Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on September 16, 2011, 09:27:31 am
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I have been a 3 under shooter since I started non-compound archery in the mid 90's. I have always struggled with arrow flight consistency and bow noise from my self bows or glass bows back then....always. If my hand pressure wasnt just perfect on the bow and my draw arm wasnt just perfect my bow would get loud and my arrows flew horribly. After 3 hours of frustration last night I decided to try split finger. It took a few dozen shots to get used to the new feel, but my bows all shut right up completely and shoot the best, most consistent arrows I have ever got from them. Almost made me cry I was so happy.........It will take some getting used to with a different finger in the corner of my mouth and different pressures, but the little shooting I did last night was the best I ever have. It also seems my bows are quicker. Im not saying split is better for all, or that 3 under is bad. For me, split is the way it seems.
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I have tried 3 under and never could get good arrow flight and bow was always noisy. i know some that swear by 3 under,it's just not for me. :) Most point of aim
folks shoot 3 under also to get the arrow more in line with the eye. :) O boy,now I have opened a can of worms,get out the popcorn. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Pappy
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Im not a point of aim guy Pappy, maybe thats why it never worked right for me? I cant help but notice my arrow at draw, but I dont use it one bit. I can shoot good in the pitch black dark as long as my target is visible. I anchor with my middle finger now, that still puts the arrow close to the same spot on my face. Maybe a touch higher. I even built my bows according to my style of drawing. It never seemed to matter how I tillered them. Negative, positive, neutral or anything else. They all shoot the same.
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With split finger you don't get that arrow slapping the shelf. I've always that good flight and my bows are super quite. With 3 under you also have to have closer arrow spine.
PD heres a little tip that will really help RELEASE with your third (LAST) finger down first. You'll get the same release everytime. Release with thrid finger and the other two just have to follow suit. With good release your bow will be exture quite.
Plus split fingers just feels more natural. When shoot instintive the more everything comes nature the better you shoot ( THE LESS YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT THE BETTER YOU SHOOT). I shot right off the wood ever sense I started building and hunting with selfbows 21 years ago. I've always had good arrow flight and a there super quite. IF THERE NOT LOOKING AT YOU THEY NEVER DROP AT THE NOISE. BECAUSE THERE IS NO NOISE.
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Thanks for the 3rd finger advice. I am anxious to try it out tonite. I took the fur off my string last night and the bow was still dead quiet after a touch of brace tweaking, plus a touch speedier w/o the weight on the string. I had 7 of my bows spread out on the deck last night shooting with a flood light on. I was so excited to grab bow after bow and get the same results. Perfect flight w/ a broadhead, and dead quiet. My "slow" 45# bows seemed to zip an arrow like never before. My wife finally had enough and told me to come in.
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Man that's excellent...
Sounds like you got a whole new set of bows.
:)
-gus
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Nice I'm pleased for you man
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Just goes to show you it doesnt matter how long you have been at this stuff, its never too late to learn or try something different. The plus is I have about 500 +/- arrows and shafts laying around my shop from all the experimenting I have done to get consistent flight over the years.
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Third finger?!?!?!
Is that the same as the one they call the New York Turn Signal?
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Thanks for the 3rd finger tip, that makes me even happier! I just have to remind myself (for now) to let the 3rd finger release the string. I cant stop thinking about the difference I am experiencing with this change in shooting. I went from 4" groups at 20 'ish to 2" groups, or better.
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One consideration that might be leading me back to shooting split finger is self nocks. When shooting 3 under the arrows need to be pretty secure on the string, or you end up dry firing like I did a couple of weeks ago when the arrow fell off at the last second. Making "pop" nocks isn't too hard, but it is difficult to make them consistent over a whole batch. It's much easier to just file a groove in the shaft that'll slip around the string.
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My wife finally had enough and told me to come in.
Serendipity... thats what you call it.... discovery by accident.. glad you had this discovery
Wives are so funny ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I guess it doesnt matter what state you live in ;) they all the same
Cipriano
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My wise ol' man always tells me "They are all sisters with different address'!". I think he may just be right? No offense ladies of the board.
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COOL GLAD YOUR IN THE ZONE.
Heres 3 other things that will make those 2 inch groups to and inch or under. This seams to help selfbows more so than glass. It did me.
FOLLOW THROUGH
When you release don't do anything untill your allow hits the target NOTHUING.
Next when you follow through don't try watching the arrow fly NEVER,NEVER stop looking at the spot you picked unto your arrow hits. This go's along with follow through.
Then it's # 3 I got this from a guy I worked for surveying. That knew and shot with HOWARD HILL. He said HOWARD always did this. And beleive me it tighted my grops down and it will yours.
Just keep your leather firgers or tab powered down. He has a rosin bag you see pitchers picking up between batters. I use arm and hammer I also use it as a sent elimanater.
I use'lly buck hunt 60 plus days and don't beleive in the sent spay thing. Beside think how many gallons I'd go through a season.
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I agree with that.
Lane
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Crooketarrow,
Are you saying that your release hand stays at your cheek/anchor point after release?
Just want to make sure I understand. :)
-gus
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Mine does and anybody that shoots accurate, repeatable shots should. If your hand leaves your face/cheek then the chance of "plucking" an arrow goes way up.
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Thank You Pearl Drums.
My hand stays put as well.
However I do see guys who finish with their hand up above and behind their heads, like they're waving.
Also have seen em doing motion with their string hand that looks like a guitarist windmilling on stage... :)
The term "Follow Through" always threw me in reference to Archery.
Always made me think I should be doing something.
-gus
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I have seen some crazy form through the years, and some crazy shots that followed! The hard truth is there really is one way to shoot, with slight variations of course.
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My wise ol' man always tells me "They are all sisters with different address'!". I think he may just be right? No offense ladies of the board.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Si senor
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I have seen some crazy form through the years, and some crazy shots that followed! The hard truth is there really is one way to shoot, with slight variations of course.
I've watched this thread with interest, but now I have to post. I have to respectfully and emphatically disagree with the above unless by "only one way to shoot" you mean to hold the bow in one hand and pull the string with the other. I've seen people with what appeared to be great form that couldn't hit a barn from the inside. I've also seen people whose release was a plethora of motion that were awesome shots. And, of course, the converse to both is also true. If you study every people group that used or is using archery you'll find a myriad of form approaches. Yet they succeeded in bringing home the bacon. There's nothing wrong with working towards consistency in form, but to assert that there is just one way to shoot is silly. Show me a dozen excellent instinctive shooters and I'll show you at least a half a dozen approaches to doing it well. The key to being a great shot has very little to do with form, and a whole lot to do with confidence and concentration. What I tell people I teach to shoot is this...practice until you're sure you can't miss. When you're sure you're going to hit the target and you've made that target as small as possible, you will. When you suspect you won't, you won't. The form you're using is irrelevant because by the time you achieve confidence you will have honed your ability using that form and made it second nature. At the moment of truth, when the deer is in range or the final shot in the tourney will mean success or failure, your ability to concentrate and your confidence in your ability will be what makes you succeed. Archery as we do it is mostly a mental sport. Yes, there's a need to develop form consistency but to try and adopt a certain form, believing it is the only way to do it, is not the best approach. In fact, over time you'll learn to use multiple forms successfully. During a typical deer season you might need to make shots that require alterations in form. You can pass those shots, but I prefer to be able to make them. I think the point to stress is that mental strength and concentration are the keys to great shooting. Form is third in importance, at least to me.
George
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Thank You Mr. G,
Although I find the term "Follow Through" more confusing than ever.
On the other hand, I see your point. Many moons ago, whether running through the woods bow
and arrows in hand, often shooting on the run or from horseback Comanche style, I was deadly.
My confidence was off the scale. I was ten feet tall, bullet proof, and the bringer of death to my
quarry. Squires , Rabbits, birds, all bound for the stew pot and dumplings.
Foxes, bobcats, coyotes and the neighbor's dogs, caught read handed in our chicken coup
all bound for the tanning board or the fence post. I was thirteen, read too many Louis Lamour
books, and listened to all the tales of my elders with rapt attention.
Form never crossed my mind. Putting meat on the family table consistently, was my primary
goal.
I didn't really have a problem with form until I got older and began shooting with other folks.
And then the wheelie bow further tainted my accuracy.
Now having come full circle, I find myself trying to recapture what I left behind.
If it sounded in any way that I was endorsing any particular shooting style or
that I thought I had a Lock on my own shooting style, I apologise. I do not... :)
Ever the willing learner.
-gus
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My point was much more simple George. The elbow cant point to the moon, the string hand really should stay tight to your face at release, and the bow hand should stay put until the arrow hits. The rest can vary from here to heaven. Im aware of that. Form creates clean arrow flight which creates accuracy. If you dont follow some basic archery rules your arrows will not fly consistent from shot to shot, not on target, but consistent, clean flight. Gus, you had good form back then and didnt know it. That why your accuracy was off the charts. Hitting a bullseye with your arrows sliding in sideways means nothing to me, arrow flight is where its at for me anyhow.
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I've got to thank you for starting this thread, Pearl. Not only have you convinced me to go back to split finger, but more importantly you got me to give a dead release a try. From the time I started shooting trad/primitive bows I've always followed through with my release hand to my shoulder. I never could figure out why I constantly got erratic arrow flight, but it looks like I was plucking like crazy. Been shooting the past couple of days with a dead release, my hand never leaving my face, and the arrows are flying like darts right where they're supposed to. I have to concentrate a little more to make sure I'm getting good, solid back pressure, but that's not too difficult.
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My pleasure Jonathan. I tried very hard for many years to get better with bad form, it cant happen no matter how hard I focus on a spot. Corrct form is correct form in my book.
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FIRST OFF YES my hand dose move backwards at my release. If it stays aginst your face your snapping your fingers open. George everyone has there own form even you, you do the same thing over and over thats form. EVERYONE DOSE IT A LITTLE DIFFERENT. But theres basics. You should do what comes natural to you. But you start with the basics weather you know it on not. The people that refine it shot better PERIOD. I KNOW THIS THROUGH HUNDERDS OF THOUSANDS OF ARROWS.
I suck and can pin point arrows but I can and do hit when in and 1 or 2 inchs EVERYTIME I'll say that again EVERYTIME. And it's through form compounds, long bows, recurves,selfbows even shot guns and rifles all start with the basic form. Ilove to shoot someone at 500 yards thats only shot a rifle a coup,le times a year. I shot bench rest rifles for 25 years. So I know if you don't have good form you won't stand a chance.
Heres another plus of good form people with good bow form. There bows shoot QUITER. I've shot off the wood for as long as I've shot selfbows. And I shot DEAD QUITE. Had lots of people shot my bows and have the arrow clink of the shelf.
I know you all have had someone pick up a bow draw it and you know right away if he shoots a bow. People that do have the basic form down and you can tell.
FOLLOW THROUGHS EASY. When you pick your spot at your release DON'T DO ANYTHING untill your arrow hits. To do this NEVER-NEVER stop looking at your spot untill your arrow hits. No matter where it hits. This is one of the most things that happens.
You don't want to watch your arrow fly you drop your bow arm out of the way to see. Touble with this is you drop your arm before your arrow has'nt compleaty left the shelf hand for some. If oyu want to watch your arrow fly flight shoot and give up hunting.
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I could say this for years my hand stayed agaist my fact. But ( COUPLE SUMMERS BACK) it's just more natural for my hand to move backwards at my release a COUPLE INCHS. If you release like I said before third finger first to can't pluck the string WHEN YOUR HAND MOVES BACKWARDS. This works good with a dead release also. I did it for years but you can pluck the if you creep forwand.
WHEN YOU RELEASE. With letting your hand move back at the release your always have back tention as you draw and release. so you never have creep which you can get with a dead release
If any of you get and arrow now and then to the left 5 OR 6 inchs it's then your letting your bow creep forwand that time. Just feels more natural to me to let my hand slide backwards at the release. Like I said release third figger down first you can help but do the same everytime.
LIKE I SAID DO WHAT COMES NATURAL after you learn the basics. Because if you have to think about doing any part of your shot when you do it. Your not shooting truely instintive. Your total concentation meaning you should only be thinking of picking your spot.Not if your ankors right or about your back tention. You shold'nt be thinking of anything put your spot. When to do this your form addapts to the shot. THIS IS WHY INSTINTIVE SHOOTERS CAN HIT AT DIFFERENT BODY ANGLES AND NEVER THINK ABOUT IT.
I ONCE SHOT A 10 POINT RUNNING BY A 5 YARDS. IT HAPPEN SO FAST I ONLY GOT TO HALF DRAW. Still got a middle of the deer lung shot. I also shot a buck out of a tree when he came up I could come to full draw because of a limb. I still hit him right whee I was looking.
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GUS no I don't do the waying thing. But my hand dose move back a couple inchs but not much.
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Okay,
I will focus more attention on focusing my attention and let my natural form sort itself out.
:)
May your string never break and your arrows fly true.
-gus
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Split finger and instintive shooting comes way more natural the qitetness just comes along with it.
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Third finger?!?!?!
Is that the same as the one they call the New York Turn Signal?
Hehehehehe ;D you're a funny guy!