Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bigcountry on January 18, 2009, 10:57:55 pm
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I have some 61" osage staves. I have 29" draw. I have always heard to make your bows 2Xdraw+10%. So I try to make my osage 65".
What would be a safe design with these staves for me? I was thinking 1 3/4" at the fades going up 12" to midlimb and out to 3/8" on the tips would be a safe durable desing for a 61" bow.
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Big, osage can take about anything you can throw at it but I would seriously consider something with a little bend in the handle just to insure the longevity of your bows....Brian
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osage backed with sinew would be a good option for a shorter bow.
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I have some sinew. Actually alot. But never done it before.
So even if I make the limbs 1.75"-2" wide, 61" might be too short for a 29" - 29.5" draw?
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If tillered well it will take that long of a draw with out a backing no problem. I've made 58"ntn ridged handled recurved osage bows that are drawn to 29" all the time. I've made 50"ntn recurved semi-ridged handled bows that draw to 27" all the time. That rule was more intended for beingers I think, and as your tilering gets better you can get away with much shorter bow lengths.
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If it's good osage, should be no problem. I don't think you need to go 2" wide, 1 3/4" should be plenty.
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How about stacking, gentleman? What should he do to alleviate it? :) Jawge
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Thanks guys. Tillering is still something I have not mastered. I guess learning to sinew is in my future.
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I am with George on this one it will stack,I have stopped some of that by flipping the tips on a 56 in. Hickory but of course I ant pulling 29. :) I think it [might] hold but that is asking a lot. :)
Pappy
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I would make it bend through the handle and flip the tips up.
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Recurve's ! Stacking is the angle of the string reaching near 90 degree's. Recurving the tips alleviates that problem.
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Good ideas. :) Jawge
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I have several short osages about 52- 54" which have about 35- 44" and have a 26" draw. They have recurves and the stronger one has a setback of about 1"- no problem. I think short Osages should have thicker growthrings.
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Make it bend through the handle slightly and you can keep the limbs narrow thereby increasing the efficency of your bow. The bow will also be more durable and you don't have to worry about stack.
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I am not big on the hand shock of a bend thru the handle bow, but never shot a real short one either.
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For good osage, 1 /5/8" wide to mid limb is plenty. We made a bunch of 58" bows for 60# @ 28" in '06 and '07 for another magazine "challenge." It was a challenge, and really opened my eyes to what is possible w/ osage. All of mine where stiff handled. One I used deflex in the glue up and small recurves. Another was full compass tillered. Another more stiff on the outer limbs.
Based upon that experience, I reckon I made 4 or 5 of these, 61" would be fine for 29" draw. Some folks prefer recurves, or bendy handles, to combat finger pinch and string angle. I prefer stiff handled, straight limbed bows and have the bow bend mostly on the inner limb, leaving the outer 1/3rd or so stiff and narrow.
It's tricky when you push the envelope like this. You need good material, preferably without knots or features in the working area, good rings, moisture control, all the fundamental stuff. But if you've made a few bows and have sound technique it should not be a problem. Just take your time and let the wood guide you, like any other wood bow project.
Not discounting any of the suggestions already offered. In fact, I think the examples in the challenge revealed any number of designs could be effective.
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I was in on that challenge if you remember David. Learned a lot myself. The 58" design I used worked sightly through the handle with an elliptical tiller. Tips were slightly recurved also. bow would easily pull to 29" witout a hint of strain.
So that 61 " is more then doable. Here's a few suggestions: make your handle bulbous (this design allows for more bending over a rigid handle). Once I tillered out to 24" I sanded down the belly side of the bulbous handle until the bow lost 2#. This ensured a ever so slightly working handle. I just replaced the wood removal with leather and no one was the wiser. An elliptical tiller keeps the working portion of the limbs mid-limb. No handshock period. And recurve the tips for low stack.
ART B
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i made a 48'' Osage with slightly flipped tips. it pulled 55 at 27. and i loved it.
when i deployed to Iraq i left it up on the wall. and when i got back the sinew was pulling off..
I still have the bow i but 3 1/2 courses of sinew on it before i deployed here to Afghanistan and i cant wait to get back and finish it.. i know its a good shooting bow.
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I am not big on the hand shock of a bend thru the handle bow, but never shot a real short one either.
I guess I never noticed that with mine.
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1/2 primitive made a D bow for me for the Christmas Trade, 58" NTN, 28" draw, with flipped tips, 1 1/4" wide out of handle. I don't feel any hand shock when I shoot it. ;D ;D ;D
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If excess mass has been removed from the outer limbs and the tiller is correct you shouldn't notice any more handshock that with a rigid handled bow.
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I had a very narrow osage bow, 56", that Marvin Garrish won BOM with that was 55# at 28", that I pulled to 30'. It was unbacked, no set and the tips were flipped. It was very fast with FF string. It would bend slightly in the handle at full draw. That's when I knew," I was there".
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Any bendy handle bow will have a "sweet" spot where the archer places the most pressure of his bow hand. All else being in order, a bendy handle bow can be sweet shooter once setup for the archer with this in mind.
Yes, Art, I recall than you entered the ABC, and did well. Such bows are not really all that new and remarkable for older osage hands I don't think. I've only been in the game maybe 10 years but I recall similar bows being heralded before the White wood wars, perhaps '97-'98.
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Sorry to poach your post, but this seems like the best place to ask a similiar question ;) If I want to make the shortest possible bend through the handle 50-55# @ 28" that would last a long time what would be a good length? Sounds like 50 is no problem, but I want shorter for the back-pack. I've got the takedown sleeve already, but have since realized that at my height a 4 foot bow would barely be above my head when in my pack, if at all.
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Using a bendy handle design would allow you to use the shortest possible length for a given wood. But I don't know how you would get the handle to bend with a take-down sleeve.
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Sorry to poach your post, but this seems like the best place to ask a similiar question ;) If I want to make the shortest possible bend through the handle 50-55# @ 28" that would last a long time what would be a good length? Sounds like 50 is no problem, but I want shorter for the back-pack. I've got the takedown sleeve already, but have since realized that at my height a 4 foot bow would barely be above my head when in my pack, if at all.
You could learn to use 'indian' bows, then you could use a bow that's 36". ;D
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Yah, I think I'm going to make one of those short and wide sinew backed bows as soon as I convince myself that sinew backing isn't "too much work" :-\
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Any bendy handle bow will have a "sweet" spot where the archer places the most pressure of his bow hand. All else being in order, a bendy handle bow can be sweet shooter once setup for the archer with this in mind.
So are you saying that you actually adjust the tiller to be slightly stiffer where the hand pushes against the handle? I hadn't read anything referencing such a technique and have just started my first D bow so I'd really like to hear more about the "sweet spot" you mentioned :)
thanks, nick