Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: part Cherokee on April 14, 2009, 08:32:47 am
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Hey,
My name is Matt and ive been hanging around for a while now and i decided to join up.
Some of you may no me from tradgang as sirrobin77. Hey Pat!
What im wondering is was the 2 fletch a real standard for the Cherokee? The Bowers Boble Vol 2
says that the 3 fletch was standard for the Cherokee and the 2 fletch was used only in emergencies or for kid arrows.
Is this true? Anyone have insight on this?
Matt
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Welcome to PA. Matt. Looking forward to some answers here too. ;)
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From what I've seen, absolutely yes. I live only a few miles from the Eastern Cherokee rez, and they still use it to this day. Almost every example of an old original Cherokee arrow that I've seen in museums or photos is two-fletched. There are a couple of standard-fletched ones, and a few three-feather radial fletches, but the two-fletch seemed to be by far the standard with the Cherokee, as well as many of the other Eastern tribes. I saw that in Al Herrin's chapter, also, and wondered how he could make a statement like that, because it's very inaccurate. Then I realized that he had probably never seen or heard of the traditional fletching style of his tribe. What he was calling a two-feather fletch was completely different from the traditional Eastern Woodlands style. A lot of traditional knowledge was lost with the death of so many elders on the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma, and also there was a lot of homoginization that probably took place over the years after the Cherokee people were forced to live in an unfamiliar area in close proximity to several other tribes who were in the same situation; so much knowledge like this probably didn't survive in the western part of the tribe. Relocation of the Eastern tribes was one of worst chapters in American history, IMO. The Cherokee that stayed here in the Smokies of western NC were mostly the hard-core traditional element of the tribe that refused to be relocated, so they hid out in the mountains and starved rather than be forced from their homeland. Their descendants still remember a lot of the old ways, including the two-feather fletch.
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Do you have a pic of a TRADITIONAL Cherokee 2 fletch?
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I don't have a pic of an old Cherokee arrow at the moment, but here's my take on the Eastern Woodlands two-fletch. It varied a bit from person to person then just like our fletchings do now, but the basic things that are consistant is the partially-split feathers and some helical twist. This style of fletching flies great. It's simple, but ingenious the way it's designed.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Do you have any close ups?
Is the big feather split or is it whole and just tied on front and rear? Is the small feather tied at the rear or just the front?
Sorry i just want to get it right.
Matt
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Nice arrows Hillbilly , really nice. Kenneth
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I am part Cherokee on my mothers side and I was pretty disapointed with that chapter where that guy talk down on a fletch designe that served our people for thousands of years but I am sure he ment no harm. I will have to read that section again but I think he may have been talking about just the two regular feather fletch because he said they dont spin and this styl dose unless he did not know. But even then regular two fletch does the job. This is the only type of fletch I use.
part cherokee,
I am not exactly sure what your questions are. Like Hillbilly said there are many differnet variations usng all different sizes of feathers. I make mine by splitting up the quill about 3/4 and then leaving the rest full. I tie them on inverted on the back and then after the sinue dries I fold the feathers forward and tie down the front. The back gets tied down on either sides of the nock and the front gets tied down in line with the nock. I use turkey tail and wing feathers for this. I found that the tail feathers are less durable because the split runs up further more easy but the wing feathers dont split easy. A good tip is to use the very end of the feather where the quill is thinnest and tie that part to the shaft because you dont split it so it is a full size quill.
It is hard to describe in words. This stly was used all over the eastern united states and it seems to have been more common than the 3 fletch.
Here are some pictures.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/oaon5s.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/auvy3p.jpg)
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I have never tried two fletch.. do they windplane? or do the extra pieces of feather stabilize the shaft?
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Mike, if they're put on right they don't plane. I've never tried shooting them long range in a haevy crosswind, but for the shooting I've done they fly just as good as any other. Most of the tribes that used these also knew of what we would call "normal" fletching, but used this style instead.
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I will have to give some a try.. thanks for the info.. Hawk
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I have shot them as far as I can with my 35 pound bow wich is about 80 paces and they are pretty stable even with no point wich makes them back heavy. I have never had any planing like I have had with some regular two flech stlys. They do spin alot.
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yeah ive used regular two fletch style tied or glued on like you would 3 fletch, flys pretty good at 15 yards get out there further and it might not fly so straight
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Very nice arrows. i mainly use the 2 fletch now. I find they fly very well. No planing at all. They are quicker to asemble and they look real cool.
TJ
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Hey
Thanks a lot guys!!! BIG BIG HELP!!!
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Part Cherokee,
I examined a few original Cherokee arrows in the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. a little over a year ago. The shafts were mostly split hickory, about 33- 35 inches long. Two of the arrows were made from shoots that had a pith in them...I'm assuming they were sourwood. But ALL the arrows had the Cherokee style two-feather type of fletching that several people have posted pics of. Also, the feathers appeared to have been put on with a twist to help them spin in flight. But the fletching was in rather poor shape, and some didn't have any feathers at all. They were all secured with sinew. The feathers were cropped quite low and were lower profile than the ones people have posted pictures of, but they are basically the same except for feather height. The fletching was wild turkey wing feathers and the arrows came from Cherokee, North Carolina, though there were no dates on the arrows that indicated when they were collected. Hope that helps!
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Nice arrows and info everyone. I've wondered why Al Herrin said that in TTB as well. I think Steve answered my question there. I'll add a pic of one of my two fletch arrows for the heck of it. This one is wild turkey tail feathers. I think they work great and are easy and quick to do once you get the hang of it.
Alan
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh286/AlanShook/100_2335.jpg)
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One more question brothers, with these type of feathes, has anyone had problems with the feathers hanging up in brushy shot situations? looks like the helicle would grab or catch limbs if the feathers weren't glued down.. I am not being critical of an age old design, just plan on building some for hunting and am particular about my arrows ::) ;) thanks .. Hawk
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Mike, I've never considered that situation but I could see where it could happen. The arrow I got from Art with the 2 fletch is wrapped the full length of the feathers. On my last 2 fletch arrows(hybrid design) I use a bit of fletch tape in the center of the feathers to hold the feathers to the shaft along with the wrap, forward and aft. It eliminated any noise when shot also.
With 90deg of helical or twist to the 2 fletch, the arrow spins thus helping to eliminate any wind planing.
These are 3 of my last season hunting arrows. Two Cherokee style 2 fletch(my version) and one of my hybrid 2 fletch. And the next pic is Art's version of the Cherokee 2 fletch.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I really like the primitive look and simplicity of the arrows..they would be great for wingshooting. easy to make and less feathers to lose ;D ;) Hawk
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PatB, it looks like your arrows are fletched with the back side of the feathers on the outside. Is that the case or is it just the picture. It seem it would make sense doing it that way to maintain the same twist while being able to use both wings. Such left wings front side of the feather and right wings back side of the feathers out and the arrow would spin the same direction. Is this anywhere near correct?
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Yes, The back side of the feather is out. I think you get a better fletching with the feathers set that way. It may also depend on the feather you are using, whether it be primary flight feathers, secondary wing feathers or tail feathers but for me, they work best inside out....and they all work for this type of fletching.
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Hedgeapple, the main reason I always put the dull side out with this type of fletching is because of the direction of curvature on the feather. If you put the shiny side out, the feather curves away from the shaft and leaves space between the shaft and feather. I'm now working on an article for PA about this style of fletching.
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Hey guys thank you so much guys. This has been a question in my mind for a while.
This sight rules!!!
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Thanks Hillbilly and PatB
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The arrows I saw in the smithsonian had the dull side of the feather toward the inside (or toward each other). The top of the feather (which was the more distinct color) was toward the outside, but I guess the proof is in the pudding. Hell, it doesn't matter if you put the feathers on backwards and upside down...if the arrow flies straight, that's all that matters!!
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Wow, guys this is great information. My wife is about 80% Cherokee and I have been interested in the culture for years. I have a basket quiver and two 2 feather fletched cane arrows I bought on the Reservation in North Carolina. I have just become interested in primitive archery and those 2 arrows are calling me. I told my wife I intended to research the fleching and try my first arrow making using this technique. I am very excited to try it now! By the way, I have not been there in several years, but the museum in Cherokee, NC is fabulous and I think they have upgraded it just recently. I now can't wait to return.
Chasing Crow
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As far as feathers go, I have had problems using 2 different feathers. By mistake I put a right and left wing secondary on the same shaft. The arrow flew like crap if it was put on the string one way, but if you flipped it over it flew good when put on the string the other way. I was tring to put 2 different colored feathers on so it would look better and messed the whole thing up. 1 of the feathers was stronger than the other, and it wind plained bad.
TJ
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One thing I have noticed is if you use two secondary feathers, Whether turned dull side in or reverse them so they lay down, when you add a stone point with some weight forward it fly's like a dart. I still mount the full secondaries with a slight twist.