Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Arthur Herrmann on February 26, 2009, 10:58:55 pm
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I was thinking about how difficult it is to make good arrows out of dowel. I have a hard time getting dowels that have similar spine and weight. I read about this guy who only gets about 18 arrows from 100 dowel. That takes time, money, and energy that I do not have.
Does cane produce a more consistent spine and wieght? With cane you don't have to worry about the grain running off the wood to many times. If I could use a local kind of cane, if I was picky about size, I would like to get them in similar spine and weight.
Also, what is the truth with the people of the site and their arrows? Come on, I am not the only tempted by arrowwoods.com. $35 bucks for a dozen shafts within 5 pounds spine and 10 grains of each other, that is not a bad deal. All I am saying is that making dowel arrows is so difficult and discouraging to begginers that maybe buying shafts is not such a bad idea. I don't think I am the only one cheating.
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Cane is more forgiving arrow in relation to spine because of it's natural taper and quick recovery but they are time consuming to make. I enjoy my time making arrows from cane and hardwood shoots. The way I look at it is I have until next hunting season to get enough arrows made.
There is no problem with buying shafts if that is what you would prefer to do. There is going to be an amount of work with any shafting you use before you have arrows.
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only arrow shaft i have ever bought were carbon fiber
all others i either cut myself(red osier) or trade for cane.
never tried a dowl yet.
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Arthur
Buying matched shafts from a dealer is a much easier way to go. You will get really nice arrows from them with a fair amount of work. If you go to a cane shaft that you can get for free you save yourself some good money. But the amount of work is much greater. Also the spine and weight will vary quite a bit given the same diameter. But if you cut a bunch you will get some that match quite well. The cane will shoot better. But more importantly, you will probably get a much greater feeling of satisfaction from making the arrows with "natural" materials. I used to make all of my arrows from bought shafts, and I think it was a good way to learn. Now I am making them from shoots, and cane. I can't see going back to the bought shafts. It isn't nearly as much fun. The most important thing is to do what you enjoy.
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I just started making my doweling with a special taper tool. Works great! Also, try tapering the shafts from the midpoint back and make them around 3/8ths Wide and taper to 11/32". Should help reduce archers paradox.
I find when you make them yourself they always are better than store bought stuff! Plus its good for your soul and the pocket book!
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Last year I got interested in cane after shooting some from several guys during the Tn. Classic. I soon afterwards went out and cut my own and had a dozen or so finished prior to hunting season. I had a very successful year hunting with the cane, and really enjoyed and learned a lot about arrow making during the process. I can't see me going back to shafts now, although it is easier and quicker. I enjoy taking my time and making my own now. Like Rick said, there is a feeling of satisfaction hunting totally with equipment you made yourself. :)
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I shoot both matched shafting and cane. shafting for matched sets with a mininum of time (still home made arrows to be proud of) and and cane or bamboo just because I really like them but they are very time consuming and very hard to get a matched set that all shoot the same. Kenneth
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Think i will play the devils advocate here >:D Cane is the best shaft I have ever used, it may take a little longer to make an arrow
but the time spent is more than made up for in their durability. They don't break they might split but they will still shoot. Shoot a cedar, spruce, ash or what have you into a rock or a steel plate and the arrow is ruined, do the same with a cane shaft and the arrow lives to shoot again :)
As for making cane shafts, order yourself a bundle of 500 garden stakes and your set for many years, it don't take long to straighten a cane shaft and once straight they stay straight unlike wood shafts. If you don't sand the rind off you don't even have to seal them. So in my book cane shafts are faster to make than shoot shafts or wood shafts from splits. Store bought shafts are easy, cut to length, seal, fletch and shoot just don't hit anything hard ;)
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Think i will play the devils advocate here >:D
Boy that just came natural didn't it. ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Nothing wrong with buying matched shafts. I took the plunge a couple of years ago and started using multiflora rose shafts and now the bale of 500 tonkin shafts. I've also traded here for rivercane and really enjoy working it into a useable arrow. I still have lots of POC and other hardwood shafts that I shoot with various bows of different weight and spine. Find what works for you so you'll enjoy your time shooting them.
Tracy
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I dont think there is any cheating. Use what works for ya and makes you happy and what you have the time and want to do.
Rest of it has been said pretty well already in my book.
I like the look and toughness of cane. I do spine and weigh my shafts as I make them and I think it totally depends on where you gather them as to how close they will match. I tend to gather 25-30 in order to get a doz good matched shafts if I am lucky and picky. sometimes not that good. Now dont get me wrong all the shafts will shoot. and many here dont bother spining and matching cane. just when I shoot for distance or during a club competition weight changes things a lot. close in or for stump shooting who cares.
I have bought shafts and used em especially when pinched for time and arrows. and have no issue with going this route. dont think it is cheating. sometimes its the only thing keeping me shooting when I dont have the time to gather and make cane.
Use what ya like and makes ya happy and keeps ya shooting in my book.
but, dana is right.. I have bounced cane off brick walls in my basement and all that happened is that the cinderblock now has a nick in it.... HA..
later
wade
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Think i will play the devils advocate here >:D
Boy that just came natural didn't it. ;) ;D ;D ;D
;) :D
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I think everyone ought to go out and buy a wheelie bow and a bunch of carboaluminum something or others 2 or 3 thousand dollars worth of gadgets and dispose of your primitive stuff. Soooo send it all to me and I will see to it that it gets done properly. ;D 8)
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Cane. Is. The. Best. Arrow. Material. Out. There. Period. I wouldn't trade a dozen good cane shafted arrows for a hundred matched cedar shafted ones, and I'm entirely serious about that. Not too hard to make good arrow shafts once you get the hang of it. Nothing wrong with buying them, either, if that's what you like.
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This far into archery, my dowel arrows have performed poorly. Keep in mind I am a new shooter. Now, with bad form, no skills, and little cash- try and make good dowel arrows. They have done nothing but frustrate me. I may get one last order of matched set orders, but after that, I want the whole nine yards.
You guys are right, they look pretty sweet. Did someone suggest that I buy "garden stakes"? Where do i get a hold of them.
And also, how does the weight turn out? I am not currently hunting, so if they are light it is not a big deal to me.
Beaver Falls is just north of PA, am I correct in saying that we do not have river cane? I have found a relative that is super light and has a real pithy center. I don't think I could use the stuff for arrows.
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My hill cane arrows for this past year are 550gr to 650gr with stone heads. My hunting bows this past year were 47# and 48#@26".
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Arthur,I use 3 types of arrow shafts.In my humble opinion,cane is #1,hands down.#2 are shoot arrows,and #3 ,self- doweled shafts.Although a good number of these turn out very good(#3),the cane and shoots are so simple,and quick to build,I rarely get the router and drill out much anymore.God Bless
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Hillbilly is right. He made me a set of beauties for the Xmas trade, and shooting them was like being able to see after being blind.
I have a bunch of cane on order (live in New England, so harvesting is difficult :)), and doubt I will ever go back to wooden arrows, aside maybe from replicating historic arrows down the line. Shoots I have to try, but cane looks hard to beat.
Dane
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What does "better" mean? 8)
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Justin, to me better means weight is just where I like it, forgiving of minor spine variations, almost unbreakable (important if you're a lousy shot like I am), easy to straighten, stays straight, looks good, historically correct for my area, more water resistant than wood, and just shoots good, etc. etc.
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Aurthur - you probably have some invasive bamboo species up there somewhere that would make good arrows- I think I remember seeing a stand in that state park near you by Cranberry,PA maybe, about a decade ago (forget the name....Moraine, maybe?...but it has a big lake,& probably lotsa goose feathers during waterfowl season, also.)
Look up bamboo pics and keep an eye out - you might even have a neighbor with some that wouldn't mind you cutting some or try trading for some on here.
or, even easier, just to get started, try some "Garden stake" arrows - that thread is on here from a few days ago, and I'm taking the kids on a "mission" to find some right now - probably see them in your stores up there in a few weeks ;D
Good luck
Postman