Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: loefflerchuck on February 26, 2018, 12:50:15 pm
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I've found super glue does not always last a long time as far as keeping horn or wood sections added to the tips of the bow. Epoxy usually works and just started using tb3 and so far none have failed. I'm talking about sections glued to the back used to cut knocks into. I've never had a handle splice fail on me, but there is a lot of strain on the tips from the string. I don't want to worry about a tip shearing off during shooting after 1500 shots or so.
I want to know what works best for you. Also totally smooth surface or shallow grooves.
Thanks for your help.
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I use nothing but Loctite Pro, zero glue failures over 100 plus bows. Its not cheap glue, but very worth it.
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I've used super glue, thin and gel, TBII, TBIII and 2 ton epoxy for tip overlays and haven't had a failure.
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I use the loctite superglue on all my tips. I get perfectly smooth and mating surfaces. I spread some glue on each piece and then put them together. I wrap them in rubber bands the entire length of the overlay to apply even pressure on it. No failures for me yet.
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I like to use a good thick superglue, but have used epoxy as well.
I’ve only ever had one horn overlay fail, from being too thin I think
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I use the same as Pearlie and Clint, never had a failure, but if you're not sold on it get some smooth on
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Chuck....I've dropped bows from a 10' height off a balcony onto cement/falling 6' off a bow rack onto a tiled cement floor and smacked them into limbs while shooting and hav'nt had a smooth on tip overlay of horn or wood pop off yet,and I shoot my bows a lot with fast flight.I would'nt reccomend the testing procedure though....lol.Roughened up surfaces of at least 60 grit is best for that stuff.Sized well with adequate pressure of a good spring clamp or locking hand clamp,but if buying a can of smooth on just for tip overlays the rest of the can could go bad before it gets all used up.I have had them pop off with super glue though and 2 ton epoxy even more so.
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I'm with those who mentioned LocTite. There are several "reinforced" superglues on the market, with ingredients added to increase toughness. Look for the ENHANCED superglue, not just gel or regular.
LocTite may be the best of them, though recently I have bought a couple bottles of this new (to me) stuff called DAP RapidFuse at Lowe's, and that's been great.
TB II AND III have worked great for me, too, but by that stage I'm usually super eager to get finishing the bow and don't want to wait that long.
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I use West Sysyems G Flex epoxy. Used it for years attaching knife handles. Properly used, with some scoring or texturing of the mating surfaces it does not let go. When I make an occasional mistake gluing in knife scales, I can eventually fracture the scales off but handle material and epoxy is still attached to the knife and must be ground off.
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I don't think tips are under a lot of stress. I often glue on temporary tips for tillering and they often stay on while shooting the bow in. I usually use tightbonb3 but have used anything from gorilla glue to super glue. I have had a couple of tips pop off when dropping a bow on its tip over the years. My permanent tips I use either smooth on or tightbond
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G-Flex is outstanding for toughness and shock absorption.
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Pat, how fast does it dry?
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It's a typical overnight Epoxy. Initial cure in 7-10 hours, full cure in 24. Like most epoxies it can be sped up with heat.
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I like the speed of CA. I have always been suspicious of it though. The only time I've had it let go is when a bow breaks. Twice I've had an explosive break with yew and both times I guess it shook so hard both tips came off.
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I definitely have had more problems with wood cracking or chipping up than any glue I have used.
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I've always found it odd that people have to be patient about so many facets of bowmaking but getting those overlays on has to be NOW. lol
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Well, guilty as charged. I have little patience for sanding, either.
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Once you find a fast way that seems to work it's hard to go to a slow way. I've never done them with anything but thick CA. So far so good.
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I'm thinking TB3 personally but I have used epoxy. But since I rubberband/clamp them too hard I worry about starving the joint since they work best with a micro gap. I feel TB3 would be a better option if you are going to clamp them on good (especially since you basically have to to make sure those suckers don't move).
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With epoxy you can drill shallow holes or score the wood. This allows you to clamp tighter and not worry about starved joints. It also provides mechanical hold, as shearing is the biggest weakness of any epoxy joint no matter how tough the epoxy is. This only works effectively with gap filling adhesives. I won't go into too much epoxy theory, but I am in the process of glueing up some knife scales so I'll take pics and do up a little how to for the forging section.
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I used superglue many times, a commercial grade, until I had failures. Switched to TB3 and never had a failure since. One thing about superglue is that it is a brittle glue and it may be OK on a lower stress design such as a straight limb bow but a recurve puts a lot more stress on the tips
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I think its important to include what you are using for over lay material as well. Horn, antler and wood require different approaches.
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I think its important to include what you are using for over lay material as well. Horn, antler and wood require different approaches.
I've wondered about that. What works and doesn't work for Horn or Antler?
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Thanks guys, loctite sounds like the plan. One problem I had with superglue was the design. The horn stuck out beyond the bow so when stringing was the only thing in contact with the ground. The other happened not on my watch so I can't be sure. Your answers give me plenty of confidence.
Pearl, both of the problems were with horn on wood. If that means another answer, I'm listening. I used good hide glue without problems in the past, but was wondering about a faster glue.
Thanks again for the help.
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With porous material like antler you need to size the porous section with glue, let it dry, sand it smooth then glue it to the tip. If you don't prep the antler first the glue will be sucked into the antler and starve the joint. Some glues are gap filling and others need smooth, well matched mating surfaces.
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I use a two tone epoxy for glueing horn tips.
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I get them mated well then prep the surfaces with a toothing plane blade held like a scraper, creating grooves parallel with the limb's length. I use Smooth On. Failure? Ain't happening.
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Horn is what I use 95% of the time, Chuck. Osage otherwise. I sand the horn and the bow micro smooth and clean it up with a dry rag. Add the Loctite Pro and gently clamp it down with spring hand clamps. The few times I've had overlays come apart wasn't a result of glue, it was poor material choices. I hold my work pieces up to a light to be absolutely sure there are zero air gaps. I want 100% perfect mating surfaces. With antler, I do as Pat mentioned. Back fill the antler until it wont take anymore, then I use the same steps I do with horn.
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New to the forum so please excuse my failure to understand some of the acronyms used here. In that regard, what is CA? Thanks.
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CA is "super glue". But, not all are created equal.
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Abbreviated CA, because superglue is Cyanoacrylate.
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Marc, That's what I figured about superglue. Sounds like the expensive stuff works better. I've thus far used the cheap superglue and epoxy. I'll invest in better CA and epoxy from now on
Thanks again
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Thanks ... I am going to have to start a PA acronym dictionary for myself.
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What u mean PA? :) :) ;)
DBar
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Bit late to the party on this one but I use TBIII it epoxy. Never even considered super glue really but might have to give it a go now...when I’m ina hurry ;0)