Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: RyanY on February 08, 2021, 08:21:52 pm
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As some of you know, the bow building communities on facebook are very active and growing. With that there are a TON of new bowyers out there. It has become extremely common for these new builders to heat treat on their second, third, or even first bow! Seems like it has become so pervasive that some believe it is necessary to make a good bow before learning to tiller well. I think it would be fun to show off our favorite non-heat treated bows as an example that it's certainly not necessary and better to walk before we run. I'll start off.
I made this bow at my third MOJAM in 2011. It is still the hardest osage I've worked and I recall clearly how my drawknife left a glass like surface on the wood. I've always wondered about the speed so if I ever test it and it performs well I'll share that at some point. From the original post. The second bow, the darker one, is, I guess you could say, an American flatbow. It’s 66” tip to tip and about 55#@28”. It’s 1.5” at the fades tapering to 1 1/8” at mid limb and tapering to 3/8” nocks. It is also 22.5oz and took about an inch of set. This piece of wood in particular I got from Timo and is by far the most dense piece of osage I’ve worked with. Use of a cabinet scraper left a glossy smooth finish. It was a pleasure to work with.
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Nice job on those bows. No, it’s not a necessity to ht the belly, but with certain woods like hackberry and elm, you will come away with a totally different performing bow. I don’t know if you gain much if any benefit out of heat treating Osage.
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I made about 150 bows without heat treating, it wasn't in vogue at the time, I do find heat treating a nice addition to one's bow making arsenal though.
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Nice job on those bows. No, it’s not a necessity to ht the belly, but with certain woods like hackberry and elm, you will come away with a totally different performing bow. I don’t know if you gain much if any benefit out of heat treating Osage.
Good point. White woods are definitely the ones being used most. Here's an old hickory board bow I made that took very little set. 50#@28" 66" ntn.
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I only locally heat treat spots that need a little correction. I get high 170s out of them without a heat treat. Thats osage though.
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How far back does heat treating originate?
Hawkdancer
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Just goes to show what can be done by matching front profile and tiller :)
Very nice bows there.
I've got a few hours to burn this morning whilst some glues cures...i'll see what I can dig out of my collection.
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I've never heat treated a bow. Don't really have any plans to either.
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I don't waste osage and have a stock of what I call the good, the bad, and the ugly, some is what we all wish for, hard and buttery, some is soft and whimpy.
In the last few years since heat treating came on the stage I can heat treat that substandard wood and make it into a good performer.
One place heat treating shines is on a BBO that once finished just doesn't have it, slow and lower poundage than I wanted when I started. I make BBOs out of wood that is not quite up to the selfbow quality.
The last two I made to donate to charity just didn't have it, the limbs kept shifting and wouldn't settle in, by the time I got them corrected I was low on poundage and had string follow. I thought " I can't donate these, they are dogs" and got out my heat gun, my reflex form and went to work.
I really toasted these two, I made them about 2 years apart. 5 years down the road bow #1 is still a stable rocket launcher with "0" string follow. Bow #2 followed suit with the same results.
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How far back does heat treating originate?
Hawkdancer
Probably as far back as bows have been made to some degree.
More recently it was used back in the 30s to rejuvenate old tired yew bows. It was 2002 when a small excerpt from a Ye Sylvan Archer mag was published in PA and Marc started experimenting and improving the technique.
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I think if you put heat on it to straighten or even put it on caul to achieve a certain shape . Then you need to heat the entire bow. No it does not have to be dark brown or smoking hot. If it’s a pretty even heat on the belly you are not chasing the hinges. Now we need to hear from the man himself. Marc .
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I'm certainly not trying to say that heat treating doesn't make good bows awesome. It just seems that it's become such a common trend that some people may not be learning to make those good bows first to take full advantage of the technique. The investment in time to heat treat is not insignificant. I think to get people into this hobby, making bows should be as easy as possible and this includes dispelling myths such as needing backings on boards or that heat treating is needed to prevent set.
Keeping the ball rolling, here's an infamous poplar bow. 66" ntn and about 50#@28". 10" handle and fades and 2.5" wide at the fades with a convex taper to 1/2" tips. Tip overlays are poplar as well. Took just over an inch of set and shoots pretty good.
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Ryan no beginners don’t have to start heat treating with there first bow. It’s an acquired talent for sure. What I was saying I think if you start with heat for any reason continue on the whole bow. Again maybe Marc can shed some light on this. I’m still learning by the way. Like I said it’s an acquired talent. Arvin
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Ryan no beginners don’t have to start heat treating with there first bow. It’s an acquired talent for sure. What I was saying I think if you start with heat for any reason continue on the whole bow. Again maybe Marc can shed some light on this. I’m still learning by the way. Like I said it’s an acquired talent. Arvin
That makes sense Arvin. Especially in areas where there's notable bend it could change the wood even slightly.
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I started 15 years ago trying to dry green wood on the caul! Not knowing anything about bow making. If there is a mistake I’ve made it. Learned a lot bough. Arvin
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I'm certainly not trying to say that heat treating doesn't make good bows awesome. It just seems that it's become such a common trend that some people may not be learning to make those good bows first to take full advantage of the technique. The investment in time to heat treat is not insignificant. I think to get people into this hobby, making bows should be as easy as possible and this includes dispelling myths such as needing backings on boards or that heat treating is needed to prevent set.
Keeping the ball rolling, here's an infamous poplar bow. 66" ntn and about 50#@28". 10" handle and fades and 2.5" wide at the fades with a convex taper to 1/2" tips. Tip overlays are poplar as well. Took just over an inch of set and shoots pretty good.
Poplar!? blasphemy! (lol) how did you get that to work? ive always been told poplar is a bad bow wood!
also... i feel like i know that place... is that the Marshalls rendezvouses place?! been a while! going there was one of the highlights of life! seriously lol!
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Heat-straightening is not the same as heat-treating and I don't believe you need to do one if you do the other. There are certain times that I do both at the same time but not always
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Yes Marc but I have had Osage seem to not want to tiller the same after maybe straighten one spot in a limb. Could have been a bad tiller day. I think we all have one sometimes. I go to the bench or caul 4-6 Times nearly on all my bows. So the hopefully last time I do the whole bow. Then is when I do what I call heat treat. Also 350 -400 degrees. Hand on hand off within 2-3 count. Tried the lazier thermometer. To much going on for the simple guy I am.
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wasn't there a guy that posted a few years back in the warbow section. he duplicated bows from dimensions taken from the mary rose finds, and tillered by hitting the more bendy spots with a heat gun?
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In my opinion, heat treating/toasting bow bellys is an advanced technique best left until after you have mastered the basics. But heat treating has become the new "sinew backing", another advanced technique.
It seems we all came to bow making with the desire to make a great bow, not realizing we could make A LOT OF BOWS on the way to making that great bow, and we all seemed to want that first one to be as good as it could possibly be. I am dealing with a potential student that I believe has that innate "something", but I cannot get her to commit to starting the bow, just keeps recalculating what the penultimate most bestest is supposed to be. Three years and she has not touched a tool or a stave.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Robert Watson-Watt, who developed early warning radar in Britain to counter the Luftwaffe, argued for a "cult of the imperfect", which he stated as "Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes."
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Yes Marc but I have had Osage seem to not want to tiller the same after maybe straighten one spot in a limb. Could have been a bad tiller day. I think we all have one sometimes. I go to the bench or caul 4-6 Times nearly on all my bows. So the hopefully last time I do the whole bow. Then is when I do what I call heat treat. Also 350 -400 degrees. Hand on hand off within 2-3 count. Tried the lazier thermometer. To much going on for the simple guy I am.
Yes that's true, that will happen after applying heat. Did you leave it hydrate long enough after? Applying heat in one spot will drive any moisture from that area further down the limb making that spot dry and the surrounding area with more moisture. That will definitely affect how the wood bends
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In my opinion, heat treating/toasting bow bellys is an advanced technique best left until after you have mastered the basics. But heat treating has become the new "sinew backing", another advanced technique.
It seems we all came to bow making with the desire to make a great bow, not realizing we could make A LOT OF BOWS on the way to making that great bow, and we all seemed to want that first one to be as good as it could possibly be. I am dealing with a potential student that I believe has that innate "something", but I cannot get her to commit to starting the bow, just keeps recalculating what the penultimate most bestest is supposed to be. Three years and she has not touched a tool or a stave.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Robert Watson-Watt, who developed early warning radar in Britain to counter the Luftwaffe, argued for a "cult of the imperfect", which he stated as "Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes."
Yes, there is too much info readily available now.
Paralysis by analysis is a killer for bowmaking now.
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You guys nailed it. Now post some bows! >:D
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I agree wanting to make a "perfect" bow can hang people up. I spent almost a year from tree cut to realizing my bow wouldn't work but since then my second bow is already almost as far as my first and it's only been 3 weeks. I hope mojam happens this year it would be so helpful to have experts in person and see it happen in real time.
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Ryan I would but I don’t have any. 😀😀😀sorry to high Jack the thread. Arvin