Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Shooter_G22 on January 21, 2009, 11:13:49 pm
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ok guro's,
i need some knowledge on some glue... im about to glue on a handle riser sooo i can start this pecan board bow... the risere is also pecan and i have a thin strip of same pecan for a backing but not sur if i'm going to do the backing. yet...
but the only wood glue i have on hand is Gorila Wood Glue i bought it a while back when i didnt know any better... but i have noticed the tight bond glues and i was going to go ahead and pick up a meduim size bottle and i noticed the TB III is almost double the price of the TB II... ehy is this??????????? i was there at lowes looking at the two differant bottles of glue and then i noticed the price and then i did a membrain scan of my memorie and i started pulling up all these differant post of every body that has posted on here and all have used both TB II and some Have used TB III but i did notice that most that i remember in my quick membrian memory scane is that the TB II is probably the most popular on here... but then some of the well respected boywers on here have also used the TB III so here i am at lowes undecied whitch to buy so then i put em both back and decided i will aks the pro's and see what the real differance is and why double the price.... from what i could gather at reading the lables TB III says is the ultimate or something and its water proof and it looks to be a little darker in color and loks to be a bit thicker in texture...
soo what is the real differance??? and is it worth the double price.. and if soo then why is TB II still the most popular amongst the post's that get posted here???
just curoiuse, but would really like to knwo befor i buy... its really not that much money but i would really like to know anyway... becuae i did spend some mony on the gorilla glue and now it wont be used since i decided that i should use what i know is proven and TB II or III is the right way to go... just which one and why??? is still my blurred vision! lol...
thanks in advance... ;)
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Gorilla wood glue will work great and is very water resistant. Use it.... Justin
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l use tb3 on all my bows and have never had a problem. l'm not sure why it costs more than tb2 but tb3 is water proof and tb2 is not...so that might be why. Just buy a bottle and l'm sure you'll like it, just make sure you make grooves in the areas you intend to glue before you glue it up and let it dry for at least 48 hours. l know the directions say 24 hours but dont go by that. :)
Matt
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just make sure you make grooves in the areas you intend to glue before you glue it up
Matt
i thought tite bond glues needed a smooth surface to adhere properly,thats how i use it never had a problem
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Sailordad is right. Dont put grooves in with tb. it needs a smooth surface to perform its best. Epoxy works better with a grooved surface.
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I started out using tbII because of the price. Then I moved up to tbIII because it is waterproof. Both proved to be good glues for the purpose at hand. Someday when I have the extra money, and get of my lazy backside I'll probably order a can of Urac. I haven't heard any complaints about Urac, or TBIII, a couple about TBII, but they came by the train full for Smooth On. The TB glues are inexpensive, and for the amount of bows I make in a year, plus the cost factor. It suits me just fine for now. It can't hurt to try a few different things to see what you like. Clean up sure is easier with the TB glues.
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TBII is water resistant. The main difference between the two is that TBII has less open work time than TBIII.
Dale
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I started with 2 and went to 3 when it came out ,cause it is water proof.It is used on a smooth surface.I have never had any trouble with it.About the cost ,I never really paid much attention,but a bottle last me a long time.Like others have said you do have to work a little quicker if you are putting
on skins or rawhide. Never used it on a handle ,don't do many that need that.I leave the handle in a stave thick or make a bend through if there ant enough wood for a ridged handle.
Pappy
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I haven't had much experience with the Gorilla glue, but apparently Justin has and I'd trust his opinion if you want to use it up first...
As for the TB's, I used to use tbII and never had a problem with it. Used it mainly with inlayed tips, snake skins, and putting on grips, etc. I've switched to tbIII mostly due to the water proof quality. Like Pappy said, it sets up quicker and if using with snake skins you need to have your ducks in a row when using it. I prefer tbIII... :)
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One big difference between TB2 and TB3 is greater open time, aka the amount of time you have to mess around and align things, spread glue, etc. before you put the two things to glue together. One woodworker friend of mine said it was 10 min extra time for TB3 as compared to TB2. I'm not sure if that is the right length of time, but any extra time can be worth the extra cost of a bottle. Remember that atmospheric conditions can shorten the open time considerably. So doing a complicated glue up in hot, dry weather could result in a bad glue up with TB2 and with TB3's extra open time might turn out okay. This is really an extreme example. If you really need more time, then move to epoxy.
Back to Titebond, TB3 is supposed to be also better for gluing oily and other wise hard to glue woods such as osage orange or exotic woods like teak. So again this is a good reason to spend the extra money.
As for TB3 being waterproof, it's good insurance, but most bows are not subjected to the extreme that would make even TB2's weather-resistance start to be an issue. At the shop where I work, we make cutting boards glued up from scraps of hardwood lumber, we use TB1 which is not water proof, resistant, or any thing. These cutting board last for years of being rinsed and dried, it's the cycles that break down the glue bond. The ends do start to separate, but the rest of the length of the glue joint holds. The end-grain takes on more water anyway.
Most of us seal our bows with some finish, so water has to get through that layer first before it can get to the glue. If someone glues on a cloth backing with TB3 for example, then the glue itself could count as the finish. The best way to get around the extra cost is to borrow some TB3 from your neighbor or brother-in-law or someone else that you know. Tell them that you just need a little bit... ;)
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Greg, don't get confused between the regular gorilla glue and gorilla wood glue. Gorilla wood glue is a white water based glue with many of the same properties as TB 2. It even lets go at 150*F after it is dry. It has a ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance, where TB3 has a ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance.
Like orcbow said, the water resistance isn't a huge issue. I have submerged dried TB 2 and gorilla wood glue in water for a week and neither softened at all. Justin
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TB II or TB III would work fine.
But I prefer Urac.
Gorilla glue is not a good for backing, but it may be okay for a handle. Personally, I wouldn’t use it.
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I really like the strength and waterproofness of tb3. I have used it on everything, tip, backing, handles. Like GregB and orcbow said have your ducks in a row. Even though it says longer open time, it still sets up pretty quick so you need everything ready to go. I also smooth all surfaces but I've heared alot of guy groove surfaces. It's mega strong and hard to sand off so don't get it on the front of your backing if you can help it.
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I bought a gallon of the TBIII and never looked back! Good stuff! Use it for lams, tips, skins and just about everything that needs glue. Like its KNARLY DUDE!!! As the kids say these days. Young wipper snappers!!!
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TBIII has NEVER failed in any application I've used it for.
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OMG...did you say GNARLY? That is so ten yeas ago.
My eighth graders told me that the proper terminology is that it has SICK STICKING CAPABILITIES.
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Gorilla glue is not a good for backing, but it may be okay for a handle. Personally, I wouldn’t use it.
The expanding gorilla glue isn't, but the Gorilla Wood glue is. I have had great luck with it. Justin
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apparrently l dont know what l'm talking about. but l will keep doing what l've done in the past and keep making grooves for the glue to grab. because like l said before...l have never had a problem with it. :P ;D
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OMG...did you say GNARLY? That is so ten yeas ago.
My eighth graders told me that the proper terminology is that it has SICK STICKING CAPABILITIES.
All right! I'm getting OLD!!! Besides they change what they say every year. How is the older generations to keep up with it all?
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hey d.tiller...
its the older generations that came up with all the slang... these kids of today just copy what was once said by hearingthe older brothers or uncles talk about what they used to say with there friends and then they bring it back up... im 35 yrs old and saying something that something is sick... its like saying something is wick-ed... meaning... "bad" but bad not meaning bad but bad meaning good... "quote" Run DMC..
soo you see when i was younger we used the term "sick" "bad" "silly" "throughed" just depends whre you grew up and what niebohorhood you were from....
eirther way.... when your kool... anything you say is kool... 8)
back to subj!!!
i think im going to pick up a bottle of TB 3 and jsut get it over with... i dont mind the cost i was just curoiuse as to why it was more expensive and yet alot of the bowers here use the TB2 more often...
i still have the Gorilla Wood Glue and i'm sure i will use that on other building projects and or maybe some thing that will take less stress... i always have other wood working projects and i'm sur it will still get used up but i think for the purpose of this pecan i will use the TB-3 since i have not heard anybad comments on the TB3 and everybody says the have never found it to have a problem... ;D
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I'm 37!
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youngsters ;D
ive got scars older than both of you kids
we used to say, choice cherry awesome bitchin far out groovey dynomite whats happening
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Ah yep! He's.... OLDER!!!! >:D ;D ;D ;D
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ehhh what did ya say,ya need to speak up im having a hard time hearing ya at my age :D ;)
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We said Groovy. ;) ;D ;D Tiller you are still a kid. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy! You made my day! ;D
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I have been doing carpentry for many years and I found that TB11 works great for indoor projects but has a tendency to soften in humid conditions. I have used TB111 on outdoor projects and not had any problems. I have used TB111 for making reflex/deflex bows, gluing on backings, and gluing on handles. Only one time have I had any problems with it and that was when it was cold, it just didn't set right. Use only above the minimum temp specified on the bottle. I don't recommend using it on smooth woods. Smooth is a relevant term also. If the surface has been sanded make sure to get the saw dust off. I have seen planed smooth surfaces glued together that gave under stress. I use a toothing plane and have used a hacksaw blade before, I rough up the surface to about what 60 grit sand paper would leave it, just make sure you don't leave sawdust before you glue up. On hedge I usually wipe it down with lacquer thinner or alcohol first. I always glue both pieces and make sure I get full coverage on both, a putty knife works great for this. When you clamp up use only enough pressure to get the glue to ooze out all along the edge. Be careful not to squeeze all your glue out! As others have stated before I would let it cure for 48 hours. Also it is a lot easier to clean up squeeze out glue with a damp rag than it is to file it off after it has set up. Best of luck!
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went and got my first bottle of TB III today...!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yah...!
went ahead and glued up a handle on the pecan board bow im going to attempt... will let her sit for a few days and then get to working on it... in the meant time im going to be making a tiller stand and see about getting another baord out of the last rip form that pecan board... will probably start a new thread on the bows in progress sooo i can have all the pros walk me through it...
just soooo happy that i got the TB III i feel soo much better knowing that alot of the pros on here is useing this glue sooo it gives me a good feeling that its some thing i can use that works and i'm not having to substitute for something that i can use instead of the pro stuff.....
i feel good about the glue up and hope it works out... sooo easy to just walk in to lowes and pick a meduim size bottle and its under ten bucks and i know its works and i dont have to speacil order it and pay shipping and waite for it in the mail... just walked in and walked out took me under 10 minutes and under 10 bucks...
just tickled to be alive mang.... :D :D :D :D feels good... :D
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shooter not only do the pros on here use it
so do us rookies ;D
glad to hear your making a little more progress on that pecan board bow
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Sailordad,
i wouldnt call it progress but i got the courage to go ahead and try agian... see when i got the pecan board it was a ruff cut maybe some thing like 6-8" wide by 2" thick and 9-10' long... in the ruff... i took it to a wood mill shop and had them rip it for me... i tried serveral differant cuts and sizes and had a bucnh just break up and crack... and i got real fustrated and then i glued up a couple of blanks with some f/g sheet from auto repair inbetween the board and backing to help hold it togather... and backing still splintered and then i sanded backing down and reglued another backing and did all kinds of wierd stuff just to get one finised and i finally did... but i gave that one to my cousin... and he has it and loves it but will hardly ever shoot it... lol...
anyways since then i have treid several differant things like some osage staves that i have been triey to harvest and let dry for a couple of months and then try and work and have had those not turn out and soo i'm goin to go back to trying the pecan... but this time im going to try and do a tiller stand and long string and try and do it right... all the other i was just steping on the string and pulling the baord up towards me while bending over to look at tille upside down.... lol... kind of like a nucklehead...huh... :D :D :D
this time i'm going to try and see if i can do thngs right and take my time... probably wont get to much time to work on things.... i have to build a couple of other projects promissed to some other people ;) ;) and im probably going to be real busy at work since the boss just told me that he was going to be fire'ing a forman and i was going to have to run his job till its finished... :o... but that will be done about a wk and wk-end..
so it'l be hectic for me for a while and not to mention i do a little personal security for a couple of celebraties and they are supposed to be flying me to L.A. for the Grammy's but i dont know if i'm still going to do that..yet...
im supposed to be real busy on the personal security next month and i had already told my boss on my construction job... that i would be out for most of feb... they are real cool and let me get time off to do celebraty security... just because they think its cool... 8) aahh the advantages of working for your uncle...
sometime my life gets pretty hectic... and you could say i live a double lives and or even triple lives from jumping back and forth from construction worker to bodyguard to youth group coach... man it sometimes gets to me...
but keeping busy really helps the head-achs and nightmares... lol...
anyways i really got off topic here...
sorry folks... just got alot on my mind at times....
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I bought a big bottle of TBIII to save from spending bigger bucks on epoxy for backed bows. I've glued 2 bows(one ipe and one hickory), looks like I'll get a 3rd bow out of that bottle. Neither bows have failed. And it's pretty darn economical.