Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PatM on April 16, 2014, 10:53:09 pm
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I will be attempting a build-along featuring a replica Grumley Deerslayer. I will be substituting Elm for Osage because I want it to be as good as possible. >:D
I just cut a piece of elm exactly 63 inches long and split it in half, preserving the half with the flattest side for the potential bow.
I am going to try to bend very thick tips to attain the classic static tips formed from a single piece rather than adding laminations to thicken the tips in order to form the brush nocks.
Here is my selected Elm trunk before and after splitting. Check out the lucky final growth ring. Thickest of the bunch!
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0917_zps074cd9c0.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0922_zps32b0a0d5.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0919_zps6ad988be.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0920_zps3762a19f.jpg)
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Ambitious. Please continue.
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Yep, keep it coming pat
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Ambitious. Please continue.
+1 ;D ;D
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I was thinking about how cool it would be to carve the brush knocks from one piece of wood. Eager to see how you get those bends with the thick wood.
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Are you going to bend it while it's green?
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I'll watch this one. Gonna be a cool project, nice stave.
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Ambitious. Please continue.
tt, always stirring. ;)
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Looking forward. That is one straight piece of elm.
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Very cool idea. I'll be waiting to see what comes next.
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I've never seen elm logs before. Is this stave typical of elm? So straight and true.
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Elm is very prone to growing a long clean trunk before branching. Particularly when it is coming up through a canopy.
You still have to look for a perfect trunk that is say 7 feet of clear wood with no branches or recently grown over knots and capable of being quartered.
I see many trees with at least one clear side but I'd rather get at least 2 staves from a tree before cutting.
Definitely the number one tree up here for reliably supplying clear wood with a minimum of time looking for it. Even with the blight taking its share. Saw two trees today that were flawless except for being dead and rotten. >:( On the plus side I found 3-4 more perfect specimens that are healthy.
Formerly the tree attained a typical tropical tree form. A buttressed trunk with a long clean bole and a vase shaped top. Still see plenty of medium sized trees that show promise of reaching those dimensions again.
I should take some pics of those trees.
I will be bending the tips while the wood is semi-green. It seems to be even more pliable then and require less heating.
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Thnx for the info Pat.. I'll be watchin' this one closely.
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Excited for this - let me know if you ever need help cutting those elms Pat. :)
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Doing all the cutting myself keeps me young ;D I'll make sure I get you a stave though.
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Elm is a great wood for steam bending - so you have a chance! >:D
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Interesting project,looking for to seeing this one come along. :)
Pappy
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Interesting project and be tuned in as well.
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I hope that Elm doesn't do the twist, as Elm is prone to do
Good luck
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I find if it's left in half log form it tends to just pull into uniform reflex. I'll be quick drying this one so it probably will twist to some degree. Plenty of opportunity to torque it back into line when recurving and heat treating though.
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Nice stick. Looks like it finally was cleared of over head sun blockage in its last growth year, it really thickened up nice.
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Ambitious. Please continue.
+1 ;D ;D
Sorry, Pat... didn't mean to offend! JDub cracks me up sometimes. O:) Always stirrin' the pot!
A build like this is on my bucket list, so I look forward to following your progress.
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I find if it's left in half log form it tends to just pull into uniform reflex. I'll be quick drying this one so it probably will twist to some degree. Plenty of opportunity to torque it back into line when recurving and heat treating though.
Yes I have been leaving the Elm I cut kerfed but left in log form till nearly dry for many years now. It's when they twist sideways that it's annoying. You may want to consider reducing it to near bow dimensions then clamping it down to something strong and straight
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I do notice that, particularly if you square up the sides of the stave immediately and leave it deep in profile. It's like it gives it another potential "back" surface to dry into what amounts to sideways reflex.
I'll leave it in half form for a few days to see which way it wants to move.
This piece is unusual in that it has the typical stringy fibers of elm but no interlocking grain. Don't see that very often at all.
Not sure if it has something to do with cutting it in the right "phase of the moon" but the moisture content is not dripping wet as I would expect from a tree cut in Spring (sort of) and growing in a swamp.
Also seems bit lighter in density which if coupled with high elasticity seems to make a nicer elm bow.
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I do notice that, particularly if you square up the sides of the stave immediately and leave it deep in profile. It's like it gives it another potential "back" surface to dry into what amounts to sideways reflex.
Good point, hadn't thought of that, but it becomes pretty obvious when you take a moment to think about it.
I'm getting antsy to see the next stage, always thought those Grumley's were dead sexy and a very fine design. If this one works out, I can foresee a lot of elm trees facing their demise across the country!
Don't rush the wood, but on the other hand, don't keep us in suspenders for too long, Pat!
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I can afford to rush things since I have several back up staves. No signs of twisting or warping so far. That usually happens almost immediately.
I made billets out of the two other staves from the log and I'll be test bending the cut-off portions to see how this tree reacts to steam before I fully commit. I've only seen one elm that refused to bend. It usually bends like a noodle with steam or boiling.
I figure I need to bend a solid inch for this to work the way I want it to. A tall order.
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Yup, like I said, ambitious! Good luck, and keep posting pics!
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Revising that decision to do a one piece brush nock. It would actually require at least an inch and a quarter of wood to do that. I have been browsing pictures of solid Grumley's and can't find a single definitive image of one that has a single continuous piece of wood on the tips.
I was pretty sure I saw one years ago but looking closer at other pics shows the same type of wood and a good glueline perhaps giving an illusion of a single piece. Especially when the patina of age blends everything together.
Many others have a different type of wood altogether which makes the picture much clearer.
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I squared up the stave and then peeled the bark which stripped off and left a thin layer of sticky cambium(sap wasn't fully up). A few minutes with a spoon cleaned that all off.
Here's some pics of that:
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0936_zps3321124e.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0938_zpsb205d926.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0942_zpsce38267b.jpg)
Then I began shaping the limbs into that sort of willow leaf profile with long fades and a very slight Mollie profile in the last 5 inches to make the bends easier. The limbs are extra wide at this point. The stave needs a few days to dry now since it works well with a hatchet but rasps poorly. It is like wet string right now and fuzzes up too easily.
I did most of the work with a hatchet.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0953_zpsa42af339.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0951_zps337306b4.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0949_zps50a298ee.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0954_zps1e4135bd.jpg)
All done while my overseer yells "advice":
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_0932_zpsaa6637fd.jpg)
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I thought I was the only person in the world to work a bow with a spoon! LOL! Do you sharpen yours, too?
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Was sort of wondering what that little scraper was, so it's a spoon eh?
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I would never sharpen it. It goes back in the kitchen when I'm done with it Someone could cut themselves while eating cereal. ;)
Seriously, when it is dull it can be used aggressively without potentially taking any wood off as well. It plows the bark off and simultaneously bones the back which I consider a good thing. It is not a scraping of the cambium that I am going for but basically like using your fingernail to remove tape.
Reduced the stave a bit more and trapped it to the back today. Ready to put the bends in over the next day or so.
More pics coming even though I sense this isn't very riveting stuff. :-\
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I'll keep the spoon thing in mind, I need to debark a pretty large dogwood stave, would probably be a good tool for getting the soft inner bark and come of the cambium off. Tends to be a good number of pin knots that a spoon would be good about not cutting into.
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Hey Pat...hows this one going? Will it be done this decade? :P ::) .... :laugh: :laugh:
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Oh it was done last year, just not as a Grum. The steaming of the tips failed to retain that all in one thickness of the brush nocks that the best of the originals have. Didn't bother with the rebuilding up process of glued on bits. Already done that enough.
So it's just your typical static Elm recurve that you can find anywhere on here.
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Well cool...lets c it. Ya know sometimes our preconcieved idea of what we want to do to a stave doesnt go the way we thought,and ends up something a lil diff....but even a simple recurve is still sexy in my eyes(and others as well im sure) ..so lets c the goods ;) 8)
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Pat it seems like you make awesome bows. Would love to see you post a couple some time
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Should have used Osage.
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lol