Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: Easternarcher on June 09, 2009, 09:33:12 pm
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need some critique and advice as to how to get the flakes to run farther than maybe 1/4" along the face.
Again, these are just practice pieces. the long narrow one started out at least 3 times that wide! ::) I know I'm supposed to push down into the piece and kinda at an angle right, but it's difficult to get I find. And I'm realizing that I'm not abraiding nearly enough. I find I'm feeling for the platform to set the flaker.
Any advise is welcome. P.S. no blood was spilled in the making of these points! :P Gloves rule!
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/FLINTKNAPPING%202009-06-08/IMG_1307.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/FLINTKNAPPING%202009-06-08/IMG_1314.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/FLINTKNAPPING%202009-06-08/IMG_1313.jpg)
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Yer havin fun now ;). Your pushing the flakes straight down instead of inward and down. With glass, lightly abrade the edge just enough to dull up all the platforms along that edge. Then put the tip of your nice sharp pointy flaker on the delta's below center line along that edge and pop em off. Clear as mud huh ;D. With pad in hand and glass on pad, hold the piece where you can look down and see the edge. Put flaker on platform, push straight into piece and at the same time rotate the piece down and squeeze together with your legs - Pop.
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yup exactly like cowboy said,ive only been doing this 5 months now,and when i remember to do that
nice inch long flakes,all i have realy used so far has been obsidion.that technique works beautifully
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Yer havin fun now ;). Your pushing the flakes straight down instead of inward and down. With glass, lightly abrade the edge just enough to dull up all the platforms along that edge. Then put the tip of your nice sharp pointy flaker on the delta's below center line along that edge and pop em off. Clear as mud huh ;D. With pad in hand and glass on pad, hold the piece where you can look down and see the edge. Put flaker on platform, push straight into piece and at the same time rotate the piece down and squeeze together with your legs - Pop.
Well, Cowboy, I kinda understand, and I think I was trying for that procedure but it wasn't working' for me....actually I likely had my platforms way too high, maybe even above center.(No, No that wasn't it) I was just not pushing into the glass enough. I've been setting the flaker on the top edge of the platforms....it that right or should I be right on the edge pushing into center??
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Your platforms should be below center. Then depending on how much you've abraded your flaker can make contact even lower than that. Keep the point of your flaker nice and sharp and apply the pressure right on the very edge - then pop it like I explained earlier. Play with that for awhile and show us the results - practice makes perfect, and so does tonnage ;).
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Cowboy, by "Deltas" I assume you mean the protruding pointier areas sticking out from imaginary true edge? Not the concave valleys right???
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Deltas look like a V place the tip of the flaker at the bottom of the V
Generally with glass you have a square or angled edge to start with so there won't be much in the way of platforms. You
need to zigzag the edge first, don't try for long flakes on the first pass, get the edge zig zagged, then abrade well and using the platforms below the
centerline push long thinning flakes
Here's a link to a tutorial that will help you out. :)
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/4009
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Yes that's right. The protruding parts are the delta's.
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Have you seen the cone shape of a glass window when a BB hits it? The shock waves go out from the point of impact at an angle. When you flake an abraded delta the length of the flake depends upon the techniques cowboy and Dana explained and the angle you at which you apply the pressure. You might try just making flakes and not worrying about a point until you can send a flake for some distance. Good luck! Joe
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Have you seen the cone shape of a glass window when a BB hits it? The shock waves go out from the point of impact at an angle. When you flake an abraded delta the length of the flake depends upon the techniques cowboy and Dana explained and the angle you at which you apply the pressure. You might try just making flakes and not worrying about a point until you can send a flake for some distance. Good luck! Joe
YEah, Thanks Joe....I guess I had the angle all wrong. Lots of work to do....It'll come cuz I don't give up easily!
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You'll move ahead fast flaking glass. Pushing into the piece is part of it, but glass is so brittle you need a good platform. Are you working from a square edge or a zigzagged edge? I have also learned (in 11 months) to clear previous flakes. What's the chance, one long flake could catch the butt of another, and drive it 5/8"ths into a hand? Good enough for me one time so far-you've been warned. Keep posting pics you'll get longer flakes as you go. Don't let them be weapons against the knapper! PD
(http://www.fototime.com/6F6AB0D3D66547A/standard.jpg)
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Thanks Pete......warning heeded.
Well I had a 1/2 hour tonite so I broke a beer bottle just to try the advice already given here. No point made, but I discovered that I COULD get longer flakes "by doggie"! I'd say 1/2 - 5/8" long....Since I was reducing this bottle bottom to crumbs anyway, I found I could completely remove the finish and had a surface completely covered by scars! I was so pleased and all I was working on was pushing into the center of the platform and popping the flake as cowboy says......
Well, I need a larger flatter bottom since these bottles were abit too concave for a newbie like me.
LAter.
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Man Pete, your doing some beautiful work! And after only eleven months - jeeze ;). Good deal Easternarcher! as already mentioned you should just practice on popping flakes from the edge, seeing how far you can make em travel without worrying about a point - thier's lot's of glass out there. Keep us posted.
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A little more advice; every time you run a set a flakes, stop and abrade off the new edge and abrade the side to set up new platforms.
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i ate the rest of my pickles and got the urge to go try it. made 3 out of the jar bottom. wernt bad for my first try. they might work for rabits or something but they are far from perfect.
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A little more advice; every time you run a set a flakes, stop and abrade off the new edge and abrade the side to set up new platforms.
Yup, I remembered to do that more often. MAybe not enough still but I'll remember next time.
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A little more advice; every time you run a set a flakes, stop and abrade off the new edge and abrade the side to set up new platforms.
wait, im new to. what the heck dose that mean?
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There you go, Easternarcher, explain to recurve what we mean and you are on your way to understanding more, Grasshopper. ;)
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A little more advice; every time you run a set a flakes, stop and abrade off the new edge and abrade the side to set up new platforms.
wait, im new to. what the heck dose that mean?
To abrade means to rough up the surface a bit and take off the sharp edge along the edge of the delta where you set your flaker to take off the next flake. It gives the flaker tip a place to take a grip. There are several ways of doing that. Most use different coarseness of stone depending on how agressive they need to get with that edge. I've seen it done with the square edge of the copper flaker tip as well. I've done both, but get best results with an abrading stone.
To Mullet: :)Did I do good Master? :)
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;D ;D ;D,Sounds good to me. If you understand it and can explain it, you can do it. With practice. ;)
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i do believe you are getting closer to snatching the pebble from his hand
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D get plenty of band aids and super glue, the journey is just starting. ;)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D get plenty of band aids and super glue, the journey is just starting. ;)
Yup! One question tho....how do I get the concave side of a bottle bottom to even out and match(sorta) the convex side of the piece? Seems I would have to take off more from the underside than the top correct? Since the invisible centerline is closer to the top than bottom? MAybe I'll look for more flatter bottoms - jars and bottles that is...... ::) ;)
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Take your abrader and abrade and grind the lip till it is even and then grind at an angle on the flat side( the non-concave) to set up your flakes and platforms.
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Take your abrader and abrade and grind the lip till it is even and then grind at an angle on the flat side( the non-concave) to set up your flakes and platforms.
OK, I think I got it.but what do you mean by"even"? I assume that you gotta flake alot from the convex to the concave side to bring that line up if you know what I mean ..I'll review this when it comes time to try....maybe this weekend.
BTW, thanks guys...I resisted the tempation to knapp a long time, but I had to try it....One more ancient skill I wanted to learn.
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When you snatch that pebble be careful. It has some sharp edges...... ;D Eddie likes to switch the pebble with a nice sharp piece of obsidian. He really finds fun in just about anything...... ;D I made some points yesterday, and had some really nice long barbs on them. Uh, the key word there is "had" I just can't seem to keep from breaking one side off! I have quite a collection of em. I guess I could say that I meant to do that, and call them Fish Points...... ;D
I need to learn how to make those nice " Punched " out notches. ;) Well you should have not given in to the temptation to knapp! Now you are in league the rest of of us addicts. I still can't seem to get long flakes consistently, but then again, I am using a variety of material. Of course, I am still a newbie, but I am making some forward movement. Especially when I cut the snot out of myself. ;D I've even learned to make up new cuss words, when I run out of the usual ones. Keep at it, you have some very talented people here that are more than willing help you advance. I have Eddie as my pusher. Unfortunately he lives about three hours away. I need to get back over there and get a refresher course, and learn how to make those nifty little notches, and thinning, and percussion knapping. Yeah I still have a long ways to go. It is frustrating at times. Especially when you see these guys on here and the amazing points, and blades they make. You will start looking differently rocks, and find yourself wondering if there is a point of some kind in there. Enjoy your addiction, and don't bother trying to give it up. It's got ya! 8)
Wayne
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k. gotcha. thanks for the info. and about the concave-ed-ness (new word ;D) of the glass, use mikes hard lemonade and smirnoff bottle bottome. they are a little closer to flat.
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Go get yourself some obsidian from a pet/fish store where they sell it for decorative aquarium rock. It will behave similar to glass and will teach you skills necessary when dealing with natural rock. If you can handle bottle glass, you can deal with obsidian. All the rules with abrading platforms and pushing flakes toward the middle of the piece apply. Keep that super glue and those band-aids handy. Good luck on your journey.
Jim
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Go get yourself some obsidian from a pet/fish store where they sell it for decorative aquarium rock. It will behave similar to glass and will teach you skills necessary when dealing with natural rock. If you can handle bottle glass, you can deal with obsidian. All the rules with abrading platforms and pushing flakes toward the middle of the piece apply. Keep that super glue and those band-aids handy. Good luck on your journey.
Jim
Thanks Jim. I never thought of rocks for aquariums! Great Idea!!!