Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: cowboy on June 12, 2009, 08:50:07 pm
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I heard somewhere that limestone makes flint. I'm not so sure about that but it does form in limestone somehow. I found this cave in Georgetown - lot's of caves in this limestone country. Anyway had to check it out and sure enough there is a lot of flint in there - tabs and veins. But really none of it is worth the effort it would take to dig it out - really grainy and rough, maybe with a little heat - dunno. I did kick that one tab in the wall and a pretty good amount of rock and dirt fell out from above it. I got to looking around and above my head and decided not to kick any more of em ;D.
I thought this was interesting and ya'll would like to see it.
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few more.
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Cool pictures, Paul. When I lived in Colo., I was caving every weekend. There was over 150 mapped caves in Garfield County.
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Very cool.
That's neat, because a friend and I were just talking, I live on the Martinsburg shales, over the Edinburg limestones(Va). There are uselses, blocky cherts mixed in with the limestones, but my friend is a caver, and he said they see big tabs of flint in the caves in the Edinburg. It's probably silicous replacement in solution layers in the limestones. Glass forming skeletal critters such as diatoms and sponges versus the calcarous forams and other shell-formers. I wish we had flint we could knap in Virginia. I am jealous of you Texans!
PD
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Cool pictures Paul. I don't speak that language Pete, ;D but I live in cave country myself.
We have Mammoth Cave national park about 30 miles away and literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of caves in this area. As close as I live, and as many times as I've toured some of those caves in the park, I'm still amazed at some of the things you'll see in them.
I've been lots of smaller caves around my house and never noticed any chert, but I'll start looking now.
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That's really neat Paul. I think I'd woulda been scared to go in there though! :o
Alan
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Only caves I've been in in CO were gold mines Ed, I didn't know there were real ones ;D. Come again Pete? I hear ya, just don't know the terminology. I do know that limestone is formed from sediment from shallow seas - well, I've seen that on the discovery channel anyway. Shannon, that mammoth cave is a biggun - went there on my day off from Ft. Knox during boot.
I wasn't scared Alan, was actually hoping to see a rattlesnake - need one more coon tail. Those cave cricket's sure were excited though, looked like they were painted on the cieling and if ya breath on em they go everywhere, including down the back of your shirt :D.
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Guys-
I'm not a geologist, but any knapper needs to know where flint comes from sooner or later....
Flint forms in limestones when the micro skeletons of tiny sponges get concentrated in the limestones. Sponge skeletons are made from silica, or the same as glass. Limestones themselves are just accretions of other micro skeletons composed of calcium carbonate (tums). Different critters make different skeletons. But that's why we find fossils in flint. Here's a pic of some micro skeletons of sea sponges, they were extracted from English flint, from chalk beds. Again, flint and lime, found together. Just like in Virginia and Texas.
(http://www.ukfossils.co.uk/images/guides/microfossils1.jpg)
He's a link to the story of same:
http://www.ukfossils.co.uk/guides/microfossils%20from%20flint.html (http://www.ukfossils.co.uk/guides/microfossils%20from%20flint.html)
These cats are getting their fossils from flint meal-we call it "concrete."
(http://www.ukfossils.co.uk/images/guides/Split%20flints%20containing%20flint%20meal.JPG)
Flint is cool stuff!
PD
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You will really be hard pressed to find True Flint in the US. Mostly what you find is Chert to a high grade chert.The chert in the limestone formations here have too much fine silica, except in very few isolated areas.
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thats great paul..that flint has been there for thousands of years...or when i go dig rock at glass buttes thats the way i look at it....never been touched by human hands...thats pritty cool the way its formed in there.john
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That's cool Pete, you really know your stuff! I've heard that the only true flint is in Europe and that Georgetown is the closest we have to that. Is it Denmark? Anyway I'd like to get my hands on some.
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That's what I was thinking blacktail. Been there for eons - who knows how old this old rock is ::)?
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i know of a rock shop nearby that english flint,and polish chocolate flint
its a ltlle on the $$ side for me,especially since i cant seem to spall worth a damn
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That's cool Pete, you really know your stuff! I've heard that the only true flint is in Europe and that Georgetown is the closest we have to that. Is it Denmark? Anyway I'd like to get my hands on some.
You can get some true English flint from Eric Morris (Eric's rocks) for less than $2 per pound. It is not as high-grade as some of the Danish flint, but several pieces I bought from Eric have been turned into nice points. I think he also sells some of it heat treated.
Jim
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Craig Ratzat bought a couple barges of English, it's good stuff, he's got it for sale
www.neolithcs.com
That Texas flint I think is Cretaceous, 60 million B.P., that's really pretty recent compared to Virginia cherts which are Ordovician, 425 million B.P. The Virginia stuff has been around so long, it has cracks from being folded, faulted and generally weathered and deformed. There is some flint in nearby WVa, the Lewisburg flint, that looks uncannily like georgetown but spalls are waaay smaller. It works pretty well.
One of these days I'll bring the truck to Texas and load up! Paul sent me some a few months ago, thank you Paul you are the man and yes, I will send a package your way of candy rock soon.
We are headed over to WVa today, Alterra Knap-In, local quartzites, the old purple stuff (Rose Hill). Jack Cresson's coming. Here's a flower I made from it last week on my cistern. It's murder to knap! They made big Savannah River blades from it-beautiful stuff. Dogwood billets are the tool of choice with the purple rock. I can't knap it (yet). PD
(http://www.fototime.com/73497254830F08E/standard.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/42AE5DB23479B24/standard.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/222A064C9D42C0E/standard.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/800D0C51F7F5079/standard.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/9486A0B38868F43/standard.jpg)
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"Splunker Paul" ;D ;D Kinda got a nice ring to it?
Used to do that kind of stuff when I was a kid. Never found anything but opossum bones. Ha ,Mo. is know for it's caves also.....Lots of them around. I have one found that I was planning a dig in sometime. Just haven't got up the gumption to do it yet.Much work.
Cool pics there Cowboy,glad to see you had a rope with ya.
Also really neat pics and imfo there Pete. Thanks for sharing that.
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One of the young guys I work with(landscape) is a caver. He, and his team, have mapped many miles of uncharted caves in Tenn. He was telling me about a "room" he was in last weekend that had giant muscles fossils and large chunks of coral. When I asked him about a few samples he said they were not allowed to haul stuff out plus it wouldn't be practical or safe to haul samples out a mile or 2 from down in the cave. He did give me a chunk(softball size) he recovered from a stream at the mouth of the cave that has blue streaks in it. He has promised me more when he can get it. I'll have this stuff at the camp-o-rama for you guys to play with.
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Art in stone there Pete - that is nice. Yep, went splunkin Tim ;D - just cause I had to. Think it's in my genes - I must explore 8). Wish I could make that camp-o-rama Pat, I know it's fun - rain or no rain ::).
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Cool pics Paul, best to bring a friend when ya go caving though, remember safety first eh ;)
Precambrium rocks on the estern side of the UP and where its Lake Michigan dolomite :'( Nothing that really knaps
although I have a line on some Jasper, need to take a road trip up to El D's home town