Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: The Burnt Hill Archer on July 02, 2008, 10:49:00 pm
-
Im not sure how this floats twards the no politics rule, so if i screwd up im sorry. but I just thought id give everyone the heads up. The pennsylvania game commission is tryin to get crossbows leagalized in the regular bow season again. >:( >:( >:( i read it in an article in the Pennsylvania Outdoor News. there is one commissioner by the name of Boop that is against it, but from the sounds of it the rest are all for it. There is gonna be a study done to see if it will effect the game in any way... but im pretty sure its a stacked deck. but thats not all...the only ones pushing it are the crossbow manufacurers!
quote,"The previous attempts at leagalizing crossbows for the archery deer seasons were all sparked by requests from crossbow manufacturers, dealers, and state lawmakers." - Wes Waldron UBP president (page 15, article Crossbows. Vol. 05, No.14 Pennsylvania Outdoor News)
The United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania are fighting it. and im not sure how to go about doing it, but im sure they would appreciate some help in the fight. probably a letter or phone call to the state rep would be a start.
I wasnt gonna post this, i figured somebody else probably would, but the more i thought about it the more upset it got. thanks for lettin me vent!
Phil
-
Thanks for the heads up Phil. Thats all we need to totaly screw up our already messed up archery season. First early muzzle loader, and youth senior rifle and now this. They'll have the whole frikin orange army out in the woods, we wont stand a chance at killing a deer with a bow. I hate the pa game commission. Thier all about making money and nothing about satifying the hunters wants or needs.
-
i guess i dont under stand the big deal over cross bows during bow season. whats so bad about that?
they are no more effective than a bow,for most they are only good to about 30-35 yds. most individuals will treat it like thier rifles/shotguns. a week or two before season theyll go out and shot it 10-20 times and figure thats good enough.
i do agree with you on the fact that its the manufacturers pushing for it. last year here they allowed it across the boards for gun season,no special gimp permit needed now,and the prices literaly doubled overnight because it caused a craze for it. it all of a sudden became the way to hunt deer during gun season,alot of gunners left the barrel at home and bought a new crossbow.
me myself, i'll stick to me stick ;D
peace,
tim
-
Are there any stipulations on who can use a crossbow? Oklahoma allows them but only to those with a certified disability. I think that is sometimes abused, just like the criteria to get a handycapped parking stickers. ::)
I hope it works out for you.
Mike
-
Are there any stipulations on who can use a crossbow? Oklahoma allows them but only to those with a certified disability. I think that is sometimes abused, just like the criteria to get a handycapped parking stickers. ::)
I hope it works out for you.
Mike
In Texas and Michigan for that Matter....you have to have a Major Limb Impairment before you can use a Crossbow during Bow Season....but what the way I read it....they are trying to open it up for all Hunters to be able to Hunt Bow Season ....with a Crossbow
-
Are there any stipulations on who can use a crossbow? Oklahoma allows them but only to those with a certified disability. I think that is sometimes abused, just like the criteria to get a handycapped parking stickers. ::)
I hope it works out for you.
Mike
In Texas and Michigan for that Matter....you have to have a Major Limb Impairment before you can use a Crossbow during Bow Season....but what the way I read it....they are trying to open it up for all Hunters to be able to Hunt Bow Season ....with a Crossbow
Mike I believe its for anyone 65 and older. Ryano you think your DNR is messed up come to Michigan and you will see corruption and politics like you wouldn't believe >:(
-
Until last year crossbows in Tn were only legal for handicap folks. They were allowed in the 2007 season, I'm not sure what impact they had. I'm hunting on private property, so it didn't really affect me. I would prefer they were not allow however.
-
I'm with Greg,hunting mainly on my farm,heck I don't even Let guns [except for the kids]
so it hasn't bothered me,but I will say it has brough a lot more none bowhunters to the woods.
Not because they are so much more efficient but because they are easier to learn to shoot
fairly accurate.I don't have a problem with being able to hunt with the cross bow, just a
problem with them in bow season. :)
Pappy
-
Pappy here in michigan anyone can use a crossbow during gun season and thats fine, you have to be partially or permanently disabled to use one
during bow season. There is a bill in Congress here to allow anyone 65 or older to use one in bow season >:( and its just a stepping stone to allow anyone to use one. DNR wants to sell more licenses so they can waste more money I guess ???
-
Good luck on trying to keep them out, they have been trying for years to get them into the bow season here in Wi.....so far they can only be used for people 65 and over or with a Docs note. It would be a bad thing i think if they were allowed into the regular archery season !
Good luck on you'r fight !
-
i guess i dont under stand the big deal over cross bows during bow season. whats so bad about that?
they are no more effective than a bow,for most they are only good to about 30-35 yds. most individuals will treat it like thier rifles/shotguns. a week or two before season theyll go out and shot it 10-20 times and figure thats good enough.
i do agree with you on the fact that its the manufacturers pushing for it. last year here they allowed it across the boards for gun season,no special gimp permit needed now,and the prices literaly doubled overnight because it caused a craze for it. it all of a sudden became the way to hunt deer during gun season,alot of gunners left the barrel at home and bought a new crossbow.
me myself, i'll stick to me stick ;D
peace,
tim
Tim, If you've never been to Pennsylvania during gun season you wouldn't understand. We have more hunters here than deer or acers of huntable land for that matter. Gun season brings out all the slather a## hunters that don't know what there doing, don't practice with their weapon and don't care about others, or there property. If they legalise cross bows for archery season everyone of these slather a##es with have one out tromping around the woods trying to put on deer drives and trespassing on private property like they do in gun season.
-
In short its not the weapon so much that bothers me. Its the A-holes it tends to draw in.....
-
Well said Ryan,that is kind of what I ment. :)
Pappy
-
Here in Western Canada, Xbow hunters can only participate during the muzzleloader season, which is 1 month after bow season opens. We have the month of September to ourselves. Works very good here.
-
im with Ryno about the people. that was my first impulse. and yes the "doctors excuse" is WAY over abused. 40 some thousand have been issued that way. i honestly dont have a problem with them if the guy literally CANT draw a real bow. but as Ryno sayd the salther - a**es that just want to get away with the easy way, ive got no tollerence for. in my opinion if it has a stock, a scope, a trigger, a safty, and can be caarried around the woods cocked and ready to shoot, it belongs in the gun season. JMO.
Phil
-
heck here in mn we have thousands and thousands of acres of public land. we have so many deer they allow bow hunting in some larger cities, thats right in the cities,
in areas around the mississippi river banks, less developed housing areas etc. even public land her can be very bountiful with deer all season long,bow season runs from early sept. untill the end of the year, and if one knows what he/she is doing you can nail monsters on public land.
even after they allowed x-bows during gun season,no major problem for bow hunters here. we generally give up those two weeks of the year on public land because of all the morons in orange that come out in masses for gun season here.lol
its more fun hunting after they are all done for the year. its usually much too cold for the average hunter out there in late dec.. if a person knows how to dress properly for the weather and the type of hunting that they are doing on that day,and you've done your home work for the piece of land,well i say let them hunt with their damn x-bows, they dont hunt when real bow hunters are out.
-
To use a cross bow here you have to be partially dissabled, not just a doctors note. The permit isn't easy to get even with the right medical forms. Justin
-
Here too Justin....the Laws in Texas sate...
ONLY a person with an upper-limb disability may use a crossbow to hunt deer and turkey during the Archery Only Open Season, provided the person, while hunting, has in their immediate possession a physician's statement certifying the extent of the disability.
An upper-limb disability is a permanent loss of the use of fingers, hand, or arm in a manner that renders the person incapable of using lawful archery equipment.
-
Here in Florida, the club I belong to, Traditional Bowhunters Of Fl , lobbied hard and defeated it being used during archery season, unless you were truley handicapped. It is legal during gun season.
-
Tim, Pa used to have a ton of deer to and we probally have more acers of public land than Mn does. Our wonderful game commission decided about 5 years ago that we had to many deer and they were damaging the forests. So they opened a 2 week concurrent buck and doe season and offered double the amount of Doe tags in effort to get the "Buck to doe ratio" Back in check. Well they pretty much thinned the deer heard in the mountain county's to nothing. Still a few deer left in the farm land county but the national forest is desolate. The difference is the absolute numbers of hunters. If you've never seen Pa on the first day of rifle season you couldn't possibly understand. around a million on the first day of rifle season! :o
-
Ryan, sounds like the National Forest lland here in western NC-I unfortunately know exactly what you're talking about. Crossbows here are only allowed to be used by hunters with a disability that keeps them from being able to draw a bow.
-
If increasing the season for crossbows will help reduce the season for rifles, then I think it's a good thing...but it probably won't happen.
I dunno, I think that crossbows are a lot like wheel bows so it doesn't bother be one way or the other.
-
If increasing the season for crossbows will help reduce the season for rifles, then I think it's a good thing...but it probably won't happen.
I dunno, I think that crossbows are a lot like wheel bows so it doesn't bother be one way or the other.
I have a Barnett Revolution 175 pound Crossbow....that I can't group better than 6 inches at 20 yards with....and it has a 3-9 power Scope on it....I am better than that with a Stick Bow.....to Me it is the biggest piece of Crap I have ever wasted Money on....and I have bought some foolish stuff in the past!!!....This Bow is so disappointing that I could not bear to sell it to someone...as I feel I would be cheating them BAD!!!....but I have a Bowtech Patriot....that will group 1 inch at 20 yards....and it's a Bow (of sorts!!)......so if all Crossbows are as Accurate as mine....let them shoot them during Rifle Season....or Black Powder Season...but I think that if they Legalize Crossbows during Bow Season...you will have every Tom .....Dick and Harry ....buying one so He can be a Bow Hunter.....chances are they will never see a Deer....let alone shoot one....but then there are that many more Crazies out there with Blaze Orange on.....with 125 to 200 pound Crossbows with scopes....Red Dots or Lasers ....shooting at anything that moves....not what We need!! J.M.O.
-
You guys crack me up. Did you know there is more public land in Colorado than east of the Mississippi River. Fact not myth. :o
I hear you Ryan, the game and fish, or whatever each state calls it is usually using flawed reasoning. We used to have a pretty good deer population, but alas there are just to many people.
Patrick, the major problem I have with crossbows is the fact that the shooter doesn't have to draw it or hold it. Many have a cocking mechanism. Then it locks in place and can stay at 120# draw for hours with no effort by the shooter. At least the wheel bows have to be drawn when the deer is approaching or in the shooting lanes.
Utah's law classifies any bows that have a device to hold them at full draw the same as a crossbow. They are not legal to hunt ANY game species without a special permit. And like Hillbilly said, you must be disabled to prevent drawing a bow to get the permit. Justin
-
Colorado has the Most Public Domain....and Texas.....the second biggest State in the Union....has the Least....less than 2% of the State is Public....and most of that you have to Pay to Hunt
-
Justin, I agree....a crossbow is easier to shoot....and less challenging to hunt with.
Destructo, I know all too well about the lack of public hunting land in Texas. It really stinks. :-\
-
i heard this before man, crossbows dont fit in the bow season..... >:( :-\
-
Forgive me but I am probably going to go a bit off exactly what this topic is about . I think responsible crossbow hunters over there at least getting an opportunity to hunt with their crossbows should count their blessings and strive to clean out the bad eliment and educate everyone else . Is there any Crossbow governing bodies or lobby groups over there . Its a freedom and should be protected .
I know there is complicated issues with manufactures and other vested interests clouding the legislaters minds and not beiing a resident likely don't understand all the issue's . I just feel that crossbows have an undeserved reputation and really are only a short bow on a stick . The modern compound devises whether on plastic sticks or handheld are far less conected to Primitive archery and are a real scurge in the wrong hands .
Here crossbows are illegal in some states to hunt with and ownership is so regulated in others that they have effectively turned responsible crossbowmen from the weapon of their choice . Crossbows in Queensland are held on a Catagory M for Mischelaneous licence . The anti everything fun folks are pushing to get hand held bows classified Catorgory M .
I can't even carry a pocket knife without violating state law .
I make my own crossbows . I use a medievil stock design , modern trigger mechanism from a Barnett type cheapy and have before restriction made the 3 piece chinese mechanism and either a wooden prod or solid fibreglass . I have a nice steel prod just dying to go into a stock as well .Scopes are a useless waste on crossbows - arrows and bolts arc so if you must use sights in my veiw use pin or peep sights that keep you in contact with this arc . I am not much of a shot but have no drama's with 6 " groups at 30 yards . I cant do that with my selfbow's or my laminated bows .
I cop all the same arguments and them some against crossbows that I have read here . In Queensland you need a licence and a genuine reason to own one . I need a armourers licence and an armourery if I wish to continue to make my own crossbows or manufacture new parts as they wear and thats too costly to consider . The only legal place I have to shoot my crossbows is on parcels of private land bigger than 40 acres . So they are pretty tightly restricted .
Trouble is every idiot / criminal that had them before licencing still has them as they are not interested in the law . There is a lot more idiots / criminals out there with compound devices than with crossbows putting arrows into pelicans or Kangaroo's than I want to think about . Point is responsible folks like myself are getting trodden on due to the actions of idiots and bias .
Sorry if I ramble and get off topic but I take every chance to push my crossbow barrow .
regards Jacko
-
I have absolutely no problem with folks hunting with crossbows. As far as I am concerned they can hunt with any ethical method there is out there. My problem is with crossbows being allowed during primitive weapons seasons. Modern crossbows are not primitive weapons! Here in NC they are allowed only by permit for handicaped folks. In Ga where I do most of my hunting they are allowed anytime but on our club, they are not allowed during the archery season. As a matter if fact nobody in our club would even want to hunt with one. Everyone else besides me in our club hunt with compounds and as soon as archery season is over they go for their 270s and 30-06s. I prefer to stick with my sticks!!! 8) Pat
-
Just found out Michigan also has a bill in the house to allow anyone with a valid deer license to use crossbows >:( The driving force
is more license sales. The end result is more slob hunters in the woods and believe me there are all ready to many of them around.
I quit bow hunting for almost 10 years because of all the useless idiots on public land. Now I have acess to private land ;D
-
Perry, no ones trying to out law anything here. Cross bows are a legal weapon to use during fire arms seasons, including our so called "flintlock only" muzzle loader season. I just don't want a whole bunch of idiots tromping around the woods in our archery season and ruining it for all the legitimate archers. You would have to be in pennsylvania durring fire arm season to understand what I'm talking about. :P
-
Or Texas for that Matter....no place for Public Hunting.....so there are 100's of thousands of Orange Vested Hunters everywhere you look......don't need anyone who thinks that buying a Crossbow will make them a Bow Hunter.....and being a Crossbow they can Hunt like it is a Rifle.....will spell Bad News for Archery Season for sure......... I own a Barnett Crossbow....but it isn't a Weapon for Hunting during Bow Season....I use it mainly for Varmint and Predator Hunting
-
Wow Mike, thats two things in one day we agree on :o .....Are you OK? ??? ;)
-
Wow Mike, thats two things in one day we agree on :o .....Are you OK? ??? ;)
I had a Long Night worked from 7 am.....till 10:00 pm.....and didnt get a good nights sleep......I think I am a Little Off Skew today!!!
Check back tomorrow!!!
;D
-
Mike I believe its for anyone 65 and older. Ryano you think your DNR is messed up come to Michigan and you will see corruption and politics like you wouldn't believe >:(
[/quote]
What is DNR?
-
Dept. of Natural Resources.
-
They are legal to carry in TN during the archery season. I went to the final meeting with the TWRA on the matter, and only 6 folks showed up to defend it.... They kept it under wraps pretty well.
That is why we now have a state bowhunting organization. The more things they allow, the less hunting time we will get. That is what concerns me...
-
Mike I believe its for anyone 65 and older. Ryano you think your DNR is messed up come to Michigan and you will see corruption and politics like you wouldn't believe >:(
Yup Michigan is a mess
-
Well I really don't see how it could be any worse than ours....they only want to make money at any cost. They do not have a care in the world what the sportsmen want. Right now they make more money a year off of timbering property's than licence fees anyways....so timber is there main concern.
-
Well I really don't see how it could be any worse than ours....they only want to make money at any cost. They do not have a care in the world what the sportsmen want. Right now they make more money a year off of timbering property's than licence fees anyways....so timber is there main concern.
hence the lower deer population. less deer, more room for them to timber...ahhh it all comes together now.
-
;)
-
I grew up hunting in Pennsylvania, Ryano, and I know how crazy it gets on public land. saw and heard of some scary, insane close calls. I think Pennsy., , like many states, is buckling to the reality of declining hunters by trying to get more people out with these obvious shortcuts to more hunting days with little investment in practice time - and also probably getting greased by the crossbow/hi-tec muzzleloader manufacturers to open up "primitive" seasons to these expensive weapons to boot. I do like pennsy's idea of making smaller bucks off-limits, however, and hope VA follows suit.
Here in Virginia, Crossbows are now legal in any archery season, after years of them for people with disabilities only. I'd like too see them restricted to muzzleloader, but oh well.... I would feel fine hunting "against" people with flintlocks in a "primitive" season, but not crossbows - I think they are as, or even more efficient than in-lines in thick forest I hunt based on the noise level, visibility and second shot probability.
The real rub here in VA arises when check in's are no longer required - who knows WHAT the deer was killed with. I hunt National forest,and I hear plenty of shots in bow season, and plenty of "repeating muzzleloaders" in blackpowder. I have no problem with people hunting with anything, but would like a safe, fair primitive archery/flintlock only hunt of 3 weeks at least! Now I feel a bit skeered walking into my stand in the dark in my camo knowing people are out there with scoped X-bows, or firearms out of season not even having to look for antlers. Used to go in without a light on sometimes, but can't do it now. wearing orange in / out also reduces my chances, but I feel I now have no choice.
-
Your right Postman. The problem with the horn restriction we have hear is it goes by points. A buck has to have 4 points on one side to be legal to shoot. Most of our 1 1/2 old bucks with good genes have 4 points on one side so they get killed off the first year anyways. Only the 4's and 6 pointers make it to be two and half year olds and some times never get more than 4 or 6 points. ...So now we have giant 6 pointers that you cant even shoot.....Not the best management program in my eyes. I wish they would go to a spread out side the ears type restriction instead of using points. This would save pretty much all the 1 1/2 old bucks and give them a chance to grow bigger and wiser so they might have a chance to make it through the next years gun season......jmo
-
im with you on the width restriction, another thing that i would LOVE to see them do is cut the doe season back to only a day or 2. i m a firm believer that the population would come back if they could just do that. when you kill a doe you kill 3 deer...
having said that i am going to hunt doe this year. i know kindof a contradiction, but my cousin has abour 500 acres that i hunt on, and he does his own deer management. minimum of a 16" spread, and only the older single doe. the first couple of years we didnt take a buck off the place because of the restiction, but its been 5 years now, and he has got some WHOPPERS. they took a buck off the back hill last year, had a 26" inside spread, and his highest tines were about 12" high. there are 3 other bucks on there that we didnt get last year.
the proofs in the puddin, there is a herd of prolly 30 that come out in his upper field every night, and he has a trapline that he runs through the winter and he sees at least that many each trip around the hill.
the younger healthy doe are able to breed, and the older ones are culed so that there is more room for the others. im tellin ya, it works.
Phil
-
Phil, your right but the problem is the game commission doesn't want the deer population to come back. They got the way the wanted it right now. It will be up to us as sportsman now to use our own discretion in how many doe's we take out each year. They have no intention on cutting back doe permits or limiting the season. I think people around my area here have finally figured out that if you shoot every deer in woods you see, there won't be any left for next year. I am starting to see a few more deer this summer. More than I have seen in the past 4 or 5 years. Your lucky to have access to a big enough plot of private land that you can exercise your own management program and actually have it work. Most people don't.