Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on January 10, 2012, 04:19:38 pm
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(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot11-10-201212-48PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot21-10-201212-49PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot31-10-201212-49PM.png)
I'm getting the limbs bending right now, and preparing the tips for tip flipping. I was going to using these little pieces of 2 x 4 I had put a curve on to clamp to and bend the tips with after steaming, but because the back is not flat on one limb, the 2 x 4 turns to the right on the back, so it would probably cause the tips to flip crooked. It's hard to explain. So I guess I am going to have to make some kind of tip flipping form to get em to flip and stay aligned... I really wanna sinew this bow. Has anybody tried sinew with hackberry?
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Hackberry is smokin fast as is. My fastest bows are unbacked hackberry flat bows like you have there. I seen a bow posted a while back with sinew on it.
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My fastest bows are unbacked hackberry flat bows like you have there.
Me too. I don't see why everybody else seems to ignore it...
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Looking real good so far. I cut some hackberry 2 weeks ago, all ready to give it a go again.
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Everybody can send it my way! I hold it in the same regard as hedge...................call me crazy. Thats one of the sweetest hackberry profiles ever. That stuff is always straight, good find. My buddy chuck gave me a 1/4 log from a 24" tree. The bugger is about 9 feet long and perfectly straight and clean, plus 3 years seasoned. Im seeing at least 3 bows, maybe 4 in it.
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I cut a tree that wasn't even that big last summer, like 8" diameter, and got 8 perfect 80" long splits out of it... ...until most of em decided to deflex while they were drying... arg. I think ill keep em quartered for a month or so until they are good and reflexed, then quarter em. Only thing that sucks about that is hackberry seems to get real hard to split after it is real dry. Thank ya Hrothgar. Good luck hackin or your hackberry!
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Man, I love me some hackberry! And this bow is one of the snakiest I have seen. My experience with hackberry is that it has 1/2 inch rings, grows arrow straight, and is more than happy to cooperate to become a bow.
Nice piece, knothead. Can't wait to see it finished.
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That is a cool looking piece of wood!!
Though I've only built seven bows my Hackberry is my fastest. The other thing, for me at least, it is without doubt the quietest bows I have ever shot and I've shot some pretty high dollar customs. Maybe it's the fact that with hackberry the limbs are a tad thicker and the wood is softer so maybe better insulation qualities. I don't know but I'm telling you it makes no noise.
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Ryan its from the super light physical weight of hackberry that makes it quiet and fast, and of course design some. Its harder for energy to travel through light weight material as opposed to heavier material. A wooden bell or a brass bell?
Toomany if your hackberry needs to bend, it will easily with dry heat and forms. Tempering the belly will bullet proof it of you choose to go that far.
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i love that hackberry first time iv ever seen a snakey hack stave iv expermied a lot with it and im findin heat treat it makes it even better and sinew also improves the speed a bit but i dont think sinew is necceary with hack berry iv got 3 staves ageD 5= YEARS BEGGIN TO BE BOWS BROCK
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Man, I love me some hackberry! And this bow is one of the snakiest I have seen. My experience with hackberry is that it has 1/2 inch rings, grows arrow straight, and is more than happy to cooperate to become a bow.
Nice piece, knothead. Can't wait to see it finished.
Hopefully it will get finished, I am making my tips flat and rectangular which I usually don't do, my tips on almost all the bows I make are rounded somewhat. I just figured it would be easier to steam bend the tips if they were flatter and wider. I do have to confess that this piece wasn't as snakey as it is now from the beginning, I just took some liberty and amplified the curves the stave already had in it. It really wasn't that curvy from the beginning. Some times ill take a flat stave and lay out a snake profile,... ...just wishin I had me a snakey osage or somethin.. :laugh:
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Though I've only built seven bows my Hackberry is my fastest.
Ha, thats 3 of us! Here's one that was snakey that I kinda did the same thing to that I did to this one (like a year and a half ago, I think). It was a small diameter stave, which is why I think it was just a bit snakey.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Old%20hackberry%20snakey%20pyramid/11rev7p.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Old%20hackberry%20snakey%20pyramid/2ynoz80.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Old%20hackberry%20snakey%20pyramid/4fzxh1.jpg)
I got a couple 2 x 4 x 8's and I'm bout to make a tip flipping jig. I wanna make one that bends the tip to 90 Degree's (not like an angle, just that far, ya know, :laugh:). I wanna make one that I can just shove the tips in and bend without using clamps, I plan on using metal rulers to hold down the belly and hopefully keep it from breaking or lifting somewhere... I'll post some pics tomorrow when I get inevitably bored...
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Cool front profile man. I don't think you'll need the sinew with that one,hackberry is good as is,and it looks like your length/width is plenty for a selfbow. Just give that belly a long slow deep heat treat and shell rip an arrow. My 2nd fastest bow is a hackberry behind a yeller bow.
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that's sweet ,don't see many snaky Hackberry,they are usually pole straight around here. :)
Pappy
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That is one awsome hunk o hack ;)
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that's funny ALL my hackberry staves came out wavy and snakey from a tree that looked pretty stinkin straight! Can't wait to see the finishd product!
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Welp, I'm finished making my stave ruiner's. Soon as I got everything ready ill brake those tips off real good. I'm hoping for a real clean snap this time, not any of that feathery fibery crap...
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Recurve%20Jig/Recurvejig1.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Recurve%20Jig/Recurvejig2.jpg)
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WOW! Thats a full blown recurve there. Nice sturdy forms.
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WOW! Thats a full blown recurve there. Nice sturdy forms.
Thank ya. They look kinda crude but I guess they will get the job done. I will know in about 35 minutes (it's already been steaming about 25):
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20steam%20bending/PICT0006002_0002.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20steam%20bending/PICT0006001_0001.jpg)
I need the last 7 inches of the limb tip to bend as the recurve part on the jig's is only 7". The pan measures only 9" across. So I hope I get em steamed enough to bend. Both of the cross section's of the limb tips are not perfectly rectangle, both have a higher side on one side of the back, but I would have to violate the back to make it level, so I am kinda worried if it will bend straight and aligned, or off to the side, I hope to try to hold the bow straight and force it to bend in line but I don't have the best hope's... I will be using two metal rulers to try to hold down belly splitter's... AY, when steaming in recurves, you wanna have the back facing down, right? Thats the way I have always flipped tips...
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That will be a neat character bow. Looking good
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That will be a neat character bow. Looking good
Thank ya Keenan. Hopefully it will make it. I kinda put more character into it than it had to begin with, :laugh:. The first limb tip steamed for about an hour and 15 minutes or around there. It bent real easy with almost no effort. Wish me luck with the next my friends.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20steam%20bending/PICT0007_0001.jpg)
I freaking put the ruler on the wrong way I was going to, with the measurements and stuff touching the belly, so I am going to have a real clear measurement of my limbs imprinted on them...
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I got both of em bent. The second one kinda "cracked" went I bent it. I've heard that sound before. Doesn't sound good. I HOPE that if something broke and lifted, that it didn't go too deep, and it can be useable... arg... if anything ill end up trying to sand down the belly of the recurves and glue down some slats, which I haven't ever done before. So I hope I won't have to!!! :laugh:
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I'm really looking forward to seeing this bow finished
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I'm really looking forward to seeing this bow finished
I'm hoping that I see it finished too, ;D. After trading alot of my bows, it's startin ta feel a bit lonely around here... After taking the recurves out of the jigs I couldn't find any visible lifting or crack/break, and they seem to be just fine. Even after bending em a bit trying to find a lifted splinter or something I couldn't find anything. So I don't know what that crack I heard was... Either way I will find out sooner or later. For now everything seems just dandy.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0008001_0001.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0009001_0001.jpg)
Time to start breaking out some sinew...
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0009004_0001.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0010003_0001.jpg)
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man this is going to be one fast shooter.
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Did you check your cull after you took out the second bend? The 'crack ' sound might have come from there.
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I did, but I couldn't find nothing really. They both bent easy with no effort so I didn't think it was the jig at first, but it could of been. I glued everything together on the jig's before I nailed em, hoping it would help a bit to deter the wood from splitting from the 8's I used to tack it all together, as well as hold together a little better. I guess it could of been the glue in the jig? I've had limbs make that same sound, and with no effort at all, just peel apart at the rings on the belly when tip flipping...
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Very clever jig Knots,I wanna see some sinew pics!
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Very clever jig Knots,I wanna see some sinew pics!
Thank ya DRon. Honest to god it'll be a week or two until I got this sinew all threaded out. It's been broken out roughly for half a year or more, but I still need to separate the fibers to make it usable. It all came from some not so good quality sinew.
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The curves and bow profile look really good. After sinewing, it should be a screamer...and it is such a cool stave anyway.
Get a cotton ball and rub it all along the areas you bent. If there is a splinter it will grab the cotton. If you find something, saturate it with super glue. It is pretty common for recurves to crack on the outside of the curve. Generally the cracks are superficial and are removed with shaping the tips. The super glue is just a little extra insurance.
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Get a cotton ball and rub it all along the areas you bent. If there is a splinter it will grab the cotton.
That is freaking ingenious. Thanks for the tip!
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cool bow buddy.i might have to come down and shoot that thing when you get it done.great job,Steve
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I wish I had thought of it but someone else gets the credit for this idea. ;)
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Thats looking very nice thanks for posting this I like your recurve jigs!
Josh
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Looking great....just love those snakey bows....looks like shes goin be fast...Hammertime
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Here's some pics of the overlays I'm gonna use on this one. (osage)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0001002_0001.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0001004_0001.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0001098.jpg)
I cut em at the end before I glue em or I will end up digging into the back when I'm trying to shape them.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0005001_0001.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0007_0001.jpg)
Thanks for the nice words everybody! Having all kinds of fun over here... :laugh:
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Ok, I had to put this recurve on hold for a little bit as I had a bit of a flirt with appendicitis, but now all is well. I got the overlays all shaped up. While I was a bit under the weather I got the sinew all broke out, and even separated into 3 different lengths. Just to find out later after I was better and able to tiller the bow, that this bow is not really gonna be worth the sinew anyway. Either one side of the limb being thicker than the other, or the snake it has, has given me some work getting the strings aligned. It's kinda crazy as the belly is not perfectly flat but has some wave to it, which I had to give it to weaken one side of the limb to get the siyah to not twist. Er, I mean recurve. It appears to be landing somewhat in the middle, or at least close enough to not come flying off the bow (I hope). Without the sinew, this bow could only be 40# at the most. Which is not bad, if only it had some reflex or something,... Here's some pics. I have it tillered out to 25/26 so far, but I need to finish sanding before I can get some longer draw pics though.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-54PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-55PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-59PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-56PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-57PM.png)
Took me a good amount of tweaking to get the string to lay in the middle... It still kinda rests to the side on both of em right now. This is the main reason I don't feel like sinewing this bow. I just don't know what it will want to do after sinewing. It was my stupid fault for not leaving the limbs wide and going on "faith" that I could guess where the string would lie... I hate myself sometimes. :) I got a couple hackberry staves that would be much better for sinewing than this one. I also forgot, that this bow has a bit of a deflexed curve in it toward the tip of one of the limbs, which made it a bit of an aggravating tiller. The other two I have are perfectly flat. I would like to see what a sinew backed hackberry is like.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot22-4-20122-58PM.png)
Here's a low brace. I have lost a good amount of faith in this bow I would say, and thus have abused it a bit. It has been braced at like 8" or so on accident. I still don't have a proper string made. Also to note, I keep hear a scary little tick, but I can't find any source, which is making me think it is the overlays coming on glued? I did clamp them pretty hard when gluing, which I find ain't the best thing to do especially with oily woods that are hard to glue like osage.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-4-20122-58PM.png)
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What a cool bow! keep us posted on the finish
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i want to see this one finished too.i just started one of those hackberry staves that i got from you.it has been a pain so far but shaping up nicely.i still hve that very straight hackberry stave that is getting ready to be made into a bend trough the handle english longbow.i got a video from rudder.wish me luck brother,Steve
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Just go slow steve. Make sure to correct any hinge or potential hinge before pulling the bow too much farther, working your way to your desired draw length. Have fun!
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Here's 27". I'm just gonna say it's done now. I am hoping for at least 45# at least. It is a pretty light bow. If I wasn't planning on sinewing beforehand it wouldn't have turned out this light. I just hope it shoots ok. It has maybe 1/2" to 1" set right now (I am guessing).
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/27inches.png)
I will have better pics up probably tomorrow. (Hopefully).
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Looks like a nice bow to me.
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Thank ya Bevan. I got to shoot it for the first time this morning, I would of had a fulldraw pic but it was too hard to see the bow in the morning sun. After shooting and taking some pics (I am very happy with the way it shoots for a lighter bow, I am guessing a clean 45# at fulldraw, maybe going down a bit lower, but it is fast just from being light weight and very fun to shoot),...
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-6-201211-49AM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot22-6-201211-50AM.png)
...Anyway, after shooting it a couple times and taking some pics, I noticed this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-6-201211-51AM.png)
...so I guess i am lucky it is in one piece. I am sure this is the cracking/tick sound I was hearing earlier. So now, after sanding to 600, burnishing, and waxing, I now wish I had sinewed! :laugh: I am leaning toward patching it though and calling it quits. It shoots pretty good anyway. I have linen fabric, linen thread, and sinew, as well as sinew scraps to make sinew glue. What would you guys recommend for a patch? (btw, the crack across the back is pretty bad, worse than the picture shows, I am very lucky this bow is in one piece I think.)
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Man, that's a heartbreaker, sure hope you can get'r fixed! Somebody oughta be on here soon to give you better advice than i can :-\
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Did the belly fret under the crack?You could back it with linen, silk, or rawhide then add a wrap in the cracked area
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K-hat, I'm praying it will survive to be shootable! (I hope!) Bill, it didn't fret or chrysal under the crack. I decided to just throw on a quick linen patch about 2" or so long across the crack just now, threw it on with tb3. I will wrap it afterwards with some linen thread soaked in tb in a little bit when it's dry. Hopefully I will have it all done and ready to shoot by tomorrow. I hope the little patch doesn't mess with the tiller. I have never done a patch before. I wanted to do sinew but I just didn't feel like making a little bit of sinew glue, and I haven't had alot of success with titebond and sinew.
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Soak the linen thread with as much super glue as she will hold..It will be almost bulletproof that way.
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Soak the linen thread with as much super glue as she will hold..It will be almost bulletproof that way.
Will do. Already used titebond instead of super glue though. I used a small piece of linen fabric, and then wrapped linen thread over that. And then a matching linen thread wrap on the other side. I would of loved to do a snake skin right over it, but the closest place that I could get a snake skin charges 70 bucks a meter! That is just insane. I kinda wish I would of used a clear glue, but I don't think it will look that bad, and I will be happy if it shoots still. I'm bout ta do one more coat of glue and go to bed. Shoot it tomorrow morning maybe.
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You can try all of the above suggestions ,but I would save the snake skin until I had shot it a lot after the repair,to be honest I doubt it will hold. It is just in a really bad place,to much work at that point of the limb. :(:) :) Man that was looking sweet. :(
Pappy
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Im with Pappy. You can see on both limbs where they are working much too hard, almost hinged. Im guessing thats where the tension failure happened.
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Im with Pappy. You can see on both limbs where they are working much too hard, almost hinged. Im guessing thats where the tension failure happened.
I think I know what your talking about, in the picture on the tiller near the right limb tip? It looks like a hinge to me there, but everywhere else to my eye looks good. Could you make a MSpaint mark where you think it is bending too much, if it wouldn't be too much trouble? I think that it actually is kinda deceptive, due to the way the limb twists a bit and is not perfectly flat towards the tip. But it might be a hinge, I did not ketch it while I was tillering though. The tick/crack happened early on in the very middle of the limb, when I had just got the bow braced, and I didn't ketch that either till after having it fully tillered and shooting it. ;D So it might of gotten progressively worse. The bow is 66" tip to tip, the handle is around 8" or so, and the recurves are 3" or so maybe, and it does not pull over 45#. You guys really think this bow is over stressed for a 28" draw? I think my crappy picture might not be the best picture to go on, I will take a better quality one in a bit (maybe when my wife gets home) and see what you guys think...
You can try all of the above suggestions ,but I would save the snake skin until I had shot it a lot after the repair,to be honest I doubt it will hold. It is just in a really bad place,to much work at that point of the limb. :(:) :) Man that was looking sweet. :(
Pappy
Eh, it's no big deal. I don't have alot of experience with recurves, so I am still having alot of fun and getting a little bit better hang of it. I did lose faith and abuse this bow a bit, but that was way after I heard the mystery tick. I actually thought it was the overlays coming unglued until I found the crack. I think the back on this hackberry was actually quite thin from me harvesting it right after the new growth started growing in the summer. So I might of sanded the ring real thin, I've did that before...
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Recurves are cool for sure but I really never found them to be worth the risk,[ for selfbow] you need a excellent piece of wood to start with and they won't out shoot a straight limbed/or flipped tip bow buy much,if anything they may be a little smoother to draw so I haven fooled with them much. I would say with a 66 tip to tip which is around 64 or less n-n and 8 inches of non bending handle, Hackberry and snaky you was pushing the limits for a 28 inch draw.JMO. :) :)
Pappy
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Recurves are cool for sure but I really never found them to be worth the risk,[ for selfbow] you need a excellent piece of wood to start with and they won't out shoot a straight limbed/or flipped tip bow buy much,if anything they may be a little smoother to draw so I haven fooled with them much. I would say with a 66 tip to tip which is around 64 or less n-n and 8 inches of non bending handle, Hackberry and snaky you was pushing the limits for a 28 inch draw.JMO. :) :)
Pappy
Well I guess I gotta learn somehow, :laugh:. By the way Pappy and Pearl, I appreciate all the criticism, even if it might seem that I am kinda stubborn. (cuz I am, >:D). I've made butt joint glue on siyah kinda recurves on board bows before, but this is my first true contact recurve from a stave. I just put about 50 shots in it about 5 minutes ago out in the back yard after the linen patch. The only reason it did not break with the crack across the back before, I would guess, is because of the light weight, as I had previously wanted to sinew back it. I just weighted it, and it is pulling 34# @ 28". Here's a picture of the limb with the crack after patching it. It is not easy for me to get a good fulldraw photo by myself, somehow I managed to only get the top limb.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/patchlimb.png)
It does kinda look like it is pretty stiff off the fade now that I look at it better.
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Heat treating hackberry is a great plan. Try that on your next attempt.
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Heat treating hackberry is a great plan. Try that on your next attempt.
I have before, but I honest hate the look of a toasted/discolored bow. I might try it on a hackberry longbow I'm workin on right now though, just cause you recommend it. Where did you think the limb was bending too much pearl?
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Postin a fulldraw pic cause I'm bored. This bow is about finished, I just need to get a handle on it and I will have some better quality pics...
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot22-15-201211-25PM.png)
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Looking good,nice save. ;) :)
Pappy
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Toomany just want to thank you for the build-a-long. I learned a lot and the bow turned out
nice . Good save on that.
Lane
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Looking good,nice save. ;) :)
Pappy
Unfortunately for this bow, I think you and Pearl were right in the first place. It is starting to get hingy in the limb that has the crack,and the tiller still doesn't too promising, as well as every other time I draw I hear the ominous tick, so I don't know what to do really. The only thing I can think to do is just say screw it and sinew the bow, and really that is the only thing that would make me happy, as the weight is already 34# @ 28", so if I fixed the flat spot in the upper (repaired) limb, it would probably end up being too light. I have another hackberry I am turning into a recurve right now, the stave is better quality, almost board bow quality, so hopefully I won't screw that one up...
Toomany just want to thank you for the build-a-long. I learned a lot and the bow turned out
nice . Good save on that.
Lane
Thank ya johnson. Best way to learn from me probably is to learn what not to do, :laugh:
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Sinew wont fix it toomany. I say put it on your tree and pull it until it breaks. See what it will take and learn from that.
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I TBB 4, Mr Baker talks about adding flax to 'cure' a hinge. You might look that up and read that.
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Sinew wont fix it toomany. I say put it on your tree and pull it until it breaks. See what it will take and learn from that.
You must not have alot of experience with sinew.
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Must be not.
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Must be not.
Pearl, I believe you can bring the weight up as well as effect the tiller or protect the back from tension failure to a great degree on almost any bow that has a sound belly, please tell me why I can't, LOL
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Must be not.
LIAR ;D
What did you do with all that sinew then, knit a sinew sweater? >:D
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You cant protect a back from tension failure when failure has already occured. If your bows tiller is off as you say and you belive there to be a slight hinge, that generally means you have compression failure on the belly if you look hard enough. Hackberry is super soft and that belly cant make up what the back is lacking where its sheared across. This isnt meant to be smart or rude, try it and see what happens for yourself.
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I'll agree with Pearlie, much as it causes me severe digestive distress. >:D
I tried sinew backing an osage bow that had a crack across a limb. I got great sinew adhesion, pulled over 2 inches of reflex into the bow, and it still hinged horribly over the crack. Added another layer of sinew across the crack, still hinged, but now the tiller was whacked badly. Eventually another layer of sinew was laid on over the hinge area and tapered out above and below the damaged area. I continued to try tillering out the problems and adding sinew until I just ripped off the sinew with my draw knife and made a batch of sinew glue.
In my experience sinew and hide glue will improve a good bow, salvage an ok bow, and waste your time and effort on a broke bow.
As for a sinew sweater, handwash in cool water and don't wear it until it's fully dry or it will stretch outa shape.
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You cant protect a back from tension failure when failure has already occured.
?, that is ridiculous. To quote ed scott, sinew is stronger than steel in tensile strength. It is stronger than wood, and does a fantastic job of holding a bows back together. I don't know why I have to argue this point. :laugh:
If your bows tiller is off as you say and you belive there to be a slight hinge, that generally means you have compression failure on the belly if you look hard enough.
My bows belly is fine. It's only a 34# bow, as I planned on sinewing it in the beginning...
Hackberry is super soft.
Hackberry is not soft. It is light, but not soft. Compression wise, I have never seen a chrysal on a hackberry bow I've made, that includes a 73" nock to nock 90# @ 26" hackberry flatbow, with probably a 10" non-working handle.
This isnt meant to be smart or rude
Me neither, I always enjoy talkin to ya Pearl, we obviously just disagree on alot here, but that's just how the internet is. And I always appreciate your advice and opinion. I hope you don't ever take me as rude man.
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I have no problems at all toomany. Enjoy whatever you decide to try.
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Looks like the next bow I make with a hinge gets shipped toomanyknots so he can prove me wrong. I think he is going to be saddened and dismayed to see how many of my bows develop hinges! >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
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I'll agree with Pearlie, much as it causes me severe digestive distress. >:D
I tried sinew backing an osage bow that had a crack across a limb. I got great sinew adhesion, pulled over 2 inches of reflex into the bow, and it still hinged horribly over the crack. Added another layer of sinew across the crack, still hinged, but now the tiller was whacked badly. Eventually another layer of sinew was laid on over the hinge area and tapered out above and below the damaged area. I continued to try tillering out the problems and adding sinew until I just ripped off the sinew with my draw knife and made a batch of sinew glue.
In my experience sinew and hide glue will improve a good bow, salvage an ok bow, and waste your time and effort on a broke bow.
As for a sinew sweater, handwash in cool water and don't wear it until it's fully dry or it will stretch outa shape.
Well you guys can just get "told ya so rights" and make fun of me if the stupid thing brakes. I already made the recurves to skinny where the string lays, had to get the limbs to unaturally twist so that the string would stay on, so after sinewing the thing I'm sure the limb il twist and the string il just pop off. LOL I hate this frakin bow.
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I already have "told ya' so" rights on this bow from the first pickle ya got in toomany! Give them to somebody else for the seocnd time around buddy. :)
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Knothead! You may end up with something yet! Every bow that has made me so mad I could chew rebar and spit log chain has turned out great. This one may be bow of the month material!!! >:D >:D >:D
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....or a one way ticket to the Straitjacket Hotel.
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It won't stop tickin, but it also won't break. Pulled + 32" just trying to see if it will stop ticking/brake. Nothing... >:(
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How does the tiller look now?
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Roughly the same, the fade are a bit stiff still, and majority of the bend is in the middle of the limb, where the bow was repaired. I have got some set on the lower limb of the limb that was repaired, ill post a pic in a sec,...
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Here is the bows unbraced profile. Despite logic, the limb with all the set on the right is the one that is fine. The limb on the left with less set is the one that was repaired and is still ticking. The limb on the right had a deflexed spot so I had to kinda leave it alone to get it tillered right.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-16-20121-52PM.png)
Here it is drawn to 30", the arrow I am drawing is exactly 30". The bottom limb here is the one that is ticking.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-16-20121-54PM.png)
I just don't wanna break it on purpose if I can salvage it, my tiller only goes to 32" and I don't think that il do it. I have it braced at 6 1/4" right now. Ridiculously the top one is the one that looks like it should brake.
(Please disgard the pajama pants >:D)
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I never seen you in anything but pj pants man! Just keep it as is and run a few hundred arrows through it and see what it does. Im stumped on the ticking sound you hear. You can see the nasty hinge starting on that lower limb, maybe thats the culprit.
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I never seen you in anything but pj pants man! Just keep it as is and run a few hundred arrows through it and see what it does. Im stumped on the ticking sound you hear. You can see the nasty hinge starting on that lower limb, maybe thats the culprit.
LOL, I need to get a freakin job.
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Toomany
If you have twist going on in the recurves you may be hereing the string moving in the nocks !
Try a little wax to lube it and see if it goes away
Guy
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That was a good idea buckeye guy, I have had that happen before. I ended up deciding I would like a sinew backed bow better even if this wasn't a "ticking" time bomb, (hehe) and ended up taking the patches off. After taking the linen wraps off, the linen fabric patch seemed to be doing fine. I'm 1000% positive this bow would of held together, after pulling past 32" over and over again, having it braced at 7" and over, and only getting a like of inch set on the repaired limb, and an inch and a half on the limb that was already deflexed a bit. I just would rather have a sinew backed bow that didn't tick when I pulled it. I think the break was opening up a bit and ticking, but the linen patch and linen wrap was holding everything together despite the break still being there. If it was a heavier bow it would of probably blown. Anyway, I still have no idea still what nasty hinge you see on the bottom limb Pearl. It looks stiff around the fades to me, but other than that the bottom limb looks like it is bending very evenly? Anyway, this guy is getting a sinew back. Will update with pictures...
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Linen patch under the linen wraps:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0012_0001.jpg)
Seemed to be doing a great job along with the linen wraps of holding the bow together, when you figure I have a crack/break all the way across the limb... and still no hinging, excessive set or anything on the repaired limb. Even after abusing the bow trying to coax the limb to snap if it was going to.
I have just about enough sinew for one layer, (plus a little extra sittin there on that recurve form just incase, ;))
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0013001_0002.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/bv.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/PICT0014001_0001.jpg)
I wanna try ta put it on like I saw this turkish bowyer guy do on youtube. Ill post a link to the video if I find it... QUESTION: I have seen some Korean bowyers sinew up to the nock on horn bows, and without adding sinew wrapping around the end. I know most people sinew up to the beginning of the recurve, and than stop. I was thinking about doing it that way, but instinctively I just wanna add sinew wrapping around the end to prevent lifting. And also to reduce weight on the end as the recurves don't do no real work or nothin... Just wondering what yall think...
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2 questions
did you fill the crack with super glue?
what are your plans if it still ticks when your done?
Guy
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2 questions
did you fill the crack with super glue?
I don't trust super as much as everyone else. I always have it fail on me. I think in tbb the super glue family of glues rated just a tiny bit better than hide and sinew glue when it was tested.
2 questions
what are your plans if it still ticks when your done?
Guy
Blame is on the sinew. :laugh:
EDIT: After googling it, I think it was actually 20 - minute epoxy I am thinking of. Either way, no, I haven't super glued it. I'm too chicken to bend the bow enough for the fracture to open up anyway.
EDIT #2: Here is the video on youtube, where the bowyer just lays the entire limbs width of sinew down at once instead of how people lay it in smaller groups in the brick pattern:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UFKPJDojs
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edit: deleted
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One reason many of us have started using the super glues on cracks is so we don't have to try to get them opened up to get the glue in! the super glues seem to work better on wood and fingers than on other things !
Guy
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I have been using the gel kind. Probably why it hasn't been working to good for me. You right buckeye guy, I should of put some super glue in the crack, I just haven't been thinkin very clearly lately... I admit I was a bit hesitant to open er up.
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Pearl, in reply to your paleoplanet post on recurving warbows, I don't see in any light how you could claim that fixing a crack in the back of a bow is outright impossible.
If you got beef with a post on Paleoplanet, take it up there, not here.
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edit: deleted
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Well I got the bow sinewed. Today is the second day of drying. I used thinner glue and less of it like alot of people suggested in osage outlaws thread. I didn't put a coat of glue on top of the sinew after laying it all down like I usually do. I think I should of done that, as the sinew has turned white and overly dry looking in only a day or so. I layed one full layer down, and then a smaller layer to give it a crown. I hope from me completing this build along that alot of people will learn you can easily repair a bows back if the belly is in good working condition with a sinew backing. (although a sinew or flax fiber patch works fine.)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot12-19-20125-21PM.png)
The white "too dry/not enough glue" looking sinew:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/sdgs.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot22-19-20125-22PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Snakey%20hackberry/Snapshot32-19-20125-22PM.png)
Pearl, please read design and performance in the first volume of TBB on page 135 a technique for a "hinge patch or problem spot patch" is talked about. Here is a link to that page with from google books for you: http://books.google.com/books?id=dQT9krc53isC&pg=PA135&dq=the+bowyers+bible+patch+flax&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uHtBT8nPOsLm0QHpnLy0Bw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
It's under fiber backings if you got the book at home.
I still don't know where this hinge is your talking about though and after drawing the bow multiply times I cannot find one. I have asked you to show me twice now. I have uploaded a video of the bow being drawn to show the tiller better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSBpA7LGaMs The top limb looks like it might be in danger of a hinge from the fade being too stiff, but the bottom limb is the repaired limb and it looks fine to me. This is the bow being over drawn to 30", which is was never really meant to do, as I was seeing if it could break. Anyway this is just to make things clear, as I have already sinewed the bow. Also, what does a breaking a perfectly fixable bow teach you exactly? It's a nice saying, but wouldn't you think there is better experience to be had and more satisfaction from fixing a bow than breaking it? I have broken plenty of bows out of frustration or disappointment over the years, and have eventually regretted breaking every one.