Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: youngbowyer on February 23, 2009, 05:08:33 pm
-
Hi,
Today the heads from hector cole have arrived but the sockets are quite shallow. The type 13 even fits one of my 5/16 shafts! Is this supposed to be like that? Here is a pic of the type 13 on a 5/16 shafts(i didnt glue it on)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
these are usually mounted flush to the exterior of the shaft. What's the exterior diameter of the socket at the base?
-
I'll give you the measurements tomorrow.
-
There's a few blacksmiths you can rely on to make arrow heads as exact as possible to surviving artefacts. Hector is one of them. In some periods, barelled shafts were used, so the socket will reflect that. Lloyd is correct, in saying the shaft comes flush with the OD of the socket. I use a pencil to guage the depth of the socket, then mark the shaft to that depth. A small pipe cutter from a hadware shop is useful for cutting the shoulder on the shaft. don't cut too deep as that will be where the shaft breaks.
-
thanks Triton! Hector cole snet me an email back too sayng the same thing that you did. Is it possible to cut the shoullder with just a very sharp knife?
-
yes, you can cut the shoulder with a sharp knife but in my experience it's hit or miss and sometimes quite literally bloody too. I use my arrow saw to cut several grooves in the shaft starting where the shoulder will be and moving towards the tip. I make the cut as deep as the interior diameter of the socket. Then you can use those grooves as a guide for sanding or rasping or whatever your preferred method of shaping the point taper on the shaft. It takes a while but I've found it to be the most reliable method for me.
-
Ya know I hope you don't mind, Youngbowyer my posting on this thread. But here is a question for any passer buy. In war times when these various types of point where used. How did they attach the points to the arrows?...... Was it with epoxy or did they merely just drive them on?
-
There was no epoxy glue so they must have used the glues of the time. I seem to rember reading that medieval glues were not up to much! I have also seen somewhere that some of the hunting heads of that period were pinned to the shaft through the socket. This was probably in addition to the use of glue?
Purbeck
-
Ya know I hope you don't mind, Youngbowyer my posting on this thread. But here is a question for any passer buy. In war times when these various types of point where used. How did they attach the points to the arrows?...... Was it with epoxy or did they merely just drive them on?
In war times they used beeswax so if u tried to pull the arrow out the head would stay in spreading infections. Hunters would use bluebell sap and they might have pinned it to the shaft. Although some people think a pinned shaft was used with a fire arrows to keep the glue from melting.
Hope this helps,cheers,
Tom.
-
It is probably worth discussing the type and size of shaft with Hector when ordering so that he can make an appropriate socket size.
Last time I spoke with Chris Boyton he mentioned that there was some evidence showing that the same mix that was used to coat the shaftment might have been used to fix heads.
Given the copper content of this mix it might have been unhealthy to be wounded even with a sterile point, before we even consider the fact that points werre not sterile and that shafts might have been stuck in the ground.
With the prevalence of dysentery on campaign and the use of night soil and animal manure in agriculture then the risk of infection seems great.
Rod.
-
given the materials of the time, I would say it's perfectly reasonable to use the same glue to fix the heads as used for the fletching.
-
It is probably worth discussing the type and size of shaft with Hector when ordering so that he can make an appropriate socket size.
Last time I spoke with Chris Boyton he mentioned that there was some evidence showing that the same mix that was used to coat the shaftment might have been used to fix heads.
Given the copper content of this mix it might have been unhealthy to be wounded even with a sterile point, before we even consider the fact that points werre not sterile and that shafts might have been stuck in the ground.
With the prevalence of dysentery on campaign and the use of night soil and animal manure in agriculture then the risk of infection seems great.
Rod.
There have been lots of documents saying that archers stuck their arrows in the ground making the risk of infection far greater.
-
The beeswax for arrow heads story keeps coming around but I've never seen any documentation. If anyone has documentation for using beeswax to affix heads please let me know where it is.
-
I think comes from an idea in connection with why arrows found are of different lengths, ranging from 28"-32". so different types/length of head can be fitted.
Personally I think it's also connected to the myth that arrows were a one-shot item.
-
The beeswax for arrow heads story keeps coming around but I've never seen any documentation. If anyone has documentation for using beeswax to affix heads please let me know where it is.
Another theory was that they used bluebell sap.
-
I think that war arrows at least have to be considered a one shot item. You will almost assuredly get a large percentage of the shafts back but you cannot depend on it. Hunting arrows may be another thing entirely.
I'm also leery about the comments regarding infection and dirty heads. We with our modern knowledge know that dirty heads will cause infection but germ theory is not known when the war bow is in use.
So while archers put their arrows in the ground I don't think the purpose was to increase the chances of infection, that's merely an unintended and unknown side effect. IMHO ;-)
-
;D I can imagine fletchers/arrowsmiths sitting around chewing bluebell bulbs.
Pine sap?
-
"A small pipe cutter from a hadware shop is useful for cutting the shoulder on the shaft."
Now why the heck didn't I think of that!?!?
Thanks,
John
-
Pitch extracted from birch bark, pine tar, or a combination of the two would have been available and common. It works very well to glue a point on. Asphaltum was probably available to a lesser extent.
-
"A small pipe cutter from a hadware shop is useful for cutting the shoulder on the shaft."
Now why the heck didn't I think of that!?!?
Thanks,
John
:D I said the same too, when I picked it up
-
They are believed to have used sealing wax rather than plain bees wax as more re recent traditional archers have. It can be melted with a little heat and dripped into the socket and the shaft end pushed in. Reheating makes it easy to adjust the point to be dead on. The head will stay on as long as the arrow doesn't hit some hard object. I think the bluebell glue was found on bronze age arrows only.