Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: luke the drifter on June 29, 2009, 11:34:23 pm
-
are horn nocks necessary as opposed to self nocks(no horn nocks)? why would one use side nocks?
-
Horn nocks are just to protect the bow tips from damage
I have seen bows over 150lb which are self nocked no problem although these were not yew (which I understand is not as tough as many woods?)
sidenocks are what were used on longbows until recently so the question really should be why not use them?
see www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm
-
Horn nocks were used because the string would cut into the yew sapwood which was quite soft but on most other woods you wouldn't need them.
-
Horn nocks (or any other hard material nocks) are totally necessary on yew bows, especially heavy weight bows. Yew is soft... you can easily dent it with your fingernail. On laminate longbows, they are not necessary, but can be used for aesthetic purposes.
-
are horn nocks necessary as opposed to self nocks(no horn nocks)? why would one use side nocks?
Self nocks were used on yew bows at least since the Roman period for thousands of years before horn nocks came into style. As far as I know, none of the bows from those periods show any damage at the nock. I never had a problem but of course my bows are not warbow strength. Even so I find it hard to imagine a reinforced served string loop producing any more than a slight burnishing effect on any bow. Side nocks would be used because they can hold a string with the least damage to the slender and extended bow tips in style in mediaeval and Tudor times
-
String material would have some effects on this topic. If I'm not mistaken linen or other plant fiber strings were used with the original war bows. These strings would large diameter and more surface area on the nock(softer). Most modern war bows are strung with fastflight or other minimal stretch, synthetic strings(harder). These have smaller diameter and less surface area so more wear. On wood like yew, especially, the protection of horn(or other suitable material) nocks would be a necessity with modern strings. IMO
Also, were the horn nocks on the war bows as ornate as the modern horn nocks? ...or is the ornate horn nock a Victorian target bow hold over?
-
String material would have some effects on this topic. If I'm not mistaken linen or other plant fiber strings were used with the original war bows. These strings would large diameter and more surface area on the nock(softer). Most modern war bows are strung with fastflight or other minimal stretch, synthetic strings(harder). These have smaller diameter and less surface area so more wear. On wood like yew, especially, the protection of horn(or other suitable material) nocks would be a necessity with modern strings. IMO
Also, were the horn nocks on the war bows as ornate as the modern horn nocks? ...or is the ornate horn nock a Victorian target bow hold over?
That's right. A 1/8" thick string with an extra 30 % loop reinforcement and additionally served like the grip area poses no threat to the nock, unlike a string made from a piano wire.' Lartdarcherie' says about horn nocks; "the shorter the better, as long as the bow can be strung", and that fits pretty well with the Mary Rose nock. I'm not sure when the ornate ones came in. A 16th century picture seems to show one similar to the Victorian ones but I doubt that any war bows would have had them.
-
Horn nocks (or any other hard material nocks) are totally necessary on yew bows, especially heavy weight bows. Yew is soft... you can easily dent it with your fingernail. On laminate longbows, they are not necessary, but can be used for aesthetic purposes.
Hey adb can you use overlays or would the sapwood just peel off, do you need to have something that encompasses the entire end of the tip.
-
Horn nocks (or any other hard material nocks) are totally necessary on yew bows, especially heavy weight bows. Yew is soft... you can easily dent it with your fingernail. On laminate longbows, they are not necessary, but can be used for aesthetic purposes.
Hey adb can you use overlays or would the sapwood just peel off, do you need to have something that encompasses the entire end of the tip.
No, overlays are totally fine. I actually prefer them. I think they're easier than making a traditional horn nock.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Man those look nice, I hope I can get mine to look that good.
-
Also, were the horn nocks on the war bows as ornate as the modern horn nocks? ...or is the ornate horn nock a Victorian target bow hold over?
By and large a sporting bow-makers trade-mark, Pat.
-
Rod, I can see how the nocks would identify the maker. I've seen some pics of interesting horn nocks that were quite individual. I've made a few sets because they were appropriate for the bow but they are a pain to make and fit. Overlays are so much easier. ;D adb's overlays are a hybrid because they resemble horn nocks. They flow with the end of the bow like horn nocks do.
-
Pat,
The most basic form is very close to a minimally worked natural cow horn tip and flush fitting is much easier to string in a heavy bow.
Some of these shifts to find an "easier" way of aping the appearance of the proper horn nock can be quite elegant and you can often get away with it in a light bow, but I would not recommend it just because it is "easier".
With modern glues we can probably get away with stuff that would be a hazard to the archer in the real article.
The fact that these are seen as "easy" solutions is in itself comment enough.
Rod.
-
I built all my ELBīs with horn nocks.
For my replicas of the Mary Rose bows I used bowstrings from hemp.
Hemp is a rough material and acts like a saw.
Fast Flight makes the same problems on yew.
Without horn nock all my ELBīs while frayed.
Bernhard
PS:I hope my grammar is not completely wrong
-
It looks good and finishes the bow off ...... ::)
-
I built all my ELBīs with horn nocks.
For my replicas of the Mary Rose bows I used bowstrings from hemp.
What draw weight are your bows which use hemp string?
are they sidenocks on your Mary Rose replicas?
I have had a half hearted try at using linen strings but I was unable to find any of good enough qualty (my string aking skills are not very good either)
-
The draw weight are 90 - 135 lbs.
I buy the hemp in Hungary, I think the had the best quality for heavy draw weight.
I had make 3 bows with sidenocks but I was always terrified that the string could slip. This is never happened but the concern is existent.
Bernhard
-
Excellent :-)
Do you use a loop on the sidenocks (or a noose of some kind) ?
if you have some photos, info, comments etc. I would be very happy to include any info you have on my sidenock page (www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm)
as it would be great to see hemp string on a sidenock on a 135lb bow
-
I'm not sure if my method of sidenocks is authentic. All my information comes from museum visits and the Internet.
At my next bow I build sidenocks with a hemp string and make pictures.
Bernhard
-
I'm not sure if my method of sidenocks is authentic. All my information comes from museum visits and the Internet.
At my next bow I build sidenocks with a hemp string and make pictures.
There are very few of us using them and very little solid info to go on so we need to pool all the info. we have to try and learn all we can about them (this is why I created the sidenock web page)
btw - the picture on my web page of the nock (http://www.alanesq.com/longbow/sidenock/diagram.jpg) is direct from the Mary Rose trust and it took me a good while to manage to get hold of it - this is the official archaeological diagram of the recovered nock and so it should be very accurate
BTW - Sorry, I am taking the thread off subject
-
To be honest Alan, some of those strings look too slackly made, more like a common commercial laid in string.
Not like a tightly made in the hand laid in string.
Rod.
-
are horn nocks necessary as opposed to self nocks(no horn nocks)? why would one use side nocks?
No...