Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: banoch on October 12, 2009, 11:53:33 pm

Title: blade material choice
Post by: banoch on October 12, 2009, 11:53:33 pm
If you were going to make a knife blade for a knife that you actually were going to use is there one type of stone that stands head and shoulders above all others. Sharpest, strongest, most durable. What is the best way to join it to the handle?  I appreciate your help.        banoch
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: sailordad on October 13, 2009, 12:04:16 am
personaly i like what ever i can get my hands on,as i live in an area that doesnt have much for knappible material
obsidion gets harper than stone,but stone is more durable than obsidion,bot hhave pros and cons
as far as hafting to a handle
do you want to keep it primitive or dont realy care?
if your going for primitive,then pine pitch and sinew
or if ya dont care,then two part epoxy works great
i have done them both ways,the yeach have pros and cons
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: knightd on October 13, 2009, 12:33:43 am
My vote is Ryolite!!
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Pat B on October 13, 2009, 12:57:36 am
I'd say rhyolite also. Very tough stone and can be made very sharp.
  A stone knife is made for cutting or sticking and NOT for prying. No knife is made for prying but you can get away with a little with a metal blade...NOT WITH STONE!
An obsidian blade is the sharpest but it is brittle so not as durable. The design of the blade will matter also.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: cowboy on October 13, 2009, 09:19:01 am
Some of that Pederanales stuff can be purty darn tough, but have to agree with the Rhyolite thing - I just don't have it around here. I slot my handle to accept the stone, wrap it in sinew, then cover with tbIII to waterproof.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: mullet on October 13, 2009, 10:33:57 am
  If you want a sharp, durable knife and want to punish yourself,  try raw Coral.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: banoch on October 13, 2009, 10:42:45 am
What about chert or flint? Does anyone have any ryolite big enough for an 8"blade they are willing to part with? Thanks for the suggestions. If made thicker would obsidian be a GOOD choice?
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: leapingbare on October 13, 2009, 10:45:55 am
I'd say rhyolite too, but most flints and cherts make good uns too.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Hillbilly on October 13, 2009, 10:49:54 am
A lot of stone makes good knives, especially raw stuff, but my top three choices for a user would be rhyolite, rhyolite, and rhyolite.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: leapingbare on October 13, 2009, 11:03:51 am
Come on now, I'm an ex N.C boy myself, i know all about Riolite and yes its very durable, but if you have not knapped it before your in for a rude awakening its tough stone and tough to knap. But Riolite like most other lithic meterail can be found in different grades and some riolite is more like a mid-grade chert and some is like granite.. There is nothing wrong with a flint or chert blade they can be just as sharp and functional.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Hardawaypoints on October 13, 2009, 11:09:53 am
I like the Pedernales, it can be tough. But I'll vote on the Rhyolite side for durability and sharpness.  Once you get a good edge on Rhyolite, it's gonna be there a while.

Like any rock, quality varies.  Some is primo, while some is awful.

Jim
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: aaron on October 13, 2009, 09:03:55 pm
for obsidian, I'd go for one of the tougher obsidian varities such as Glass Buttes Dacite (a.k.a. "g'dacite). It is not as breakable as regular obsidian, not by a long shot! In fact it's so danged hard to work, I usually don't mess with it unless i'm making something I am going to use. Now, there are a number of different "dacites" out there- most are an opaque grey obsidian. Some, like "riley Dacite" (this is all from oregon) are alot like regular obsidian (i.e. glass-like). G'dacite is much different- it's also opaque grey, with a dull luster (or lack of luster). This would not have to be thicker than a flint blade. I may have a chunk I'd trade for some of your local stone....
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: mullet on October 13, 2009, 09:45:52 pm
 I'm a real fan of Dacite. Easy to work, sharp as obsidian, and tough.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: FlintWalker on October 13, 2009, 10:38:30 pm
I've only worked a couple pieces of it, but I think Knife River flint would be a heck of a choice for a functional knife blade.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: stickbender on October 14, 2009, 12:09:39 am

     Do like the native people did, go with what you have, or trade for better stuff. ;)  You won't find anything sharper than obsidian, but you have to treat it like glass.  Uh......because it essentially is.  Make it a little thicker, and shorter.  Any stone blade is going to be somewhat fragile, compared to a steel one.  Even Rhyolite.  Though it is tough stuff as every one here seems to assert, it is not steel.  Like they said, stone knives were not for throwing, stabbing, (except in emergencies) or prying with.  It was a cutting instrument.  You have a lot of material choices.  Experiment with different types of stone, and see which one suits your particular needs, and holds up to your type of usage. ;)  I wouldn't know.  I never made a knife.  I am ecstatic when I make an arrow head, that is not a bird point, or granules for the debbage pile. ;D

                                                                                      Wayne

                                                         

                                                       
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: banoch on October 14, 2009, 12:18:30 am
The problem is that being new to all of this I have absolutly nothing of interest to trade except for a little $.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: leapingbare on October 14, 2009, 12:21:07 am
I think stone knifes were carried for self defense as a last resort.. it would be much more practical to use blades and flacks for cutting and carving.. sure you can gut a deer with a well made stone knife.. but its much easier to do it with a flack off a blade core.  just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Jaeger on October 14, 2009, 06:35:54 am
a flake is as sharp as it ever will get to retouch it just dulls it ,or so it sayes in waldorfs book.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: sailordad on October 14, 2009, 07:09:53 pm
ive got scars on two of my fingerprint pads from flakes
damn near cut both of them right of the finger
happened in less than a blink of an eye too

they cut soo clean ya can bleed for two days before it quits,then ya bump it and it starts all over again with the bleeding
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: mullet on October 14, 2009, 09:35:54 pm
 Brian Melton knocked off a flake of that Florida Chert, Hillbilly once called concrete. And then commenced to skinning a boar hog with no trouble at all. Anybody that has experiance skinning a wild hog knows how you have to keep resharpening your knife.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Bill Skinner on October 14, 2009, 09:53:09 pm
Pedernales or flint.   I agree with Leapingbear, they carried a stone knife in case they needed to cut something.  If they expected to cut something, they carried flakes or spalls or something they could get flakes from.  Bill
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: banoch on October 15, 2009, 12:30:31 am
OK, I found some rhyolite but the guy says that it is "mid grade" What does this mean other than it is not high or low grade? He is asking $2 lb.
Title: Re: blade material choice
Post by: Hillbilly on October 15, 2009, 11:31:05 am
Banoch, where is the rhyolite from? In NC, it ranges from a very good grade comparable in knappability to raw chert to a grainy, granite-like rock that's almost unknappable. The best stuff is green or gray.