Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on March 20, 2024, 10:09:08 am
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Saw this on the tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJGHu64Ni5g and thought it was really interesting
Anyone ever make one of these?
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Pretty cool. I didn't realize that throwing sticks went so far except the Aussy boomerang. Another universal weapon, I guess.
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Pretty cool. I didn't realize that throwing sticks went so far except the Aussy boomerang. Another universal weapon, I guess.
Me either Pat.
Thank for sharing Marc. I’m thinking I need to make a couple of those.
Bjrogg
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thanks for sharing Mark
As with all primitive things even this sticks are not so easy to build
they can look good but not all would fly well
alot to learn even with the simpler tools
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(https://i.redd.it/r3zn6gija6j21.jpg)
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I cut a few branches to try to make one of these sticks yesterday, a bandsaw and a ferries rasp made quick work of my first attempt. The wood (cherry) is sopping wet green and heavy, I need to thin it some, it flies poorly so far.
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many rabbit sticks from america have a sort of handle
(https://nationalcowboymuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/1983.32.04.jpg)
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Handle that is not present in many other countries
(https://www.arthurbeaupalmer.com/images/aboriginal/BoomerangEngraved.JPG)
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@Eric are you going for replicas or your own interpretation?
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Just something that works and flies true.
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Interesting article on throwing sticks from europe and around the world
It's worth to note that many sticks (from different countries and periods) have grooves along the length
Kind of remind me grooved arrow shafts
make me think if it's only for cosmetics or if it has a real functionality
https://exarc.net/issue-2015-3/ea/gaulish-throwing-stick-discovery-normandy-study-and-throwing-experimentations
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The grooves, like with arrows could be to help keep them straight.
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I've made a few of these, can be a little tricky to get to fly right, but lots of fun. I made several from flattened pvc pipe too that I use like Frisbee golf, just throw at trees as my "pin".
My favorite one is from a dead dogwood tree. Very heavy and about as long as your arm. Flies about 100yds straight with a good throw. I'll have to get some pics.
You should check out throwsticks channel on you tube or throwsticks dot com,he has tons of good info and cool videos.
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Here's some pics. You can see the cross section of them is like an airfoil to give lift. This is the fun part to tune
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I can see why my attempt failed now, I had the wrong cross section design, rounded top instead of wing shaped.
Thanks for the pictures, I watched at least 10 rabbit stick making videos and not one showed the proper cross section configuration.
The thick part appears to be on the trailing edge assuming that you throw the stick with the center to the back, is this correct?
Like this;
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In my understanding to assign the foil profile you have first to decide if it will be used right or left handed
this will determine if the stick will fly anticlockwise or clockwise.
lets assume we will throw right hand so the rotation will be counterclockwise
the half of the stick more distant from your hand will have the leading edge (thicker part of the airfoil) facing the direction of your distant target while the first half of the stick (closer to our hand) will have the leading edge facing the opposite direction
My guess is that you can use many different foil profiles. even almost elliptical
The ultimate goal is to have the foil profile providing a little lift, balanced enough to maintain the rotation plane horizontal
to fine tuning it i've seen a video where they reduced little by little the profile at tips
My guess is that a pronounced profile at tips that spin really fast can flip the stick
My test had mixed result. I still have to crack the code
Heavier, wider, costant central curve seems easier to tune
@Aaron
very nice sticks !!
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Thanks glisglis.
And yes glisglis is correct. The thicker part is the leading edge, just like a plane wing. And the other leg of it is the opposite way, basically just like a bent propeller.
And yep, the airfoil can vary. On the pvc ones I couldn't get the wing profile, so they just have a slight radius on the top and I added twist to them in opposite directions, not much, but just enough to give a little lift.
When I'm working on one I just end up throwing it a bunch, see how it's flying, scrape a little here or there to get the profile a bit different, throw again... over and over until it almost hovers off the ground as it goes.
As for throwing, yep thats how I hold it, but they are thrown horizontal to the ground if you want them to go straight. You can also throw at slight angles from horizontal and get a little bend to the flight, or even an s shaped trajectory, but that's more for fun than it is useful as a hunting tool :)
Here's my rough diagram. I hold this one where the arrow is, rotation direction shown, and the lines are the thick parts of the airfoil.
Hope this helps, they are quite rewarding when you get them to fly correctly.
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Got it! thanks a bunch.
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I’m really interested in this. I’m definitely going to make one. Probably several
This just really fits me well. I pilot in me loves it and so does the primitive and wood working side.
Bjrogg
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have a read here
https:// primitivelifeways.com/2020/03/making-a-rabbitstick/
quite detailed description on stick making and tuning
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Another very interesting read on california / great basin rabbit sticks
A Game String and Rabbit Stick Cache from Borrego Valley, San Diego County (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fescholarship.org%2Fcontent%2Fqt69q7r0zs%2Fqt69q7r0zs.pdf%3Ft%3Dkrns2j&psig=AOvVaw25pf_zGN4hlX_3acfYrtuQ&ust=1713531793695000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjhxqFwoTCPCyjvHpy4UDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE)
In the meantime strong winds are knocking down trees around here
I've already seen so many nice curved branches and roots ;D
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I had to try this crappy branch as it fell on a coworker car.
The curve was cool. It seemed a sign from the sky
Still tuning it. Actual weighs 380 gr (13.4 oz)
bottom is not fully flat. It's slightly twisted to give more angle ( maybe too much) to the profiles
With a full arm throw it flies very straight for about 40 -45 yards and with the rotation always in the horizontal plane
the problem is that it quickly rises and slow down even with a slightly downward throw. it keep rising faster untill it stall and drop almost vertically
foil profile is thick along all length. I'll probably have to reduce the height and even flatten the bottom more
Oh and I see why Hopi sticks have that handle. After a couple dozen of throws you feel the need of a better grip
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I made one many years ago from a pattern in W. Ben Hunts guide to Indian Craft and Lore that was inspired by Hopi tradition. looked like a short hockey stick.
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You can also add weight (not completely primitive) to the ends to change flight characteristics. I've used lead buckshot that I smashed flat with a hammer, then tape in various places, or add more on. Then when it's flying right you can inset them and glue in permanently. I've always added to the bottom of the outside ends. The shorter wood one in my first pick has 2 glued on the shorter limb to prevent rising too soon.
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Thanks Aaron
I'd like to use this one to get better at tuning sticks so I probably will keep making adjustments until it works well or it is complete ruined
I will use the weights tip later if traditional tuning fails.
too much rain these days. tests suspended. (R
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Good luck with it, it's looking good so far. I need to find myself another crooked limb, all this talk has me wanting to make another too! :)
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thanks Aaron
I strongly suggest you to check THIS PAGE (https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Basketmaker-II-Warfare-and-Fending-Sticks-in-the-Geib/3dc6132f809acc78058736f68f5cfbb8e81f0b44) and make sure to press the "view all 166 figures & tables" button to see all pictures.
there are sticks that are works of art!
note how many do have grooves! I need to make grooves in mines too (lol)
I also suspect that many of them do not have a proper foil profile. just a thin slab with almost flat top and bottom
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Cool stuff on there! Thanks for sharing. One of the s shaped ones would be really cool. Always amazes me when you see things like this where multiple cultures around the world develop such similar technology independently. I guess great minds really do think alike.
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Cool stuff on there! Thanks for sharing. One of the s shaped ones would be really cool. Always amazes me when you see things like this where multiple cultures around the world develop such similar technology independently. I guess great minds really do think alike.
+1
that's why the grooves thing puzzles me
it's present in different cultures around the world
it must have a specific function!
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Dropped 1/4 weight, flattened the profiles and tips, almost eliminated any twist.
Gained an average of 10 yards with less lift
then hit a log and broke the sticks at the knot in the handle
I kind of expected it as the knot was very deep and the wood was already damaged
I'm hooked tough.
I had the chance to throw it at a rat and although i missed it by a mile I loved how that gliding effect makes the stick alive.
Now if only i had some bent log in my stash of perfectly straight staves ! :D
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Dang, hate it broke on ya. I've broke a few too, never fun. Sounds like you got a few good throws out of it though. The lack of properly bent limbs is why I started making some out of the pvc, let's you get the tuning down too. All you need is a heat gun, some pipe, and a way to squash it. And if you break them it's a lot less time invested in it. Good luck on the next one!
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Thanks Aaron
I bet pvc pipes could speed the learning progress
I have an elm and a mulberry stick roughed out but they are fresh cuts
in the meantime i read THIS (http://revedeboomerang.free.fr/tuning2.pdf)very interesting article on tuning boomerang and throwing sticks
The main information is that the same angle of the foil profile gives very different results if applied to the first (attacking blade - the one you are holding at throw) leg or if applied to the following leg (in case of bent throwing sticks)
I totally ignored this information and now i can figure the behavior i experienced with my lifting stick