Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: youngbowyer33 on August 28, 2009, 11:16:15 am
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hello, i am twelve and have started making bows.i am currently working on a red oak board bow, but i am worried about starting tillering because i have invested alot of time into the bow already. i am using a guide by sam harper to do it and i am using drywall tape for a backing. anyway, i would like to learn some tips and ideas on how to tilller and some useful tools for it,i have a rasp but it is extremely dull and takes of no wood, so i have used a plane to take off all the wood so far.So yeah any help would be greatly appreciated and i can post some pics if you would like to see it
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YoungBowyer, I am going to move this post to "Bows" so you will get more answers to your questions and a better chance with help. Pictures will help though. Pat
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thanks i wasent sure where i sould put it but i will try to post some pics
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Don't worry about ruining bows that's how you learn. I've only been trying for a few months and I can tell you that I have made more firewood than shooters. But I have learned something from each one.
If you are going to use a plane set it to where you are taking off very little for tillering. It is very easy to take off too much. You can't put the wood back on.
Keep a positive attitude it will go a long way. If this bow doesn't work out start another.
Good luck.
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Hi youngbowyer and welcome.
Ask around and see if you can get your hands on a cabinet scraper. It's basically a rectangular piece of steel that you scrape small shavings off your bow's limbs with. They are relatively inexpensive to purchase, also. Take your time and understand that it will take some breaks to learn the process. Be patient and 'in it for the long haul' and you'll succeed. :)
Are you able to take and post pictures of what you're working with? That would help things out, greatly. See if you can. You'll find the people on this web-site happy to help you. I'll keep an eye out for your posts.
Parnell
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i will post pics when i can because right now i am having trouble finding my camera.im sure i will get it soon though
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That was the first bow that I started with - using the same website. It was good for initial learning. Check out this one, too, it's more complete: http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Try to build a pulley system for tillering. It will help you a lot and it's safer. Start removing wood at the handle and work your way toward the tips. For the red oak design on that site, remember, you want the last six inches of limb not moving. Most movement should be mid-limb. Take you time and keep it even. Remember to exercise the limbs frequently, after removing small amounts of wood with a scraper, string the bow and flex it 20-30 times only to the draw length that you've built up to. Don't rush the process.
You have all the time in the world. Enjoy the process.
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Also, what city and state do you live in? A really nice thing would be if you had someone more experienced near you that you could hook up with.
My advice would be to invest in a good rasp. These are great to take off small ammounts of wood in small areas. Then, as was also said above, a good scraper, such as cabinet scraper or pocket knife. The guys on here all love to help so you've come to the right place.
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i live in ottawa ontario, and i did meet a bowyer in barrie named jim something. he gave me some turkey feather and a few arrow shafts.and what type of rasp are we talking about?the long ones like a surform or more like a rasp file?could u show me a picture so i know?my birtday is comming up and i would like to ask for some tools
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A cheap rasp is one of the 4in1 rasps available at any hardware store, thats what I started with and they work ok.
You also need a scraper I used to use a old butcher knife. But your most important tool is going to be patience,
take your time and don't be disappointed if your first bow isn't what you envisioned. Heck my first bow came in at about 8 lbs
and I was tickled pink with it :)
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Like Dana said, the 4-in-1 isn't bad. I prefer the full size personally. These files are about 10" long or so, about an inch or 3/4" wide. There are of course diferent types for taking off different ammounts of wood. I prefer a course for rapid removal, and a finer grain for lighter removal and smoothing. I'll see if I can get a pic, but any hardware or home improvement store will have them. I would say that my file is one of my most important tools for bow making.
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but do they actually take off much wood?are they gonna remove it fast enough?
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patience, patience, patience, working slow is your best tool, next to the scraper.
Also, don't be afraid to ruin a bow, that is how you learn. i thought the same way you did when i started making bows, i worried so much about doing something the right way that nothing ever got done, at least if you are trying and ruining bows you are doing something.
the old saying says... If you ain't breakin' 'em you ain't makin' 'em.
just dive right in, besides, red oak boards are cheap.
good luck, Dan.
PS i didn't get a shootable bow until my 5th or 6th try... They all broke, and after several dozen bows now, i just had one break on me last week when i started to tiller it.
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fast wood removal is the worst enemy of bow building.
GO SLOW, that's why the scraper is ideal for tillering.
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the only thing is my bow is still pretty thick, and i am aiming for 25# at 25", so i dont know how thin i need it and i dont know if my tiller so far is evenand i basically am worried that there will be a big hinge that might break as soon as i put it on my tillering stick(homemade last night)
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I recommend you not use a tiller stick. Holding the bow statically at any draw length can be detrimental to the bow plus tiller sticks can be dangerous to use. A tiller tree and a long string will allow you to bend the bow slightly so you can see the bend from a distance. This will give you an overall picture of both limbs bending for comparison.
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Yeah, you don't want to remove a lot of wood real fast. You just need to work on getting your limbs even, and slightly starting to bend so that you can see where you need to remove the wood first, and then once you see where it needs to come off, then you can worry about what to use and as you can see, there are a few options for that. I like a file because you can work one small spot with it at a time, and it only takes off as much wood as you want it to, depending on how hard you press while you work it and how long you work it.
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alright i think i am ready so should i start tillering now or what?
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Post the dimensions of the board and the shape of the bow you want, english style longbow, pyramid tapered flat bow, etc. It will give people a way to comment on the tillering, because the style of bow has alot to do with tillering. And pictures if you can so others can adivse.
Roughly: Pyramid flat bow is tillered basically by narrowing the limbs rather than thinning. English longbow is tillered by thinning/rounding the belly.
Here is another site I really like: http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html (maybe you've already got it) with board and ELB buildalong (oops you already got that)
Try here for more guidance... http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/
Go slow, get the 4-1 rasp, and I use the short handle Red Devil 2" paint scrapers because you can hold them in one hand and they're easy to sharpen and cheap blades, an you can use the wide blades in the small handles.
And I'm older and have destroyed alot of wood and still don't have anything I'm willing to post pics of here yet. Go slow and keep at it... and take a break frequently and thing about making arrows too...
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ive made a few arrows from small ash branches,but they are really bad.ive also put the feathers on a few arrow shafts that someone gave me, and im going for a elb without a bending handle, and im following the guide from the website you mentioned
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You need a tillering gizmo, the handiest too there is for the beginning bow maker. It tells you right where to remove wood during the tillering process so you won't end up with hinges in your limbs. PM me your address and I will send you one for free, complete with instructions.
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You will be fine! Take your time
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What everyone has said. I use a paint scrapper alot for my finale tillering.
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i think i will do some more with my plan and then switch to a small knife or file rasp
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plane*
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You should take Eric up on his offer. His "gizmo" is a very handy tool that will help keep you from getting hinges in the limbs and help you get a good even bend.
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i pm him, but how does it work?
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If you can find a farrier's rasp, that is a great tool for taking off enough wood to see and feel that you are getting something done, but not so much that you're likely to ruin the bow with one false move. Down here, they run from 15 to 30 dollars. There is a very coarse, aggressive texture on one side, and a less aggressive pattern on the reverse. You would still need a finer rasp or a scraper to finish with though.
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Heya Youngbowyer,
Not sure if it's been addressed yet...what does the wood grain look like on the back of your bow? Have you learned of the different cuts of wood? You want to choose wood that has straight lines runnin parallel with the board. If yours doesn't now, don't worry about it and keep moving forward. Let us know, though. :)
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i am having trouble posting my pictures because they are too big,anyone know how i can make their size smaller(in terms of MB and KB)
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YB, you can either change the resolution setting in your camera to the lowest setting(usually will result in pics 640x480, fine for PA) or use Photobucket(free) and set all pics on there for 640x480.
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thx i think this is it. i need help with my tiller i dont want to mess this up
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So far so good. Just keep removing wood evenly along each limb, exercise the wood between wood removals and checking the tiller. Don't get your fades too thin. Lots of leverage there and if they bend to close to the handle it may pop off. That said, work so your bend in each limb is relatively even and that both tips are moving about the same distance.
Eric's "gizmo" is basically a short piece of wood(about 4" or so) with a hole in the center for a pencil. With the pencil point barely through the gizmo you slide the gizmo along the bent limb. The pencil point will mark places that are not bending and will leave the bending parts unmarked. Very simple but also very effective.
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Heres the link to Eric's ''gizmo''. http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000075 (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000075)
Your bow looks good so far. Just remember, only remove wood where the limbs are not bending and dont touch areas that are bending to much....also called a ''Hinge''. One more thing, l see your using a tillering stick and screws to hold your string in place. Be careful when using it because if your bow cuts loose on ya you'll get a nasty bump on your head. l used to use a tillering stick until one day l had a bow explode on me when l was moving the string to a lower peg and ended up smashing my face into a peg....needless to say it didnt feel very good ;D Just be careful and go slow.
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thanks for the advice guys.i still have a lot of wood to remove because i want a 25# bow, and right now at 12" it is about 15lbs, and it only starts to bend at 9 or 10 inches,but i will stick with my pair of scissors to remove wood like a scraper
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On your first bow you should concentrate on tiller and don't worry about the draw weight...although 25# should be easy to achieve.. Once you get the tiller worked out(might take a few bows) you can concentrate on building the bow you want.
Building wood bows is a very slow process. If you try to rush it you WILL screw up. I know from experience(25 years worth). Concentrate on removing wood to get the limbs to bend evenly and together. If you find yourself wanting to rush or getting frustrated put it down and walk away. You need to be in a good frame of mind and with a positive attitude. Anything else will lead to failure and frustration.
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My site may help. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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thanks for the site and the tillering is coming along VERY SLOWLY, but i hear that it is good to take my time