Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bitterman on July 12, 2018, 11:21:31 am
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Hi,
I'm from Ontario Canada and going to make a Bow for my son who is 13. He is big for his age and want the bow capable of hunting deer in the future and that means a 40lb bow at 28"
He is strong for his age, but I still think this is too much for him.. so I expect will end up making 2 bows.. or more as I learn.. will see what I get if I can do a 41 or 42 lb bow.. and see how he handles it... if its too much I will just tiller it till its lighter and a good shooting weight and make a hunting bow later on when he is ready.
Looks like I have a decent ash log to slit into staves. for ash I have see 2 methods, 1 that you remove all sap wood and the other that you leave the sap wood.. whats best? I want a reliable bow that will last him a life time (I plan to over build it and I know that will sacrifice some arrow speed ).
I'm looking for a decent white oak, ash or hickory to make a board bow possibly also for myself.. but will depend if I can get a piece with no grain run out (Or thick enough I can fix it.) with the perfect horizontal grain
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We will see. Most likely going on the longer side. for my sons draw length is about 26" vs my 28" draw. thinking starting with a 68" bow
Bruce
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Bruce welcome to PA. Funny I know a really nice bowyer named Bruce with the same last name as your username.
For ash harvested during the growing season simply remove bark and the cambium layer right under bark. During growing season it should just peal right off. It should leave you a perfect back with no reason to chase a ring. Unless it has bug damage then it's probably junk anyway. Aren't any live ash around here anymore. I would guess your right about making more than one bow.
Good Luck and have fun. Post pictures and ask questions.
Bjrogg
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Just my 2 cents here.....A person can just shorten a bow as he gets stronger to pull more poundage.It won't change the tiller any if equal amounts are taken off each tip.Popping the bark off leaving the wood under that to be your back of the bow for a self bow from a stave.
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I agree with Ed. You can make a longer bow to a lighter draw weight to start out. It'll give you a better chance of success to. Then later if you want more weight you can shorten it to gain weight.
Also I forgot to mention after you remove bark and cambium put a couple coats of shellac or some type of sealer on back and ends. You can remove some wood from belly side to help dry faster.
Bjrogg
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Thanks Guys.
I used bitterman as my full name is Bruce Itterman.
The log is about 8" maybe 9" the tree is alive but dying.. its at a friends place so need to see if the ash bore got it or not.. We ill see.
Bruce
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I wouldn't use Ash from that scenario. The under bark layer is probably riddled with tunnels. Lots of good Elm in Ontario. See if you can get some of that. Better and more versatile wood.
Where are you located in Ontario?
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Most the ELM in my area (near ottawa) are dead.. and the new ones that are growing are maybe 3" in diameter max and twisted pretty bad for the most part (the 2 I found)... I will definitely keep an eye out for them.. I do know were some 6" ironwood is and that is a possibility but a pain to work with. I have some hickory,, but don't want to cut them... one is about 16" or bigger in diameter.. others are smaller.
I am going to check out the log at my friends place.. as its free.. and will see fast once its cut how bad or good it is.. can always make fire wood if needed.
I have 2 places/wood specialty shops I might be able to get a hickory board.. just not got there to look. white oak is an option.. I have some nice dry sugar maple also but not sure any the boards are the right grain.. or long enough... the wood was from a tree cut on our sugar bush. I'm not worried about finding the right piece of wood.. I will get something... then the fun begins.
Bruce
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Unless things have changed drastically in that area there is a lot more Elm out there than you may assume. Even with the blight, Elm is very prolific in regenerating and a lot of the trees are a good deal larger than 3 inches.
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Hey Bruce, the Wood Source has dressed lumber in dimensions that are good if you don't have the machines to rip wider pieces. Some oak, ash, elm, even some hickory. Kjp hardwoods has bigger pieces that might need to be planed. Turned some hickory from them into backing strips. I haven't lived where I can cut trees in a while so can't be of much help. There is maple around too though
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My site may help you.
Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
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Thanks everyone. Those are the 2 local suppliers I was mentioning. Maple is easy have a sugar bush at my disposal
Thanks for the site Jawge
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Just got word my friend is cutting the tree this weekend. So will get out to pickup the logs next week.
Here are some pics. looks like its nice and straight.. Will know more if bugs are a problem next week when I pick it up.
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Well I got the tree and this weekend I started making a bow with one the staves after splinting the staves out.
This tree must have dies last fall as was about 12% based on my moisture meter so I took one the worst twisted staves... I know did not make it easy on myself for a first bow.. but figured be a good learning experience.
I got a bow roughed out and rough tillered.
Not sure what lbs it will end up but was able to get to brace height at 70" long. It will be 68" and about 66 1/2" KTK
I was able to get it to full draw with the longer knocks.. so the lbs the bow will go up. Rather than picking a weight, I got it started tillering and then had my son pull till he was getting a little uncomfortable. Then would stop... tiller and light things till could get to his full draw slowly and still not be shaking. This is comfortable for him to pull right now.. so figure will be removing wood for finishing and to tweak the tiller.. so once shorter should end up about were it is now. I wanted it to be comfortable for him.. Guessing I think its about 35 lbs.. but I could be totally off.
The wood is not seasoned as well as I would like so this is just for learning and going through the process. It was about 12% .. better that the other staves still at 18% (Very humid here this summer so that's typical of air dried lumber in my area with a more humid summer like we are having.) The worst tree I cut at the farm was 25%
I might use a heat gun to try doing some re-curves on it also and this will help deal with the set. I got about 1-2" of set on the bow with the tillering I did..
Honestly don't expect it to be a great bow. Its 1 1/2" wide and I did this so will be a lighter pull weight for my son. Will make a real bow later.
Now that I am at this point I had already learned so much and be better prepared for the second bow. (Still need to finish this one once it dries some more, then I will finish it and do a leather wrap on the handle, cut the limps shorter and put in proper knock.. I might even do knock overlays with some deer horn )
If it turns out really nice, I might just get some sinew to up the bow to hunting weight. That's definitely another option. But thats most likley just dreaming as their is one area/flaw in showing on 1 side of the limb about half way up.. so we will see if this stands up and if it breaks. I tillered based on bend and that area is a little thicker.. so I think its a weak spot in the wood.
Was interesting I layed out things based on a string so was straight, but as I worked the stave the whole thing moved about 1/4" so the bow has a slight curve to it. I corrected this in the tiller though.. would have been perfect for a lefty... but the son is right handed. Just means will need to figure out what spline arrows to make.
I will try to get some pics soon and also check the draw weight at 28".. My son has a 26" draw so will be a bit less than at 28" the max I figured the bow would go as that's my draw length. I could anchor in pretty well with the bow.. and it felt good.. so we will see. but I am used to a 76 lb compound. Much different game with these back to basics primitive bows.
Learned so much already.. and as with anything the more you learn... the more you realize there is soooooooo much you just don't know and need to learn.... Can't wait to start on a properly seasoned stave.. and get a nice hunting weight bow for my son.. (would like one for myself also and that means 40lbs at max 28" draw for here) and something for me to shoot while he shoot this once its ready. Be really interesting to spend time with someone in the area that is experienced.. I bet just a weekend of learning would really move me forward light years.. I looked for courses but did not find anything in my area.
Bruce
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Here are pics used a scale its about a 30 lbs pull. This will go up with shortening the bow.... but should be about right for shooting for a 13 year old.
Its not finished yet.. I left the tips a little stiff in case I re-curve them.. not sure whats best there.. The tiller looks better than I expected for my first try... But please comment and help... as I am very new to this.. maybe the tiller is horrible... I do think the low lib is a fair bit stiffer than the top.. but it is shorter.. never done this before..
Thanks for the help,
Bruce
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Very impressive! Sounds like you made it pretty quick and still got a good bend out of it. Now build MORE!
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Thanks now time for some arrows :)
Need to pickup a board to give a board bow a try (will go much slower on this one and go for 45lbs at 26" and whatever it gets at 28" so my son can deer hunt with it and I can still shoot it and will still work for him as he grows)... I am thinking hickory as it should be very durable. We will see.
Arrows are next so can shoot the bow in.. also want to let is dry some and get it down to 8% if I can, then finish sand.. and oil finish. I think I will but a small re-curve in the limb.. enough to account for some the sting follow.. and also make it a little more zippy.. I will chrony it when its all perfectly dry sanded and finished.
Can't believe I waited so many years to try making a bow.. Its a blast.. will keep working at things hopefully get better at tillering.. and make a better bow each one I make. WE will see how many bows it takes till making something respectable.
This one was only a Saturday and Sunday so maybe 2 days to get to this stage
Bruce
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Excellent tiller on that bow! Very impressive. Jawge
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Thanks Jawge
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I like your tiller Bitterman. Your not totally cured ash will take more set than a totally cured one would. I personally probably wouldn't recurve the tips on this one. It would probably make your set problem even worse. I think I'd keep that one as it is and call it my first respectable bow. I'd recommend making a bow for yourself and another for your son. Drawing his bow an extra two inches might not seem like much but it will cause more set and wear it out faster. It is probably long enough to handle it though so on a dry cured stave might not be a problem.
Look forward to seeing more bows in future. It'd be great to see some hunting stories to.
Bjrogg
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Great bow there. Congrats. Nothing like making one for your son.
Tiller looks good to me. I agree with Bjrogg. Sand it, put a finish on it and let your son shot away. While he is shooting this one you can be working on the next. If you try and recurve and it goes bad then your left with nothing. You done good, let him enjoy your hard work now :) mike
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Thanks guys,
I have been already pulling it to 28" for tillering etc.
I am letting the bow dry out more over the next couple weeks and then I will sand it with my son (will put him to work on it actually ). I have tried and true varnish oil to put on the bow.. I think that should protect it nicely. I have some cow hid to use for a handle wrap.. but might look for a piece of deer hide. Need some beaver pelt for string silencers also and some b50 to make a proper sting once its all done and ready for its real string.
I need to cut the limbs down a bit (1" on each end). the bow was designed to be 68" and 66" from notch to notch. I was think of putting tip overlays on to dress things up a bit.. if I find an deer shed.. would use that I think.
I expect only thing son will use this for is target practice, squirrel and rabbit hunting.
Should I try heat tempering it? Would help with drying further but I am afraid might cause a crack.
1 down 100's to go, thanks for all the help in info on this site without it I could not have done this!
Bruce
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I'd give it time to dry before shooting anymore. If you have AC in your house, that should be enough to do it in a few short weeks. A small scale helps....keep weighing it until it stops losing weight. Then check tiller again. I understand how hard it is to wait on things like that with your 1st bow :)
Heating very well may cause cracks. It may also change your tiller more than you expect when already drawn to 28" . Most folks seem to heat treat belly wood at 20 inches or so, that way they have room to make adjustments. Great 1st bow. Mike
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Thanks Mike,
thats exactly what I have been doing. I have been leaving the bow unstrung and in the house to dry. Limbs are stiffing up some so might gain some lb's once dry. Its getting to the point I expect I can sand it and clean it up soon.. In just over a week.. (It will be sitting for over 2 weeks at that point) I will be at the camp with my son.. and he wants to use it then, maybe get a rabbit.
I will be carefully that the tiller is not affected when sanding will keep it even as possible. Better to have an ok tiller at lighter weight than a ticking time bomb... so if needed I will tweak things but so far so good.
I am going to cut 1" off the end of each limp.. and then but the string groves in. This will increase the weight.. and should make it about perfect for his 26" draw. I will slowing work things out see if it will do 28" for me.. but I can always short draw it. Should be a bunch of fun for my son and me.. So nice to see such a nice smile on his face.
I am going to get a couple boards for sure to make 2 bows... looking for some hickory..
I might get some sinew for this bow for insurance and I know this will make the bow a bit snappier also.. Definitely taking all your advise on leaving things as.. and shooting this bow to give time to make him another better bow and one for myself. I might aim for 60lb for a bow for me and then lighten it once it breaks in nice to say 52 or 53 lbs at that I could legally hunt moose or even bear with it and would be decently fast for deer hunting. Totally different game with a self primitive bow than a compound..
Son is asking about flint napping also.. so that could be fun for him also. However not sure they are legal to hunt with here in Ontario Canada.
Bruce