out there would be so I gave my self lots of room for messing up lol! Will be working them thinner with my draw knife, then rasp.
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Cool, I am looking forward to this build a long. I have some experience with common dogwood (cornus sanguinea) and this wood is probably totally different than your dogwood.
Only similar thing I found is when I googled "pacific dogwood" is that your dogwood has similar leaf to mine, and that's it. Probably behaves different than mine also.
For example, when wet, common dogwood here has really stinky odor and when tillering, one has to pay attention to knots on back as they seem to be like from another type of wood. For example, if one would to make warbow out of it (possible), if it would collapse, it would surely be along the back knots which seem to be softer than rock hard sap and heartwood.
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Stalker, knots and pins are known to be a weakness in PDW as well.
My helped my brother in law make a bow, a pretty straight PDW stave with
a good amount of knobby grown over broken branches. I don't remember the exact
specs, it was around 50#, and was shooting 500 grain arrows in the high 170s.
Very stiff and snappy, even with no heat
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Brian I've made just one bow from eastern dogwood, and 3 from pacific.
If you told me they were the same I'd believe you.
The 4 DW bows I made all have very distinct contrast between the pink and white wood.
This log is pretty much completely salmon coloured, maybe because it's size
I have one to cut that is just off my land that is close to 30 inches at the base (best guess) has 3 distinct logs that make up the tree that are pipe straight.....I can't say how rare this is around here...most are relatively small. I will get a pic with a tape around it. The color is the same here.
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Blayne, I just stripped the rest of the bark off my quarter. If you carefully cut the outer bark with a draw knife as close as you can without cutting the wood then spray it with water, a little spritzer bottle is what I used, it softens the under bark in a few minutes and it will scrape off with your fingernail Just work your way up and down the bow and you will have a pristine back.
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Thanks Don. I will be working on this stave again soon! I did that with my past yew bow, it worked excellent!
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I spent a little more time on it today. Taken the thickness down even more, so now it is rasp and floor tiller time!
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/E61F1910-FFAE-496D-BD17-2E7AD39B7175.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/E61F1910-FFAE-496D-BD17-2E7AD39B7175.jpg.html)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/40898E66-BEC7-46E5-B22C-9875FE6ECC40.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/40898E66-BEC7-46E5-B22C-9875FE6ECC40.jpg.html)
The bark is a poppin!
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/1D9BF97F-5337-4C6A-B65E-B94A24B506D7.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/1D9BF97F-5337-4C6A-B65E-B94A24B506D7.jpg.html)
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What we thought was really straight is quire roller coastery. Mine looks just like that for some reason ;D ;D ;D
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I know the one limb is like that, the other is totally straight. Looks like that one might a challenge!
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Following along. Received a Dogwood log from our apartment building. Just wish i had some wedges and sledgehammer... )-w(
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Sorry its been a while. The honey-do list got in the way! Anyhow the bow has taken shape pretty well. I almost totally screwed up by taking too long to put a short string on it. Once I did it was coming in almost where I wanted it.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/A9CC6D2B-9BEB-4941-B424-EC6A15111E1B.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/A9CC6D2B-9BEB-4941-B424-EC6A15111E1B.jpg.html)
Removing the bark was pretty easy. It is time consuming and I am always scared to violate a growth ring. My trusty Mora 2 knife and a spritz of water here or there(thanks DC) got it cleaned up nice!
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/5D4FCB3C-7A70-421C-A195-18F98AD131CD.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/5D4FCB3C-7A70-421C-A195-18F98AD131CD.jpg.html)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/AD4E61BB-0466-407A-A34F-96F177BE20F1.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/AD4E61BB-0466-407A-A34F-96F177BE20F1.jpg.html)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/89E33D39-D741-41DE-8125-D63830C8650C.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/89E33D39-D741-41DE-8125-D63830C8650C.jpg.html)
It sits now at 70lbs at 30" after a little more sanding and scraping. A bit disappointed that I missed my weight by about 5lbs, but I will just have to build another one!
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/73F45437-8654-4E82-959C-D9E81B81554F.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/73F45437-8654-4E82-959C-D9E81B81554F.jpg.html)
Hope to have some action shots soon! Thanks for looking.
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I want to see it bent!! :D
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Here ya go Don...
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/0D3D4726-D992-49E0-88D7-5FB0FDF1F1A1.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/0D3D4726-D992-49E0-88D7-5FB0FDF1F1A1.png.html)
Too bad this happened shortly after:(
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/E5CA0F1A-1383-42A4-AE66-4896A29C75F6.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/E5CA0F1A-1383-42A4-AE66-4896A29C75F6.jpg.html)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn146/tailgate77/972C4946-A80A-46AA-9BE7-BFB6B1729F31.jpg) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/tailgate77/media/972C4946-A80A-46AA-9BE7-BFB6B1729F31.jpg.html)
Dang knot! I was a little worried about it, from what I heard about dogwood. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. I guess I will build a heavy yew bow now☺️
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Oh crap! Was it the top limb that broke?
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It was the bottom limb. The snakey one is great lol!
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Too bad that was looking good. Did it snap at that deflex spot out of the fade? Cheers- Brendan
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Yes I believe so. Thats where that knot was. I was pretty excited about it being a shooter. Oh well, got a couple dozen out of it before. R.I.P. Lol
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Aw man. Sorry for your loss. Nothing ventured nothing gained!
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Blayne,
knotted areas should be left a little wider and tillered to appear slightly flatter than the rest of the limb.
Jawge
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Thanks George, I will remember that for next time:)
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Sorry, Blayne, nothing like after the fact advice. LOL.
There have been times when I didn't follow my own advice and the result was a broken osage bow...among others.
Jawge
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To get advice you need to ask for it lol. I believe what happened was I left the bark on and was pulling it off as it loosened during floor tillering. This knot was holding down the bark so I didn't see it until I got to removing it this morning. So that was my error. The bow still may have broke but I could have left the limb wider and even reduced my draw weight and length. It was still a neat piece to work on. Shaping wood never gets old, success or failure:)
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Like I said, dogwoods are weird with their knots seemingly made of a different wood!
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Nooooo! I was really enjoying watching this bow be made.
Eric
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I had this exact same break in a vine maple almost bow. Lifted at the knot, but brokea few inches from the knot. So is the solution to leave the area on either side of the knot a bit thicker to prevent the lift? Maybe I just answered my own question, but I wouldn't have foreseen this until it was too late.
Eric
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From my experience, leaving just a 0,5" of wood around knot seems to disable problems, but at the same time I am aware that different woods respond differently. Maybe these dogwoods really need a lot of wood around the knots to disable possibility of breaking.
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Super bummer Blayne! That was looking great - how did the wood feel compared to others when you did shoot it?
G