Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ZanderPommo on August 04, 2009, 11:11:38 pm

Title: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 04, 2009, 11:11:38 pm
well i haven't posted a bow in quite awhile so here goes
i decided to play around with the holmgard design just to try something new, so im taking it easy on the specs

currently a tad over 64 '' ntn
going for 43# at #28 in
9 in tips 1/2 in wide
limbs are just over 1 1/2 in width and there is a 8in non bending handle
the tip underlays are bubinga and the handle is cocobolo--made from a redoak board
it is backed with cotton up to the base of the tips just b/c im nervous about so much bending in one place
(this was a board 2 days ago

so far its going great! only thing that concerns me is that its not even to full brace yet its got just under an inch of set after unbracing!!! (kiln dried board + 5 months in my room)??????????

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310642.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310642.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310646.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310649.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310650.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310651.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310652.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310652.jpg)

as always love this site-can't wait for advice (btw i know the tillers off this is just where i stopped today)
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 04, 2009, 11:13:22 pm
well off to the rifle range tomorrow so might no make any more progress till friday

oh and heres another pic of the handle

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310643.jpg)

Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: adb on August 04, 2009, 11:50:56 pm
If I was working on that bow, I would round off all those very square corners, before I lifted a splinter. From square and harsh, to round and smooth... that's my goal.
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: sailordad on August 04, 2009, 11:56:50 pm
If I was working on that bow, I would round off all those very square corners, before I lifted a splinter. From square and harsh, to round and smooth... that's my goal.

im with ya on that,i dont even brace a bow on a long string untill it is round and smooth
not to mention that if you round everything right away,it wont mess with the tiller later
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: adb on August 05, 2009, 12:02:27 am
No, I wouldn't even brace a bow like that either.
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: radius on August 05, 2009, 12:29:51 am
also, round and  smooth won't catch or cut the string...

dude, find adb's holmegaard build along and read it carefully 500 times...that's the thing to do...

i love holmie's....best of luck...ur cotton backing kinda looks like a coat of beeswax!
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 05, 2009, 12:58:16 am
yeah the cotton is coated with tb3 so its dark

im going to round everything up on friday before i progress any further, i just usually rush it to brace first(i know i know) ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: radius on August 05, 2009, 01:02:23 am
that handle is UBER long, too...

google "dennis lavarenne holmegaard" and you will find a paper called Tillering the Holmegaard Bow.
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 05, 2009, 01:20:47 am
handle is 4 in for a grip and 1.5 in fades i don't see how i could have gone shorter?
so i suppose about 7 in

is the tiller bad?
i mean for the design?
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 05, 2009, 10:12:29 am
another pic i forgot to add

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P8310654.jpg)

Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: DanaM on August 05, 2009, 10:24:16 am
Stay off the fades and get it bending more in the outer limb, every inch of the working
limb has to do its share of work on a holmie. Take your time and have patience.
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 05, 2009, 10:28:27 am
thanks Dana

ill do that

is it just me or is it kind of hingy at the right fade in the last pic?????
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: DanaM on August 05, 2009, 10:40:50 am
The bottom limb does appear to be bending right at the fade but pictures don't always tell the truth, if you get the fades
bending to much too soon you will have lots of string follow, so if in doubt stay off that area
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 05, 2009, 10:56:49 am
well that does make sense, ive already got almost an inch of follow just after unbracing
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: adb on August 05, 2009, 12:38:04 pm
You're rushin' it! Slow down. Proceed with thoughtful purpose.
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: radius on August 05, 2009, 10:58:50 pm
doing good, man.  you see the flat spot in the lower limb, take care of that first thing...
my bad on the handle btw, i d k what i was thinking...like that wood...now "proceed with thoughtful purpose" and git er done!
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 06, 2009, 11:47:11 pm
thanks radius

yeah the tillers a bit off cause i took it off the sander and strung it only after judging the thickness by eye, so i think im getting better ;D
im really having fun with this one
tomorrow imma round the back, refine the tiller, and get her to full brace(minimum)
im thinking of names, anybody got any ideas? my mom came up with cocobinga.(kinda has a ring :D)
get it? cocobolo & bubinga?????.............yeah, you fellas are bright, you got it
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 23, 2009, 12:33:35 am
okay well sorry for the delay folks, school and cross country have officially eaten all my spare time
got it tillered out today to 28 in and unfortunately it came in really really light, at 32#, itll make a great target bow though!
im gonna do the handle tomorrow and ill also be posting pics tomorrow
might also chrono it tomorrow iffin it aint raining
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: Little John on August 23, 2009, 12:27:25 pm
Looks like you have way too much weight in the outer limbtips especially for the weight it came in at. Make them scary narrow and reduce the thickness till they just barler try to bend. That is how to keep the tips ultra light and also get the lever effect of the holmie. Use a short straight edge to check the tips for slight bending at full draw. The overall tiller looks pretty good.     Kenneth
Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 23, 2009, 02:33:56 pm
thanks littlejohn

Title: Re: holmgard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 24, 2009, 09:08:29 pm
well it sure ain't done but heres the progress.
sorry i couldn't post these yesterday.
im pretty happy with the tiller.
yeah imma pike it and heat temper it after i reduce the tips alot. i was thinking a half inch off each end??? also gonna heat temper it cause Manny said it works and thats all the convincing i need!

okay here we go (lots of pics!!!)  (oh and sorry about the dust i never give it a chance to settle)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180664.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180668.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180669.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180672.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180673.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180675.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180676.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180678.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180680.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180686.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180687.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180689.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180690.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180691.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180692.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180695.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180698.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/ZanderPommo/P9180699.jpg)
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: adb on August 25, 2009, 12:25:08 am
Yikes! You've got your arrow rest cut past center. I sure hope it holds up!
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 25, 2009, 10:25:43 am
it seems to be doing fine so far, shot it in yesterday.
the pic is decieving its less than 1mm past center
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: WillAdams on August 25, 2009, 11:14:05 pm
Is there a system or formula for determining how deep an arrow shelf Can be cut for a given handle width, thickness, draw weight and shape?

William
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 25, 2009, 11:52:09 pm
not that i know of, generally for a longbow its half or less and most recurves are totally center-shot
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 30, 2009, 10:56:44 pm
well im less sick, and got some work done
ive piked the bow 3/4 of an in on each limb so 1 1/2 in. total
got some cool lookin nocks cut in, and with the piking done it went from 32# to 35# or 36#
ive just heat treated the belly and will unclamp it tomorrow(?????)
the belly looks a nice toasty light brown and the backing seems to be holding up fine, although i lined the back of the bow and tip/handle glue joints, which i think kept a significant amount of heat off the glue
i induced just under 3 1/2 of reflex, i hope it holds about 2''
ill check the tiller probably next weekend but ill hopefully post pics of the tips and heat tempering before then-tillering next weekend as to let the bow rehydrate, and also because sunday is my next small amount of free time
again thanks for all your help/suggestions folks! wouldn't be at this level without all of you to back me up
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: knightd on August 30, 2009, 11:00:40 pm
Looking good so far.. ;)
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 31, 2009, 12:44:10 am
thanks David
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: Parnell on August 31, 2009, 10:35:58 am
Looks real good.  A nice even tiller.  I'm wondering about that cut out, though.  Are you finding that the fletching is hitting the bow with the curve sweeping in that direction?  I like the look of the backing.  Nice job.
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on August 31, 2009, 07:10:56 pm
im sorry i dont quite understand the question, what cut? the arrow shelf?
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on September 10, 2009, 12:13:20 am
well sorry
it broke--developed chrysals.........major dissapointment
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: Dustybaer on September 10, 2009, 01:52:10 pm
man, that's a pity.  i really liked it.
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: radius on September 10, 2009, 02:47:04 pm
dude,my guess is you dropped your cell phone alot
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on September 10, 2009, 10:29:27 pm
it is my belief that once the weight was upped to about 45 lbs which is what it felt like, the design was a bit too narrow to handle that much stress.
i advise anyone trying to build one similar to this one make it 2 to 2 1/4 in wide limbs, i think if i had my bow would have survived

if i get a chance within the next couple weeks ill still try to post some pics
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: Parnell on September 10, 2009, 10:47:49 pm
Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you earlier.  I had wondered about the cut out - in picture it appears like a convex sweep.  I haven't really done many with a cut out, but I've made a couple with a concave sweep going down to the shelf.  Was wondering if you found it made any difference with the arrow passing through. 

Sorry about the break.  Bummer.
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on September 10, 2009, 11:14:40 pm
well, since the angle of the pic was so low, it looks to be more severely concave than it really was, which was very slight

no negative flight characteristics that i could notice, but a very concave shelf may obstruct your sight very slightly while shooting??
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: MaceG on September 10, 2009, 11:32:08 pm
So the limb failed, not the handle?
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: radius on September 10, 2009, 11:45:40 pm
it is my belief that once the weight was upped to about 45 lbs which is what it felt like, the design was a bit too narrow to handle that much stress.
i advise anyone trying to build one similar to this one make it 2 to 2 1/4 in wide limbs, i think if i had my bow would have survived

if i get a chance within the next couple weeks ill still try to post some pics

with 2" wide limbs only 14 or so " long, i just built a holmegaard pulling about 55# @ 28"
Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: JustAim on September 11, 2009, 12:18:42 am
l know this post is off the subject but judging by your pictures, you need to call T.A.P.S. because it appears to me your house is haunted!!! If you look closely you can see faces in some of those orbs ;D




 

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Title: Re: holmgaard tiller along
Post by: ZanderPommo on September 13, 2009, 08:55:43 pm
 :o..... ::)
who ya gonna call!......

radius, yeah i think 2 '' wide is a better design, and i believe tim baker recomends a 1-7/8 width for an eliptical style tillered bow, which would suggest that a 2'' or perhaps even 2-1/4 in wide design to help handle the stress and give a bit more peace of mind