Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: stickthrower on April 11, 2010, 09:30:40 pm
-
I am working on my first bow. I keep going back to Georges site for reference. I was really hoping I would find my 1st volume of bowyers bible, but I couldn't find that.
I have now reduced the stave alot, and got it down to where I am actually floor tillering it. I was shocked when I took a layer off, and was able to bend it. It was amazing to realize that I am really getting my first bow going and part way finished.
I have noticed though that I have twice now had to split a chunk off with my hatchet because of a split on the end of the stave. I wasn't sure if I would have to split that off or not, but figured that where the split was, would have caused issue when it was closer to being finished. I have the bow a bit long right now, and will have to reduce the length a little bit closer to time.
I have heard some people say that a first time bow maker shouldn't use a draw knife (and I don't have one yet either), so I am wondering, now that I have it down to this point, and I need to start bringing in the sides of the bow, what should I use to do that? I have not started to thin it down yet, but am hoping that I can get the width reduced a bit more. At the point where the bow is at now, not sure how I should do the limbs. One has a bit of a wave to the grain, so that side could be a bit interesting, but I like how the charactor bows look, so I am okay with that.
Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I will put a picture of the bow on so you can see where I am at right now, and see if you have any thoughts of what I am doing right, or what I should be doing differently.
Picture one is the current depth and width of te bow with my big thumb holding it up.
Picture two is a closeup of around the handle area.
Picture 3 is a view of the overall bow right now.
I am hoping to have the draw at about 55-60 lbs. I have read one place where you take the draw weight you want and add 20%, and another place said take your draw lenght, adouble that and then add 20%. Which way should I go to make the bow the correct lenght? I think both numbers are close, but not sure if I should be going for one more than the other.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Nathan
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Nathan, I think you should use a draw knife. No power tools yet though. I don't know who told you not to. Let's see what else until you get one. You could use a knife as a scraper and scrape the sides. But that's tough work. 3 Rives has drawknives. The one I use I inherited from my Dad. I'm glad you are using my site. :) Jawge
-
I use a variety of tools, I find a smoothing plane is handy on the edges as it gives a nice long controlled even sweeping cut.
Always alow an inch spare on either end of a bow, as while you are working it (especially with an axe) the ends will get damaged and have a slight endency to split. A bit of extra sealer on the end grain wouldn't do any harm as they can still be drying out a bit even if the stave has been seasoned (I use pva)
Del
-
You are close to finishing that bow. I would suggest a rasp type tool and then a cabinet scraper....go slow you don't have far to go..
-
I went out and picked up a draw knife and a surform rasp. I tried out the draw knife, and was having heck of a time using it. So I put that aside and grabbed the surform. I can now see why people love this thing so much! I was amazed at how quickly I was taking wood off.
I am still floor tillering it right now. I am blown away how quickly it the surform took wood off, and how quicklyit changed how quickly the bow has started flexing. I think I am going to have to go out this weekend and get a couple things to make a tillering stand to start checking it that way.
I will post some more pictures when I am a little farther along.
Thanks for all the help everybody.
Nathan
-
if you were using the drawknife with the bevel up you will have problems...remember bevel down and it will cut smooth,,mike
-
I haven't used a drawknife, but everyone else swears by them. I have used a surform, as a matter of fact, that's the only wood removing tool I used on my first two bows. I'm not suggesting that's the right way to go, but it's what I had to work with, and it did the job.
I know the one thing I mean to get my hands on, (and I"m kicking myself know, just spent 2 hours at the hardware warehouse store place and totally forgot) is a farriers rasp. It looks like it would be an awesome addition to the surform.
Best of luck, and I can't wait to see this bad boy done and shooting.
-
I use my farrier's rasp for most of my work. They eat through my hickory fine but not tooooo fast. I enjoy building almost as mush as launching (loosing ;D) arrows.
Have fun !!
Jay
-
My draw knife is like an old friend. Bevel up and it removes wood like crazy, too fast most of the time. Bevel down, like Mike suggested, and it's a power scraper...my favorite way to chase a growth ring. Osage and a draw knife go well together. I tried it on hackberry once and had a much more difficult time. Rasps and the like are fine on the bow belly, but I'd never use them on the back, just a scraper and draw knife.
Be real careful any time you're amazed at how fast a tool is removing wood. You're 60# bow will become 30# faster than you can blink.
Good luck!
George
-
Well, I am pretty sure I was using the draw knife bevel up, but I wasn't getting it to bite very well. So I am not sure what I was doing wrong.
I used th rasp and was doing one heck of a job on the belly. I went from barely bending when floor tillering to it bending decently floor tillering. So I am going to try to go after it again on the belly and then I am going to be making a tillering stick so that I can go to the next step.
Question though: Do I need to cut the knocks before I start tillering it on the stick? Or can I just tie it on about about where it should go? I still have the bow a bit long for what I am planning on having, but left it long in case I screw up.
I am taking a guess, but the bow is still probably up in the 80# range right now. It takes almost all I have to get it to flex. So I know I need to thin it down some more, but am wondering where I need to stop with the floor tiller, and move to the tillering stick.
Thanks,
Nathan
-
Nathan, i just noticed your sig line says "Sartell,Mn."
hey neighbor, i am in st.cloud
-
Hi neighbor! How you doing way over there?! ;)
Okay, first off, THANK YOU for letting me know I was using the draw knife wrong! I flipped it and WOW! Huge difference!
Second, I am a little concerned at this point. I am still kind of floor tillering; mainly just sitting one end on the ground, grabbing the top and pushing the middle to bend it; but I am noticing that the bow is already taking some set. I would guesstimate at this point that it is maybe 2-3" of set right now. I have not put a string on this yet or anything else. Am I pushing too hard when I am bending the bow that is causing this? Or what is going on that I have this going on already?
I heard a big crack when I was working on it earlier tonight, but when I looked closely at it, the only thing that had happened was a little bit of the underside of the bark popped up. So I removed that, and didn't have another cracking sound the rest of the time I worked on it.
You can see on the two pictures the set. Not really sure what to do at this point. If I should just keep going and see what happens or what I should do.
Thanks
Nathan
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
What kind of wood is it ? and how long ago was it cut ? Is it still green ?
-
Same question as John K ? It must be green,if so straighten it up and put it in a dry place for a
while. As far as draw knives I know it might be bass akwards but I use it bevel up,had no one to show me so that's how I started ,I have since try the other way when everyone told me how wrong I was but I still always go back to bevel up. :) Works for me. :) I also want mine razor sharp. :)
Pappy
-
It is hickory, and definitely not green. It was seasoned prior to me getting it, and it sat for probably close to a year here in MN prior to me working it.
It is a bit long right now, about 5 or 6 inches longer than I think I want the final bow to be.
I don't know if for my first bow if it is too narrow, it is currently about an inch wide. I don't plan on really bringing that in any.
Would it be bending like this if it had been standing up prior to me splitting off the stave I am working on? I don't think that the whole stave is curving, so I am really not sure.
The draw knife was working amazing well last night once I flipped it over. I couldn't get to work bevel up. Maybe now that the bow is all smoothed out now, it would work better bevel up. I just assumed that I would use it bevel up since it sat closer to the wood that way. Oh well. At least there are great people on here to help me figure it out!
So, again, thanks all! I am feeling kind of stuck now, not knowing what way to go now. I really want to keep working on it right now, but don't know if I should continue at this point.
Tp be perfectly honest, I really figured I would have brokein the bow a long time ago, not had it still holding up and actualy looking like a bow! I am pretty excited to see if I can finish it!
-
Was it stored inside ? An inch wide is pretty narrow for a 55-60 # bow.
Hickory will soak up moister like a sponge, i keep mine inside when i'm not working on them, over the heat/ac vent.
Good luck !
-
It has been stored inside. And when I finish working on it, it comes back in the house.
Well, for my first bow, it may end up being a bow for my wife instead of me if it is too narrow to be a 50-60 lb bow. ;)
I have been wanting to get her into shooting, so this could be a way I guess.
For a 50-60 lb bow, what width should I be looking at having the bow at?
Thanks
-
I'd start at 2 inches and go from there, i think it's better to have to much than not enough. You can always take wood off, but it's pretty hard to put it back on. Not sure why you got so much set ?
Good luck and have fun !
-
Well, then this will be a bow for my wife. I told her and she just laughed.
So, now I need to cut it down to her size. So, another question: What is the easiest way of figuring out a draw length? I know that her draw will be shorter than my own, but need to get that figured out.
I am going to be heading down to make a tillering stick tonight, and then start work on tillering. At least for my first attempt.
I will try to get some pictures of it as I go.
-
I have a 100 plus year old drawknife, and can rip 3/4" kindling slivers out of a hickory stave OR....shave "whiskers" with it. I keep mine sharp as bleeder blades. My technique is simple -- as mine is a "handle bar style" versus the straight model, I simply grasp the main body on the curves between my thumb and forefinger, and the other fingers rest behind the wooden handles. I can control the degree of bevel / cut and dictate how much pressure I apply like this. Try literally "standing" the blade of the knife on end and with slight downward pressure, slowly pull it toward you - even allowing the cutting edge to angle away by turning your wrists toward you. Basically, this dragging motion is in effect a seriously large scraper. Once you get a feel for the knife, you'll find that it will perform (it does for me at least) several tasks. Practice on a scrap locked in a vise. Learn the tool and it will become a useful one. Once I have a bow to floor tiller, it get's finished completely with the knife, and of course final sanding with paper. Good Luck !!!
-
Okay, here are a few pictures of the bow on the tillering stick.
It was a quickly made tillering stick with some spare wood I had here, and I made the notches with my table saw and just cut some thin cuts wide enough for a string. I grabbed some rope that I had for hunting, but I also found out that it stretches nicely, so I need to go out and get the string for a lawn mower or something that won't stretch on me.
Looking at the pictures, it looks like the one limb is still stiffer than the other. I have removed wood on it a couple times, and it still seems to be too stiff. Do I just keep slowly working the wood off until it gets to be bending equally?
Thank you all so much for your help on my first bow! I really appreciate it!
Nathan
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
About 4-5" from the stick on the right limb, you'll see that there is a lot of bend compared to the left limb, and both in general. You need to make pencil marks on the belly on both sides of that bend a few inches further out, and do not remove any more material until you've thinned the left limb, and the outer portion of the right. Remember that you're looking for a smooth continual bend. Don't get to anxious, and pull it farther now, or you'll induce an early set. You'll have to scrape a little, and put it back up - take a good look, pull it slightly longer, and repeat - likely MANY times. If you try to rush it, it will show. You'll be surprised at how little thickness the finished limb will have, but the key is to remove small amounts several times and check it after each removal. You've got a good foundation going - take it slooooowww!!!
-
Good advice barebo. Follow that stickthrower and you will be fine,slow and easy. :) If you get a hinge in Hickory it is hard to recover so take it easy and watch for areas that are bending more. :)
Pappy
-
try flipping the tips a little should give it a bit of zing!!
-
Not to hijack, but is there a How-To on flipping the tips? That's a new one for me.
George
-
dude looks like ya got a hinge in the making ther on the right limb
ya want some help?
i dont usually,more like never,make an offer like this
ya wanna come over with that stick and i'll try and help ya
not that i am an expert but i have made a few bows,not many as of late cause ive got rocks on the brain :P
but i would be wilingto help ya out.
-
Sailordad,
I would appreciate any help you would be willing to share!
Send me a message when you have some free time that you would like to get together, and I will let you know my schedule.
Thanks!
-
Having Sailordad show you the ropes will put you ten million words in posts ahead of the game. I wish that I had someone make me an offer like that when I started !!! Sailordad - that's just one Helluva offer and you get "hats off" for the gesture. Good Stuff happening here !!!
-
Just some comments about dknives. I've never used my drawknife with the bevel down. I can take of gigantic chunks of tiny shavings of wood just by varying the angle of attack. Stick, If you are using a knife now, don't. Put it down. Also you have to watch it with boards. If the grain is wrong you'll destroy the stave with a dknife. Turn around and remove wood from the other direction. I'd be using a surform or rasp now. Pretty quickly I'd go to a scraper like tool. Now about the bend in your stave. Too much bend in the handle area. Begin to get more bending mid limb on. A lot more. :) Jawge
-
I agree 100% with George -- I believe the drawknife was designed to be used bevel "UP"!! But......some guys use it down with good results for them. I wanted to explain how I use mine in effect as a scraper - I was doing it last night on my first Hop Hornbeam bow.
With steady hands and a feel for the wood, I can literally make shavings fine as hair. Of course it took ruining some good wood early on to get to where I am now.
-
barebo, it sure is easy to ruin a stave with a dknife. It takes practice. Everyone should use it the way they want to. Bevel up or bevel down-that's their choice. Dull or sharp their choice too. Drawknives sure are great tools. The one I use I inherited from my Dad who died in '89. I have no idea how old it is. But I keep it very sharp. It's the top tool. The middle tools are shavehooks which I use for ring chasing with osage. The bottom tool is a Swedish pushknife. I bought that for $6 in a second hand tool store. I use it for scraping. Once I string a bow that pushknife is all I use for tillering. I keep it very sharp too. I hate tillering sticks though. :) Jawge
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/Jawge/Tools/shavehooks.jpg)
-
Oh and the shavehooks are sharp too. :) Jawge
-
George, your knife looks a lot like mine profile wise. I hated to, but I noticed some lettering hiding under the patina/gunk of many years, and sanded it to reveal "cast steel" and a name that is too worn to decipher. What a piece!!! I don't want to hijack this thread,
so I'll start another soon. I want to see stickthrower get a shooter!!!
-
watching a stave get turned into a bow is fascinating for me. I love it, can't wait to see how this comes out.
Nice tools, George, thanks for showing them.
And last, minnesota in the house, yo, what a perfect day, eh?
-
I forgot to mention George, that I don't even have a tiller stick. What I just did for the current one, was use the long string under my foot and pulling up like stringing the bow and looking for flat spots. Thinned down the flats and in no time had a braced bow. Got in front of a mirror and did some partial draws - shaved a bit of wood - repeated. This one just wanted to be a bow!!!
-
orkraider, thanks. I do love that top dknife. barebo, I don't have a t stick either. Now a tiller tree - that's the ticket! Sounds like you made a nice bow. :) Jawge
-
To all:
This bow is now going to be sitting to the side until I can get some more experience.
SailorDad took a look at it, and I violated the growth ring pretty bad on the back, and have a couple hinges that have developed.
So, I am going to put it to the side until I get to a point I feel I can do a laminate bow. Then I will try to do that with this bow.
Thanks for all your advice that you have given to me on this bow. I greatly appreciate all your help on this.
I added another new post, if you check that out, I am working on a new bow.
Nathan
-
Well, stick, sounds like you made a good decision. Jawge