Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Gordon on January 03, 2009, 09:16:39 pm

Title: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2009, 09:16:39 pm
Here are some pictures of a bow I recently made out of a 1 ¾” diameter service berry sapling. The bow’s length is 59” ntn and it pulls 63# @ 27”. The limbs are 1 3/8” wide from the handle to mid-limb then tapering to ½” at the tips. The handle is 1 ¼ “ wide and flexes slightly when the bow is drawn. I used a heat gun to flip the tips up a bit and the bow holds about 1 ½” of reflex. The handle is deer hide with a Strunk style wrap and the wood is stained with medium brown leather dye. I used Tru-Oil to finish the bow. A sinew patch was applied to the upper limb to reinforce a small knot that started to crack. I’ve drawn the bow 1500 times and put about 200 arrows through it so I think the patch will hold. I used simple self-nocks and no arrow rest so that I could qualify this bow for primitive shoots. I hope you like it.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_01.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_02.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_03.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_04.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_05.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/SBsapling_06.jpg)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: aruge on January 03, 2009, 09:26:35 pm
Beautiful bow.  Al
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Jesse on January 03, 2009, 09:27:35 pm
Great bow Gordon. I really like the colr and the tiller looks great. Is it just an illusion or did you file across the back for the string grooves?
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2009, 09:33:48 pm
Quote
Is it just an illusion or did you file across the back for the string grooves?

Oh heavens I would not do that with a self nock! The wood does, however, tend to compress at that point because I use a FF string.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: tdog on January 03, 2009, 09:36:18 pm
Very cool. I really like the colorful job in dyeing the limbs. Beautiful!

Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Keenan on January 03, 2009, 10:07:31 pm
 Now that's a bow :o :o :o  The profile on that is awesome Gordon, and love that you kept it a clean primitive.  So share your thoughts on service berry. I was very supprized by the strength. How dose it shoot.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Pat B on January 03, 2009, 10:14:37 pm
Very nice Gordon. I wonder how our serviceberry compares to the Western variety.    Pat
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2009, 10:23:59 pm
Keenan,

How are you doing my friend? I hope your recovery is going well.

I found service berry to be a surprisingly strong bow wood. A vine maple bow with similar dimensions would pull about 45 lbs. So the wood is very dense - almost like osage. I don't have a chrono so I don't know how fast it shoots, but I'm very confident it would take down just about any N. American big game if the arrow is put in the right place. The wood is easier to scrape than vine maple because it does not chatter like VM will. I kept the belly flat so I'm not sure how resistant to compression it is. The next one I make I'll radius the belly somewhat and see how it holds up.

Gordon
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: hawkbow on January 03, 2009, 11:59:26 pm
beautifull bow brother, looks like a meat maker for sure.. great job Hawk a/ho
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: koan on January 04, 2009, 12:05:38 am
Gordon..you have done it again! ;)...everyone else wait to post your bows till next month, this one will be hard to beat! :o....Brian
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: FlintWalker on January 04, 2009, 12:36:50 am
Very beautiful Gordon.  Not just a bow, but a work of art!  Saw Filer
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: adb on January 04, 2009, 12:42:51 am
A super bow, as usual!
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: AKAPK on January 04, 2009, 03:52:37 am
It's like a miracle how a person can work a piece of wood like that, really inspiring, hope I can do that with the maple branches I got Curing. Sure would like to know more about your Arrows those always look good also.  :)Phillip
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: DanaM on January 04, 2009, 08:03:37 am
Another beauty Gordon :) I have several pieces of serviceberry drying, problem is they always end up having terminal twist :'(
Oh well I will keep looking.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: John B. on January 04, 2009, 10:25:43 am
Very, very nice.  You got a lot of bow out of that little sapling.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Ryano on January 04, 2009, 12:25:49 pm
Nice Job as always Gordon. You seem to be making a lot of this type of bow lately, They are fun to shoot arent they.  ;)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 04, 2009, 01:12:15 pm
Thank you Al and TDog.

Thank you Pat. Unfortunately I don’t know much about the eastern variety of service berry. You’ll have to try it and let us know.

Thank you Mike.  I think this bow would make a nice hunting weapon, particularly when hunting in close quarters.

Brian, thank you for the compliment. But I am confident there will be lots of great bows posted this month – there is just too much talent in this community to hold back

Thank you SF and adb.

Thank you Philip. It is still amazing to me that such powerful weapons can be made from simple saplings – it’s pretty neat really. I’m glad you like my arrows. There are nothing special really. Just hardwood shafts, feathers shaped using a burner, and a simple crest.

Thanks Dana. Service berry does have a tendency to twist. I am helping Bryan Briand build a bow from a somewhat twisted SB sapling. It’s actually turning out surprisingly nice so don’t give up on those twisted pieces.

Thank you John.

Ryan, I’ve been focusing on this style because I want to master building bows from saplings. After making a few of these I am convinced that if you can successfully tiller a character sapling, you can tiller anything. They are also kind of cool to look at and shoot.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: OldBow on January 04, 2009, 01:18:28 pm
Simply gorgeous! Serviceberry, hawthorn, chokecherry are all in the rose family and can make good bows.
Serviceberry is also common across the U.S., although ours...P. virginiana , is what I am familiar with. Luckily, I have lots even in my backyard :)
Obviously, Gordon, has made a superior bow bookmarked for Jan '09 Self Bow of the Month, too.
The wood in serviceberry is a soft satin brown: see pic

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: koan on January 04, 2009, 01:24:41 pm
Anyone got a pic of the tree, I dont know what it looks like....Brian
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 04, 2009, 01:43:06 pm
That's interesting Don. The wood color of the service berry we have around here is white.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 04, 2009, 03:50:23 pm
Beautiful bow, Gordon. Congratulations! Jawge
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: terence pinder on January 04, 2009, 08:03:33 pm
i have also come across a lot of twisted sapplings most of them after i got them home.good thing my yard is full of them
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: ricktrojanowski on January 04, 2009, 08:42:29 pm
Another beautiful bow Gordon. Tiller looks great.  Not to mention all the finish details.  Great job.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Shooter_G22 on January 04, 2009, 10:43:07 pm
Gordon,

  That is a beautiful bow...  and looks swift and deadly...  i really like it...  and like that it is of something of a unusual bow wood makes it all the greater...  ;D  i really like it...

Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: huntinoly on January 04, 2009, 11:11:09 pm
Great bow Gordon, I like the profile. I have been working on a serviceberry bow this week. It is very easy to work. I made it 1 5/8 wide and 5/8 tips but after seeing yours I think I will trim it down. I just braced it for the first time. Can I flip the tips with just dry heat and how does is do with heat treating. It is 60" ntn and I am shooting for 60# @ 27". It is a bend through the handle style bow like yours. I have three other bows I want your to look at when I get down there. Greg
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 05, 2009, 12:02:13 am
Greg, use dry heat to flip the tips after the first brace. I helped Bryan Briand heat treat his SB bow and it took to it quite nicely. I'm looking forward to seeing your bows!
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: RT on January 05, 2009, 01:25:53 am
Beauiful bow Gordon, Congratulation. RT
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Jbell on January 05, 2009, 01:36:09 am
Stunning as usual Gordon. You set the standard for a beautiful bow.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Pappy on January 05, 2009, 06:38:58 am
Beautiful bow Gordon,very well done. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: GregB on January 05, 2009, 08:08:58 am
Very nice bow Gordon, great job on it!
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Pat B on January 05, 2009, 12:01:59 pm
Koan, You may have heard of it as Sarvis, Shadbush, Shad blow, Juneberry.   Has bark very familiar to red maple and is one of the first native trees to bloom, with little 5 pedal white flowers followed with a blue berry looking fruit.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: BryanB on January 05, 2009, 02:54:26 pm
Wonderful bow Gordon.
It turned out sweet.
This is your second bow from wood collected from a failed turkey hunt (Hawthorne & Serviceberry).
Now the only wood left is that Madroda.  I have an idea for getting two straight & clean pieces from it.
I hope your tools are sharp!!!!
Bryan
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 05, 2009, 02:58:54 pm
Not only are they sharp, but ready - bring it on!

Thank you all for the great comments.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: koan on January 05, 2009, 06:29:01 pm
Thanks Pat, I think thats all around my lake ;)....Brian
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: brownhillboy on January 05, 2009, 08:04:06 pm
As usual Gordon, another work of art! :)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: david w. on January 05, 2009, 10:09:13 pm
Wow I really love that bow :)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: servicebeary on January 10, 2009, 11:58:48 pm
I can only hope that my sapling in the shed that I'm bout to start on will look anywhere near that nice.  I wonder if it's dry after 5 months with the bark off and being sealed with a waxy sealer?  I think it's called Greenwood sealer.   
                                     inspired -nick
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: BigWapiti on January 11, 2009, 12:44:50 am
Holy Moly Gordon - that is a gorgeous bow.  You just keep placing nicer and nicer bows for us to drool over.   Thanks for sharing. 

I'd love to have an eighth of your wood talent.  My bows shoot, kinda, and they're so primitive looking they tend to appear like they've been rotting in the forest since the dawn of time... heheh  (and, sigh, its never the goal).

Beautiful bow!!!!

MikeB
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: a finnish native on January 11, 2009, 07:33:58 am
Damn! I sure have been missing out on a lot of great bows. it's good to be here again. Great bow gordon.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: DirtyDan on January 11, 2009, 12:29:32 pm
Outstanding bow in all respects, Gordon.  I love the color, the profile, the way you addressed the knot problem, the handle wrapping, the tiller is perfect.  What a great job on a sapling.  I love sapling bows because I believe that they are probably the best representatives of the true primitive tradition.  Congratulations.

Dan Spier
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2009, 02:52:40 pm
Nick, 5 months should be sufficient drying time if the stave was split and the bark removed. Thank you for the compliment.

Mike, there is nothing wrong with the primitive look - I'm favoring that more and more. Thank you.

Thank you FinnishN.

Dan, sapling bows are great in that they expand the universe of wood that you can choose from. Once you get the hang of them, you can pretty go anywhere and find a stick that will make a bow. Thank you for the nice words.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: venisonburger on January 11, 2009, 05:44:45 pm
Hey Gordon, make a bad bow, something ugly with terrible tiller, something no one would want to own, the reason I ask this is because I don't think you can, lol, everything you make is a beauty.
Just kidding ya, I'm sure in the beginning you made some less than beautiful bows, we all have, some of us are still making them.
I guess what I'm saying is "Nice bow"!!
VB
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: BigWapiti on January 11, 2009, 11:14:44 pm
You're a humble guy Gordon - I think that's what a lot of us appreciate about you.  So its not only for sharing your outstanding bows! :)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Justin Snyder on January 11, 2009, 11:53:20 pm
Great looking bow Gordon. Is it decrowned?  Justin
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2009, 02:18:36 am
VB, I've made my fair share of less than perfect bows - I just don't post them  :-[ Thank you for the compliment.

Thank you Mike, but honestly there are lots of folks in this community that make really great bows - and I learn something from every one of them.

Thank you Justin. No, this bow is not decrowned.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: juniper junkie on January 13, 2009, 11:48:52 am
another awesome bow! I am going to start on one of the serviceberry staves we cut at the gathering. it has lots of pin knots, not sure if these will be a problem. are you going to the TAO banquet? hope to see you there.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2009, 01:28:27 pm
Dave,

Pin knots in serviceberry can be a challenge. If they are close to the edge and extend through the side of the limb they will tend to crack under compression. One potential way to deal with this is to radius the belly slightly so that stress is more concentrated toward the center of the limb. Of course that solution can lead to other problems if you are not careful. Good luck!

Gordon
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Shaun on January 13, 2009, 06:41:04 pm
YOU might be able to "go anywhere and find a stick that will make a bow" but not every one. Once again you have set a very high standard for the rest of us to reach for. Glad to see the hat is back - missed it on a recent bow draw photo of a different bow. I really like that your full draw photos show FULL draw, too many 2/3 draw photos posted by others. I could look at your tiller profiles all day. Once again, well done sir!
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: servicebeary on January 15, 2009, 02:34:27 pm
Gordon,         hey I'm having a tough time visualizing just exactly how that comes from such a small sapling.  Not saying that is doesn't, just looks so flat from the pics.      Could you post a close up of the side by chance so I can see where the back ends exactly?
                                       thanks again, nick
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 15, 2009, 08:09:51 pm
Sure, though it may be challenging to see the dividing line clearly because I radius all my edges.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/svb_side1.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Serviceberry/svb_side2.jpg)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 15, 2009, 08:39:36 pm
Nick,

I went back and measured my stock of remaining serviceberry staves and they are all 2" in diameter or slightly less. You'd be hard pressed to find serviceberry larger than that in this area. So it's possible this one was 2" - I really didn't measure it carefully before I built it.

Gordon
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Blacktail on January 15, 2009, 09:51:47 pm
nick,you have to know that gordon is an artist...he goes by natural curves like on a lady  ;D ::) ;D
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: servicebeary on January 15, 2009, 10:27:23 pm
hey, thanks a lot, that helped a lot.  I actually have a place where I consistently find 3" staves, but a lot of them have terminal twist and I get really tore up literally belly-crawling through the "Serviceberry forest" to get to good staves.  The best one I had I gave to a friend and it just happened to be absolutely strait with an impressively flat back.  I have to admit I didn't think it was the best of the bunch ;D  got what I deserved I guess.  I need to give him a call and see if he finished it yet.   
     -nick
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 15, 2009, 11:01:07 pm
Nick,

A buddy of mine once found a serviceberry tree that was about 3" in diameter and I made a bow out of it for him. But that's a pretty rare find around these parts. That's my buddy holding the bow.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/Yurok/yurok6.jpg)
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: stickbender on January 16, 2009, 04:26:05 am

     Gordon is Serviceberry considered a white wood?  Or do you have to go to the heart wood, and chase a ring?  Also are the berries eddible?  Thanks. :)
                                                                                             Wayne
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Pat B on January 16, 2009, 10:19:58 am
I'll have to try some of our eastern "sarvis". It grows up to about 6" in diameter(I've seen some bigger but very few). I sent Old Bow a 2" Sarvis pole a few years ago but one limb broke(I believe) and he may have joined the other limb to a western variety of service berry. (East meets West) ;D
  Gordon, when I cut the eastern sarvis I'll send you a stave to try, for comparison.      Pat
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2009, 10:29:01 am
I read that the fruit is edible, but I have never tried it. The serviceberry variety we have in this area has a light colored wood that is very dense. I understand that some varieties have a brownish wood with a distinct lighter colored sapwood.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Barrage on January 16, 2009, 02:38:28 pm
I believe serviceberry is the same as Saskatoon's, which we have here.  If so they are definitely edible - my grandma makes a mean saskatoon pie, and jam.  Never thought to make a bow out of a sapling though.  Going to have to keep my eyes open...
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: DanaM on January 16, 2009, 02:45:11 pm
Serviceberry or June Berry as some call it is most definately edible, I tried some off the tree this year before the birds got em all
anyway they didn't really have much flavor. If you look up service berry you will see that there are many different species but most of
them are very similiar. Heck You would have to be Hillbilly to tell em apart :) I've found them here up to 6" in diameter but it seems
like the bigger they get the more twist they have and I for one can't see the twist as they have such a smooth bark. I cut about 20 last year and
I may have one or two that aren't to twisted to use.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: BryanB on January 16, 2009, 03:07:57 pm
I'm finishing up a serviceberry bow that has a fair amount of prop-twist in it.
Don't give up on the twisted ones, they can still make a very nice bow.
Bryan
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 17, 2009, 01:48:37 pm
I concur with Bryan. The bow is he is refering to came from a stave that I would have discarded because of what I considered excessive twist. But Bryan would not be deterred and sawed the tree right down the middle completely ignoring the twisted grain. After tillering, the limbs are propellered some, but the bow turned out remarkably well notwithstanding. After his experience I may not be quite as picky about twist as before.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: PatM on January 17, 2009, 05:09:35 pm
It grow quite extensively up here in Canada as well. All very twisted but some of them are very large. Up to 10 inches in diameter in some cases. It's too bad that for an understory tree that likes to grow up forever without branching that it can be so wavy and twisted.
 I might have to get a couple and "straight line" the twist with a bandsaw.
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: DanaM on January 17, 2009, 07:00:55 pm
Hmmmm guess I'm going to have to try and saw one down the middle also. I cut some big ones up into
firewood after splitting them and realizing they were twisted badly, could have been a mistake :'(
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: huntinoly on January 19, 2009, 01:31:00 pm
Gordon, I finished tillering my serviceberry bow it turned out great. I am impressed with serviceberry the limbs are very thin for a 59# bow. It ended up 59.5" long 1 7/16" wide at the fads, 1 1/8" at the grip, 1/2" at the tips and 59# @ 27". It holds about 3/4" reflex at rest and follows the string about 3/4" after shooting. I just need to stain and finish it. The lot next to my house is full of serviceberry nice strait stuff, I will be out cutting some more. I do have a question about sapling bows, this bow follows the string in the first third of the upper limb, there is a very high crown in that area, the rest of the bow is not that high. Is this a indication to be more carefull when I see that next time not take as must wood off in those areas. Thanks Greg
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 19, 2009, 02:25:37 pm
I wouldn't think that a high crown would necessarily result in more set - at least that has not been my experience. I bet you could alleviate that by tempering the belly of the area that is following the string. I am also impressed with serviceberry and how little wood is required to make a hunting weight bow - it almost has the same dimensions as a bow made from osage.

When will we see pictures of your bow?
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: huntinoly on January 19, 2009, 02:46:11 pm
I have not had time to find out how to resize pictures. I am not that good with computers and stuff, I would rather work on bows or go fishing. I have one bow finished and three more tillered just waiting for things to warm up to put the finish on them. I am going to be a Grandpa some time today. Greg
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: stickbender on January 19, 2009, 02:52:29 pm

     Gordon, do you use the heartwood, or sap wood, on Service berry?

                                                                 Wayne
Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: Gordon on January 19, 2009, 03:46:19 pm
Congratulations Greg, that's just terrific! I can help you with the pictures if you like.

Wayne, I just removed the bark and that was the back. The serviceberry wood we have around here doesn't seem to have distinct sap/heartwood separation.

Title: Re: Serviceberry Sapling Bow
Post by: stickbender on January 20, 2009, 02:12:13 am

     Ok, thanks Gordon. ;)

                                                    Wayne