Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Primitive1 on July 20, 2011, 06:47:58 pm
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Osage sapling about 3yrs old...belly has longitudinal crack but appears to only go to 'core'...probably won't be evident in finished bow. I've finished chasing down the back to a usable fat ring (there's only 3 from the core) and very carefully left the pin knots proud. Length is 70" with the top of the sapling at just over an inch in diameter and the bottom at about an inch and a quarter. The back is high crowned (think of a paper towel tube) and you can see the pin knots all over the place where I worked the back down...so, I would love to keep the length, shoot for a handle area of about 1 1/16th wide and tips around 3/8 of an inch...I know it's long for osage but would like to distribute the stress as far along as I can to alleviate the possiblity of any knot issues/failures. Reaching for 60-65# @ 28"...thoughts? Here are a couple of pics, just finished the back...
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I sure wish Mr. Sonny Iman from Ohio was still with us. He used to call them "limb bows". He'd give you the best advice. As long as your sapling is, you should probably meet the stats you are hoping for. Beware of the small diameter back, though. You will have to inspect regularly for lifts just in front and behind the pin knots. Back sinew wrapping usually holds them down, if it does happen. Sonny would leave the handle area uncut and fade into cuts for the upper and lower limbs. Usually starting about halfway through the limb about into the pith. The final bow often would tiller down beyond the pith. Sonny's bows were shorter, if I recall between 52 and 60 inches. He was a 26" shooter, thereabouts. I would leave it thick to be on the safe side and do the remaining thinning with the hand tools. Good Luck!
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thats nice, should make a nice bow... wish we had osage here. post pics of your progress Id like to see how it turns out
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I've always hear that osage was one of the tension strong woods, although chasing a ring undoubtedly leaves some fibres cut. Other than that 70 inches might be a little long for osage with its density. In the end though, you could probably do what you want with this other than a paddle bow.
The crown will act as a trapped back too, upping performance a bit.
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I made one five years ago from an osage pole given to me by Pat B, I decrowned it and sinue backed the working limb part of it. It has a glued on piece of wood to make the handle thick enough and a mollie ish profile, 62" nockto nock with slightly thickned and 5/16" wide lever tips. It has over two inches of reflex and shoots nice even tho it came in seriously under weight at only 42# at 28". Kenneth
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Nice limb/pole.I have made several like that and do about like what MWirwicki
said,Start in the middle and leave the handle full,and tapper the limb from there,I have also split them or sawed them right down the center and made a bend handle bow,you get 2 for one that way. You are right MW,Sonny was a fine Man,I used to camp with him and his wife in Cloverdale for several years and would buy all the kids arrows he had,the TwinOaks kids all grew up shooting his arrows. He was the limb bow master. :) :) :) Also you can keep in mind,It don't take much
Osage to make a bow. ;) :) Good luck and keep us posted. :)
Pappy
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I first read about Sonny Iman in an old issue of PA. Loved his ideas about his "limbows". I got to meet Sonny when my wife and I stopped by a shoot going on at Farmland, In on our way home from Northeast IN. Had a chance to chat for a few minutes and fondle a few of Sonny's bows.
I have made a few (limbows, pole bows, etc)myself and I kept the sapwood on like Sonny did.
My first was a 3" diameter I sawed in half lengthwise and removed all but a few sapwood rings. I sent half to Little John and built a bow from my half. One problem we had was the excessive backset they drew up in. The bow I built is 66"t/t, 53#@26" and still holds about 3 1/2" to 4" of backset. It did lift a splinter on the high crowned back. One day I'll rawhide back it for insurance.
The last set of staves I made from a pole I sawed a 2" diameter pole with just the bark removed and the back sealed with shellac. After sawing I bound the 2 halves back together with a few spacers between to allow air flow. After a few months I unbound them and they held a slightly reflex side profile. Haven't made a bow from mine yet but am looking forward to it.
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I've chased the back down and now I'm doing the same thing on the belly...just wanting to make sure of where I'm at and that any side knots are given their due and not inadvertantly cut down or weakened in any way...should I just cut through the belly knots? I'm thinking that if I 'chase a ring' on both the belly and back and then flatten them to some degree (most likely won't even be cutting through the rings since they're large), I'll be able to distribute both stresses a little bit better and perhaps better avoid the possibility of a knot failure...anyway, here are a few pics of where I'm at on the belly...you can see the longitudinal crack that doesn't wander off of either side...not sure what, if anything, I'm going to do about that yet...but it shouldn't affect the bow one way or the other from what I've read (other than the need to seal it some way after completion of tiller)...it's wonderful to be back at this again, it's been awhile! (life happens between bows, eh?)
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That looks like a drying crack. You did everything right. You got close to heartwood with ring chasing which means the sapwood is stronger the closer you get. You left the stave a few inches longer than usual to counteract the crown. I'd say you are good to go. Now if you make a slightly bending handle you would be in a little better shape. I like making sapling bows too. Jawge
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Well, I'm very close to being finished...had her in the drying box overnight prior to putting a parrafin/was finish on her and a handle wrap. Turned out better than I thought...definitely hit my target weight of 65# @ 28"...actually a little beyond that so I want to shoot her a bit more to have things settle in and then I'll post some 'money' shots. It's good to be back at this! I've got a couple bows resting against the bench that are next on the block...one of them is absolutely ugly, ugly, ugly and shorter than I like...hope I can pull it off...Cheers, P1.
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That is one interesting looking stick! Any chance you can post some better pics of the back and maybe add an explanation of what the deep groove is there for? LOVE the character of that one...wow.
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Looks like it's a shooter...Great job....wonder about the hand shock though.
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Sure Lee, the 'core' or valley on the belly is where the pith was (soft, spongy core of the sapling)...I had to make a simple, yet interesting tool to be able to remove it successfully without tearing things up. Here's a couple of other pics...still working the poundage down some...around 60#+ at this point...gonna stop now and get some wax and a handle on her...
Beadman...I kept it somewhat still through the handle and near tip area...no noticable hand-shock. Thanks, P1.
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NICE. ... ;D. I hope that belly holds up. That's def unique. Excellent bend. I imagine it will hold up with that tiller.
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All done, wax application and handle applied...on to the next one! 69.5" NtN, 63# @ 27"
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cool bow. Thanks for sharing it with us. I like how it looks with the pith taken out.
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Thanks Blackhawk and Gaur...it is one of three 'sapling' types I've had around for a long time...time to tackle'em...the second sapling bow is 56" NtN; I de-crowned the back and it has a nasty hole right at the handle and the limbs come out at different 'heights' from the handle (upper limb is high on the handle and lower limb comes out low)...there's also a bunch of nasty knots that will be a challenge. The third sapling bow I've kept a good deal of the sapwood on and bamboo backed it...also put in a rather severe deflex/reflex...should be fun. I'll post those on another thread. Thanks again for the kind words, take care - P1.
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Beautiful bow,love that simple stick,Very well tillered,I bet it will spit and arrow
to boot. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy, it's just for that reason that I went with an over-simplified handle of hemp/twine...normally I use/like a well shaped leather handle but I felt this stick just didn't want it...it feels better in my hand than I thought! Rough and secure... Going to try and get her out today to shoot her in a bit more but also trying to get the other two saplings bows done and move my tillering 'exercise' tree...never enough time. Cheers - P1
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That looks fantastic! Jawge
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That looks fantastic! Jawge
Yeah, I know I have already commented on this bow but I couldn't agree with you more George, it really intrigues me with the hollow portions and the pith removed. In fact I was so inspired I went out to my local Osage haunts and "harvested" two likely candidate saplings >:D
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What a good presentation..beautiful pics of removed pith and excelent belly...
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Great work, love it!
(I would narow the tips a bit) :)
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That is quite a bow!
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Sweet, that's what primitive is really about.
Maximum bow with minimum wood removal/sweat.
Del
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Yes Sir,
Really liking this bow.
-gus
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I really like this bow! John Strunk recently built a Osage sapling bow like this and he said he really likes the way its perfoming! So much that he is hunting Elk with it right now during the 2011 season. I really want to try one of these! Great job!
Josh
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absolutely awesome! love the whole thing and the tiller is saweeet!.
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Del the Cat...yup, I get it...KISS principle...
HoBow, thanks for the compliment!
fusizoli, thanks much! The tips, though seemingly wide, are helped by the fact that they're missing some belly wood...she is shooting beautifully!
Druid, thanks much! That salamander bow has me reveiwing my monstrous stash of ash...some of which are quite deflexed at the start...that is one wicked cool looking bow! (Also fell in love with the elm reflex/deflex!)
Lee Slickers...I've been thinking that although this stave 'behaved' itself during drying, that moving forward, I might 'score' a side of the sapling to help the wood only shrink/split on the belly side...might be that it helps in further attempts (some of my saplings split in ways that are too ugly to post, yrk...)
George Tsoukalas, Thanks Jawge!
Gus, thank-you very much...
Elk-tracker; that is very interesting, didn't know that (John Strunk working one and using it...)...now that I'm thinking about it though, kinda brings the whole 'mass principle' into flux, eh (limb mass reduced due to 'pith' core removal)? I have been shooting this bow hard this last week, no set, very little hand shock and fast...what's not to love? I just find myself wondering how many saplings out there will behave as nicely drying only on the one side making life easy. I'm sorting arrows during my shooting sessions now for this years hunt; first 'Dad and son' deer/turkey hunt this year to make some further magic (hopefully) with this bow...getting some very nice responses...like...ah, no way!...but she keeps on shooting and performing very well...what a nice feeling that is!
ErictheViking...thank-you very much; I've found that half of secret of tillering is knowing when to STOP! LOL...cheers, P1.
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did the pithy center not go the length of the bow? i am just curious why one limb has the groove and the other does not.
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Yes, the pith was the length of the bow. It disappears near the handle because it goes under the wood and fades out near one of the tips...I've found through past experiences with sapling bows that although you would think that the pith would run down the center/middle of the sapling, it wanders around quite a bit in there!
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im starting an osage limb very similar to this. good advice here
sky
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Cool looking bow - great job!
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Sky shooter: Have fun and good luck...! Keep us posted on your progress...I have to update mine on the other two saplings I was working on, just have to take the time to take photo's/post etc...
Postman: Thank-you very much...
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Absolutely love this kind of bow!!
You did an amazing job... I'm in awe, ala-natural!!
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ill post on my progress on its own thread. the limbs about 11/4 diameter and 60'' long
have fun shootin that bow in the mean time!
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Hey I remember Lloyd Lippert making a similar bow from an old osage tomato stake for the hatchet bow contest one year. That was a nice bow!
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I know it's an old thread...just wanted to say, she's my 'go to' bow to this day...still shooting hard and sweet. I thinned the tips down a wee bit a couple of year's ago, but still shooting 5 years later. Good stuff osage, good stuff!
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Pole bows are some of my favorites. It really doesn't take much wood to make a good bow.
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Very cool bow. Glad you pulled it up - I had not seen that one before!
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I'm glad it got bumped up too - that bow is a real inspiration! I have a couple of similar looking staves in the rafters that I need to get to soon. A "simple" stick like that, with a graceful D shape when strung, is still my favorite sort of bow. That's great that it is still your regular bow after all this time.
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Glad this got brought back up, cool bow
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Wow! I work a lot with tiny saplings like that, and that looks just like so many of them with all the humps and bumps, EXCEPT you had to chase a ring on that. Which I don't because mine are usually elm or mulberry, etc! That alone took a steady, patient hand. I also get away with bumps using width and allowing some run out of knot stubs, or shaping roller coaster waves along the edges, but yours is so narrow........... and THEN you had to deal with the pith. Beautiful. Amazing.
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I can't believe it! That bow is so cool! This is craftsmanship at it's finest
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Love this bow. Wow