Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Jim Davis on July 12, 2016, 09:07:06 am
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This is hypothetical/fantasy, but bow hunting, strategy.
Suppose you lived where I do, in the Mississippi valley. You go to visit friends in western Oregon and, while you are there, there is a massive solar coronal mass ejection that kills the entire electrical system for the western hemisphere. Cars don't work. No food or fuel distribution is possible. No road kill.
Your family needs you to get home. It's August, so time is limited before cold comes to the Rockies.
You have a bicycle, bike tools, a takedown bow, a spare string, blunt and broadhead arrows. You also have a rain parka, space blanket, water filtration set, good pocket knife and sharpening stone, a lighter, spare folding bike tire, extra tube and patches.
Just riding time will take you 40 to sixty days. You can't carry more than a few days worth of food. There may be those who want what you have.
What would be your strategy to get food to get you through eastern Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska and down through Missouri?
I have some ideas, let's hear yours:)
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Id be more worried about avoiding the masses of people who dont have the gear i have, which is literally everything i could need and want. And there will still be cars. I will always have a carborated pickup truck because i do believe something like this is possible.
Id have to travel at night especially on moonless nights. I will travel only roads that have the least amount of previous traffic on them to avoid all gas stations and places other people would flock to first. A ride that far will wear out yoir tires so i would be inclined to hit a store up first thing as soon as a plan has been realized and get spare tires. Money will do no good so unfortunately looting may be required. Also, i would be a hunter of opportunity, and only shoot what i see as i ride, and small game only to reduce down time and processing food time. I would probably take opportunity to fish rather than hunt because im a better fisherman than hunter. Besides 40-60 daus isnt long enough to really worry about massive amounts of food to make it my priority.
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I will always have a carborated pickup truck because i do believe something like this is possible.
Does it have electronic ignition? ;) ;)
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Good point DC! If you don't have a points/condenser distributor, the carburetor doesn't help. Also alternators from the 80's on up have electronic voltage regulators. They'd get fried too.
This is actually something that's never far from the front of my mind. Maybe not that exact scenario, but any major calamity that would leave me stranded anywhere in the nation. With my job it could be anywhere. In my way of thinking, a bicycle or anything that restricted my route of travel to any roads would be suboptimal. Roads are for people that like to get ambushed. I would prefer a horse or mule. That's probably not going to be an option, so the next best thing is LPC's(leather personnel carriers). I have two pairs of lightly broke in jungle boots and a pair of insulated boots in my large A.L.I.C.E pack along with various other needful things stowed away in my truck. I have a takedown bow and arrows in a quiver that straps to my pack. However I will be carrying a couple things that will be much more persuasive in convincing ol Sleek that there are easier targets to loot and rob than me. ;) Yes, those are stowed away with my other gear. Fortunately, I have a very good working knowledge of the terrain and water sources across most of this country. That will help should the unthinkable happen. Josh
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I will always have a carborated pickup truck because i do believe something like this is possible.
Does it have electronic ignition? ;) ;)
Good old points and coil.
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Some question whether a coil would survive without protection....
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The voltage regulator is solid state. Cant fry it.
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Some question whether a coil would survive without protection....
No question. They are designed by nature if their function to handle large electical loads.the creat their own emp to step current up. Coils will be fine.
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Gundoc is right about roads too....
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The voltage regulator is solid state. Cant fry it.
Nearly all electronics are solid state these days including microprocessors, such as vehicle ECM's, ignition control modules, transmission shift modules and so on and so forth. Unless they are hardened, they will all fry with a strong enough EMP. Actually, if you want a vehicle that will still be useful after such an event, you would be better off having a mechanical injected diesel. Remember the old CUCV? 85 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 with a 6.2l diesel and what little circuitry that was on them was hardened. Those would be ideal. Since diesel stores longer before it goes bad than gas and you can substitute a lot of organic oils for diesel it's an all around better choice. Josh
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Well, you would know that wouldnt you? Lol Id be a fool to argue. Im gonna keep an eye out and rethink my emergecy vehical of choice.... though its usefulness may be very limited. You do make yourself a target with one that works. But i guess later on after things have settled down, it would be useful.
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Unless you are very lucky, travel by night away from the roads and have superb survival skills, the roving gangs of cannibals will have you roasting on a spit in short order.
Read the book "1 Second After" for a perspective. The author did a pretty good job of putting an EMP attack in perspective except he left out one thing; the 113 operating nuclear plants in the US which would all go critical and kill every living thing on the planet.
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They cant go critical in the way most think. They dont blow up. Not enough fuel mass to allow that. I remember reading a study on that. The actual term critical means its a self sustaining reaction. Thats needed for them to operate. Every functioning reactor in the world is critical right now. I think the term is super critical and again, not enough fuel mass in them to allow that.
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I worked in the power industry, I was in fossil, about half my buddies transferred to nukes.
Think Chernobyl, Fukushima and Three Mile Island, multiply that by 113, no cooling water and off they go, any questions?
Every effort in the world was focused on containing the aforementioned disasters. If the same thing happens after an EMP attack there will be no resources to make any effort to contain the fog of radiation that will spew from these reactors after they go critical and melt down.
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Like Eric said once meltdown starts it will keep going deeper until it hits the water table and then start spewwing radioactive steam into the atmosphere.
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Erik inspired me to do some reading on nuke plants. They all seem to have backup diesel generators for short term power outages and I read a mention that they are able to switch over and use some of their own power to keep their cooling systems going. I'd like to see an official site with a more direct comment on this.
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Yep...even after SCRAMing the reactor, the fuel still has to be cooled or it gets hot and melts through the reactor...and pretty much anything else it comes in contact with. With no power, there's no coolant being pumped and you have what happened in Japan. They had emergency generators, but the tsunami knocked those out. I would like to think that emergency generators for power plants are hardened against EMP, but I wouldn't bet on it. Even if they are hardened to some degree, I have to wonder how well. I live 150 mi upwind from the closest one, but the fallout from the Western plants will likely land in the plains like most of the fall out from atomic testing in New Mexico did in the 50's. In most SHTF theories meltdowns are more of a long term tertiary problem for most since the immediate threats to life will be many and immediate such as illness, violence, exposure, thirst and starvation. Man...we're painting a pretty ugly picture in this thread. Lets hope this discussion remains forever academic. Josh
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Under the reactors are several layers of containment to capture all melt down in a bowl to prevent contamination. It doesn't just fall through, there is steel and concrete designed to contain the fuel in the event of a melt down.
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Not so Sleek, at Three Mile Island the containment vessel was almost breeched.
A quote from a possible meltdown scenario;
A reactor core meltdown destroys two of the barriers between radioactive material and the environment: the fuel pellets and the fuel rods. Consequently, a vast amount of radioactive material gets released into the reactor vessel. The molten core debris can breach the reactor vessel, as almost happened at Three Mile Island, eliminating another barrier. The large amount of hydrogen gas produced by the overheated reactor core en route to meltdown can explode, challenging or even breaching the containment structure, the final barrier.
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Acknowledging that nuke plants are at the very least a serious potential threat in the scenario we're discussing, can we move back towards the original problem of how to get home. None of us are nuclear physicists and I see little point in a continued Google war. Lol! How about sharing ideas of essential gear that you would want in such an event. Movement tactics. Hydration strategies and so on. I'm always rethinking what I would need vs. what I want to carry on my back. Having humped a 100 pound pack for 26 mles...twice...back in my prime, I can tell you that is a very important matter to consider. Especially since I'm along ways from my prime. Josh
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On my last trip to the Smokies 5 years ago I hiked up to the Spence Field Shelter on the AT, there I met a couple who had about 125 miles to go to finish the entire AT trec. We talked for hours,they explained how they started overweight (themselves) with 60# packs and how they refined their gear as they hiked from Maine south. When I met them they were stickfigures, his pack weighed 23#, her's 21#, they had food, shelter, clothes, water and water purifying equipment (UV light stick). They resupplied at any small town they came near, always at a Dollar Store which they said had anything they needed.
The gal had walked most of the way with horrendous blisters on her feet, it wasn't until she found some neoprene socks that she got relief.
Perhaps if we really want to be prepared for a SHTF event we should study the experiences of modern folk who have taken on a long and arduous journey like the AT.
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Yes, I agree with picking the brains of people who have done this kind of journey. There are differences in this scenario though. After a couple of weeks, there will be NO food in stores. Traveling the Oregon Trail would have been several magnitudes easier, because of having something edible within reach.
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Pioneers did it, natives did it, trappers did it, Louis and Clark did it. Its very very doable. Food water shelter, none of that is complicated. The hard part is staying alive from all the masses who dont know how to do it. You must avoid detection, or you must join a group and become a tribe for strength in numbers.
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Those folks with that kind of experience would definitely be an invaluable source of information. I was thinking of the routing on this particular scenario and the difficulties involved. For instance southern Idaho's lava flow region would be very tough to traverse cross country and Western Wyoming is practically desert with few water sources other than the green river. I think my initial plan would be to angle up towards targhee pass into Montana, follow the Madison up towards 94 avoiding the actual I-94 roadway work over to the Yellowstone and follow along it and try to acquire a canoe through barter if possible and take the Yellowstone to the Missouri in the canoe. You'd be a sitting duck paddling during daylight, but at night you could cover a lot of distance. Of course the Yellowstone and the Missouri will take you by a lot of cities that are best avoided. But that would be my initial plan if I absolutely had to get home in the quickest manner. Thoughts? Josh
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Night time travel is a must. Canoe is risky. Its open area travelbut if you move fast enough through populated areas you may be fine. I can see a sitiation whete you arent the only guy out there and folks may try to rob and kill you.
Seems the faster you can makes your travel the better your chances are. Id cover as much distance as i could as fast as i could in my initial days not worried about people too much. It will take some time for society to break down and folks to loose their minds. As time goes, id start being more cautious. So maybe id travel roads first. And travel waterways if possible. It really is a race against time. If you know how to sail and the river is wide enough that could help too.
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Actually as i put more thought into it, im wrong about the roads being safe at first. Thats where the panic will start. Every one on the road will be stranded. Panic will happen tjere immediately. Back to hiding in the woods.
With the trip being so dangerous, and me so far away, why am i risking the trip home? Unless my family is not with me, im staying put.
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On your first point....I figured you would come to that realization with a little more thought. However it won't just be on the roads. Ever see what happens to store inventories when a hurricane is coming? That should tell you a lot about just how unprepared most people are even for temporary inconveniences. Now think nationwide, no power grid, no trucks bringing the necessities and probably no controlling legal authority. That thin blue line is way to thin in the best of times.
That brings us to your second point. Aside from you being far from kith and kin and them needing you home ASAP being a key point to the proposed scenario, even if you were with your family but far from home staying put means becoming a refugee relying on the benevolence and generosity of strangers who don't know you or trust you and have little to nothing to give if they did. Think about the word "refugee" do you really want to have that term apply to you and your family? Just more food for thought. Josh
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Pays to have a bug out bag and plan. My wife and i have a set meeting place should we ever get seperated due to an event.
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Pays to have a bug out bag and plan. My wife and i have a set meeting place should we ever get seperated due to an event.
The fact that your wife will even consider the possibility of a disaster with long term ramifications puts you well ahead of me in preparedness. My wife won't even entertain the hint of a hypothetical SHTF scenario. As far as she's concerned Wal-Mart will always be 5 miles away and will always have anything she needs. It's frustrating to say the least. Josh
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I hope she is right. But i dont think so. It doesnt take mich for this house of cards to fall. It has before. WWI and II great depression, Revolutionary and Civil war. Those were on a national and world scale. Then look at smaller areas like Ferguson Mo, with man made chaos based on geo political events. Or natural disasters like Katrina.
Fact. There WILL be times in all areas where thestores are not an option. For how long depends only on severity of the problem and reaction to it. Politics can escalate a benign one into a large one if a point is to be made of it.
In the gear list, we would be sucking if we didnt have at least two pair of shoes. I went through two pair in the last 3 month just working. You need your feet healthy and dry. A second pair can save you.
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well i for one would have at least 1 flint/steel on me and 1 in the back of the car i was using in my emergency kit with everything you mentioned, i would also have a good ammount of energy bars/emergency food that was packable so that i could eat small snacks/energy bars mid travel so that i could prioritize hunting/fishing for dinner/breakfast only.
the best thing to have would be also a map and compass, said map covering the area you are in all the way to the area your trying to get to (though that would be relatively impossible to get a detailed map that goes across the country that isent big AF)
if not then i would have to stick near big roadways that have direction signs telling me what interstate road goes to which state etc in order for me to get a good idea of where im going.
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Randall and McNally road atlas could easily fit into a large pack. Granted it's no detailed topo map but it would suffice. I think I would try to raid a museum or antique engine club and look for steam powered transport or some kind. Hot air balloons would also be unaffected, though not exactly ideal transport with a specific location in mind, kind of a where the winds may take me vehicle. Would a faraday cage protect against such a large EMP? If so a couple dirt bikes stored in one could prove invaluable, or better yet an ultra-light or para-plane.
The hordes of starving and frightened people would more than likely be looking for help of some kind leading them from city to city. You're gonna bump into people if you're on the move it's unavoidable. It would help to appear one of two ways. Either look like you're staving, sick, or crazy and have nothing to offer, or go "road warrior" wearing bones, and carrying a large visible weapon and wearing someone else's face for a mask. Use their fear to your advantage. Make no mistake, the more frightened you are the quicker you'll expire. Only the true wild men/women would seek the wilderness knowing it has everything needed to keep you alive. The current cultural view is that that the woods are scary, unpredictable and dangerous. The TV makes it seem nearly impossible for even a well versed woodsman/woman to stay alive. I have to giggle when I see a survival expert eating bugs and drinking is own urine on TV, just to boost ratings. No one would watch if every third plant come across was edible and contained enough water to keep from dehydrating. I have 3 or 4 plant and mushroom ID books that never leave my backpack(after years of practice they're mostly memorized though). Travelling over a distance there will be places with food and places without. Binge eat when near food and rely on what you can carry when you're not.
The key to survival in such a situation is being mobile and extremely resourceful. If you have a doomsday stash of supplies in a bunker you've pretty much cursed yourself. You've chained yourself to a giant target that you now depend on for survival. Learn to make tools and forage food, knowledge is power. That way if you do come in contact with pillaging hoards, you're far more valuable to them alive than what they can loot off your corpse. Provided of course it takes more than a couple months for cannibalism to become popular.
Where are we all gonna meet up when this happens anyway? You guys are certainly a step ahead in this game and are most welcome in my camp for sure.
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I'm almost 70. I think if if the SHTF I'll just curl up and die. :D :D :D
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I;m almost 68 and figure I may have another 30 years in me. Don't think it would be any fun to keep on living though, but would want to ride it out to see what God is going to do.
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Oh yeah, but at 68 you're still a young pup. I wouldn't even have played with you in elementary school ;D ;D ;D
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I'm a bit of a fan of the genre in fiction, books/movies etc. Anything apocalyptic I'm in even if the acting and directing is bad if it's got a good take on the genre I love it. Whether it's nuclear, financial, energy, or zombie there's always some hope of getting past the initial phases and eventual long term survival. Then I read The Road by Cormac McCarthy. If you haven't read this book don't, and by don't I of course mean run right out and get it and then wish you hadn't when you're done, lol. Man, that scenario, just no hope at all, great book but holy crap...
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I'm pretty sure in case of such dramatic events only a very small part of the patterns we can foresee could be applied.
the big difference would be made by pure luck, resilience and fitness in the order.
the first one it's not trainable. Resilience is hard to train and consist in trying every day to set new goals and try to achieve them, never give up challenges.
Probably the eseast part is to try to stay fit and health
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Agree GlisGlis. I've been doing the fitness part. I started this thread to get ideas I hadn't thought of. Lots of people have given me such ideas. I have had to think differently about travel after an EMP. I've been readying a bicycle to carry in my truck, but now have to consider that a bike would be a very attractive thing for somebody to kill me for. (Of course, they would then be the next target for somebody else.)
I would differ a little. I don't believe in luck. It would be up to God whether I made it 2,400 miles home without starving, freezing or being killed by a highwayman.
It's a very treacherous concept, this apocalyptic exodus.
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im just 19 so ive got some work to do if i wanna survive when the gov decides to poop in front of the industrial blower if you catch my drift.
that being said i would prefer to either A find a suitable place in the middle of nowhere to build out post breakdown, or B keep on the move like the OP mentioned, i have a mountain bike and with all that ive been reading recently its kept my mind on survival items, a portable solar panel that i can use to charge my batteries (in the event of a non solar flare/emp apocalypse) spare bike parts miniature screw driver with various bits (say i wanna unscrew a door (or lockpicks which i DO have) to get inside a potentially resource filled building)
i know how to make black powder and could potentially build my own metalworking forge from scratch.
what i need to work on is woodworking (hence my arrival on a site that helps show people how to make bows xD) and plant identification, speaking of i just got my mothers book called "Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs" which i wanna try and memorize at least the stuff in my area. given the chance, if SHTF doesent happen as soon as some of us may think, ide like to try and get a education in naturopathic medicine which there is a university in my state that gives degree's in, but thats quite a few years out so im not pegging on that when it comes to emergency survival knowledge.
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Big problem is the government will probably try and disarm, and prevent folks from moving around like we want to in this case. And I can GUARANTEE they will be better prepared than we will be.
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well now you have to consider what you mean by "disarm" usually its firearms. and everyone here uses bows so i wouldnt worry on that part.
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Id be worried.
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Cool thread, the getting home part would be tough if not impossible in a reasonable length of time, now if it happens and I am home I know where I will head and I have enough stuff there to stop those that want to take what I have [not share] at least for the short term . I figure it will take 2 or 3 months to settle down and most of the masses to be dead. I think at that point me and my family would be fine except for the radiation leaks yall have brought up, in that case it really ant going to matter to anyone. We will all get to meet our maker. :)
Pappy
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I'm gonna have to agree with Pappy.. Being home is one thing.. If I was away on the other side of the Rockies I would find shelter, supply up and fortify.. Trying to cross a range with fall on the way would be suicide.. Radiation I always looked good in green... It is good to think about it and be prepared
Thanks Leroy
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A little late chiming in, but you would already be pressed for time. It snows up high all year. Crossing the high desert would give you fits due to high daytime, and low night time temps. From Portland to MS is about 2400 miles. It could be walked in 787 Hours. So, if nothing went bad, and you just walked 10 hours a day, you'd get home in a few months. Get a horse, cut it down a bit. It would be tough.
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I think it would be tough tough to avoid other people, if not impossible for a year or two. There are so many people in this country and we are from the most populated. Yes millions and millions would be clueless and killing each other in the cities. But people are reslilient! I think they would spread out fast from areas of populace to the wild. I traveled coast to coast hitch hiking and walking and I was amazed at how often I encountered other travelers in a random seemingly Podunk town particularly when I looked for as pot to hide and sleep for a few hours. I d duck Ito a little grove of trees or bushes and there would be someone already in there!! I would rather travel alone, but hooking up with a group might be necessary and unavoidable
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well the way to fix that problem is to simply just find a hidey hole and stay there. most people who do their homework on post apocalypse generally agree that 90% of the population will be completely decimated after the first couple months.
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The sucky thing is, you may be best off staying put until the xhaos slows down, then make the trip and find out if you have a family to come home to when you get there.
The goal is to stay alive, you are no good to your family dead. Some things will be out of your hands. Train your family to handle themselves is the best you can do for them. Id let them know now jn an event like this to not worry about me, just stay alive, and if i am, i will find them.
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If it happens, I think I'll just have to keep reassessing the conditions. A quick exit east on the first day (or night) might be a good idea. I'd only be dealing with people doing the same thing. Then hole up for a couple of days and watch. Much will depend on whether any or all vehicles are disabled. If my '94 Ranger will run, I can put some distance between me and the valley folks till I run out of gas. Then hole up, or bike onward as conditions dictate. Hoping all this thought and effort isn't needed.