Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: kayakfisher on November 08, 2009, 03:22:02 pm
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Being the last weekend of the first half of bow season here in Missouri, and with the temperatures in the fifty's at night and seventies during the day time. The Primitive kid ,myself ,the wife and my daughter decided to spend the weekend in the woods thats quality family time Missouri style. Myself I had a great shot on a nice little buck of about forty yards, [anybody no how to cook tree]. The Primitive Kid and his bow Osage Rose had a nice shot on a six pointer and he also got into a flock of Turkeys. Evenmore he made his first kill on a fat cottontail we gave thanks to the great Creator and offered up a pinch of tobacco. We then roasted it over hardwood coals and it made a fine meal that night. He is ten foot tall and walking on clouds ,I have taught my kids ,do not kill unless it is to be used for food ,and the many other things that can be gleaned from wild game.Then we found this and it ruined our weakend , several Deer,amongst other animals that had been killed and left to rot .One they cut his head off, the rest, Skunks and other critters they killed and dragged them into a fifteen yard circle and left >:( I really get tired of hunting Conservation land, with low lifes that need to have open season on them , Next weekend it will be rifle season and ten times worse.
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Sorry to hear that Your Weekend Hunt was Ruined this way.....Trophy Hunters are bad enough in My Book....but a Poaching Trophy Hunter is a Low Life Scum Sucker...and needs to be caught and turned in...before the Wrong Person Catches Them....and Strings Them Up........makes Me sick to see the Waste that goes on...just pathetic! When I am done with a Whitetail Carcass....even the Buzzards are pissed....there ain't anything left but Ribs and Backbone...all the Rest is used..man I better quit before I say stuff that I will regret....... >:(
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Well, I know of a spot on a local game lands (state hunting land) here in PA where the game commision dumps all the road kills they scrape off the hi-way in a big pile. So before you get to upset over things you might check with your local game officer.
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Most Deer that is killed here on the highway ,and a conservation or highway patrol officer is called. There is a waiting list of peaple and families that are called to recieve the deer. I had a accident years ago and they took the deer that collided with my truck. I have been hunting out there for three years and conservation doesnt dump animals they go to an incenerater here.
Dennis
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Looks to me from the Photo's that they tried to cover up the Deer carcass with Branches to hide it....don't look like a Roadkill Dump in that Picture at least...but like Ryan said....might be worth the Call....
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Well it's said to see this crap happens everywhere. We have alot of it go on during rifle season. They leave them laying along the roads and in piles. I have seen a herd laying in a field with backstraps and antlers being the only thing gone. People have no respect for anything or anyone.
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El Destructo , this is out at Compton Hollow on the back side on Conervation lane .I really doubt that it is a conservation dump site.
Dennis
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El Destructo , this is out at Compton Hollow on the back side on Conervation lane .I really doubt that it is a conservation dump site.
Dennis
Dennis.....I Didn't think it was....thats why I said that it didn't look like one to me........ looks like someone was covering up a Poaching Crime
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Oh I know you said in my sons post Osage rose that you use to walk the trails out there . You would be one to know rght wear I was Talking about no offense intended or directed . I serousily doubt the conservation would ever dump carcasses out there to many tree huggers use the area I agree with you its poachers.
Dennis
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Found a similar site about ten years ago down at Cedar Creek. Five deer scattered around a hillside all gun shot only one was a buck they took the horns. That was early in early bow season. I guess it doesn't have to be in season for poachers though. They caught those guys. And I never followed up on what the punishment was. Not enough I'm sure. It was a disgusting site, it just hurts to look at. As hard as we work at our passion and they drive out on four wheelers and spotlights and just slaughter them. Better days ahead,we hope-Ron
ps maybe that was some of the same bunch.
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I like to think karma will win in the end, it's the only peace I can find with this type of waste. Generally, I think what goes around comes around. Maybe they'll come back as a dung beatle.
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My son and I were fishing under a bridge one day and a carcas came bailing over the rail with the head and hams cut off I made a quick call to the D.N.R. and they caught the jackass it was my wifes cousin there has been a fued over that ever since. ;D
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I hate seeing stuff like this but it's everywhere. It seems many people have forgotten the old ways and became monsters of the woods. It is such a disgrace and disappointment that this is the direction that being an "outdoorsman" is taking. Cause you know this is what they are teaching their kids. It's really sad. :-[
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We have big problems with elk poachers here in Northern Arizona. It doesn't help that people come here and set up with signs that say "I buy elk antlers---cash paid". Why? Well, evidently elk antler is a big thing in Asian folk medicine. Hey, whatever floats your boat, but do it legally! It's disgusting to see hundreds of pounds of prime meat and broth bones go to waste so some jerk can take the antlers and make a few bucks. They caught one ring of elk poachers here last year. A ring of them!!! All after antlers. And the whole ring was set up with fences to transfer the stuff---just like a ring of thieves. Of course, that's what they are.
Then we had some clowns a few years back that shot and killed some burros. Why? Why do people get kicks out of killing like that? Kinda scares you.
And even when people go into the woods looking for naturally-shed elk antlers, these guys physically fight over those! Geez, people, come on!
Every year, elk carcasses are found here with just the antlers gone. It's illegal in this state to knowingly let any edible portion of a game animal go to waste. But so much emphasis is placed here on "THE RACK" that the meat isn't job one. Lots of it goes bad. I've seen elk camps where there was several meals worth of meat left behind. It looked like the butchering was done by a bush hog. Rope left up in the tree with legs attached. Yeah, gotta get the head to the taxidermist ASAP! The meat can wait. Geez, get a life... ::)
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Sounds like you are hunting with honor and integrity .. good on you brother.. There is no excuse for head hunters and poachers who kill for nothing more than antlers, they are killers not hunters.Nothing new, buffalo hunters did it for years until the herds were nearly wiped out for the hides. Rest assured that your honorable teachings and ethical hunting practices will ensure a future for our sport, and nature will eventually catch up with the evil doers. Hawk a/ho
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When I hear about things like this I get disgusted. I don't understand the disrespect for life. Kayakfisher you and your son our acting honorably by the way that you respect the game that you hunt. I feel guilty if I don't use every part that I can of the animal I harvest.
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Man, that cheeses me off. I can Understand this at all. The only comferting thought is that at least Nothing really goes to waste in nature, the buzzards and yotes got a good meal by no means is this reason enough to do this but at least i can comfort my self in reqongizing that these deer got eaten by somthing. I agree with the karma statment hopfully they get whats coming to them.
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I just got a Call from a Guy I work with.....His Son works for T. Boone Pickens here in the Panhandle... He told me that they have 37 Deer in the Meat Locker that They are looking for People to come and get the Meat....The Rich S@n of a &!tch had all of His Rich Buddies come up and Trophy Hunt on His Ranch....and Now they have all of these headless Deer that nobody wants.....Man this Crap just makes the hair on the Back of My Neck stand up...........knowing that They would Shoot and Waste these Animals just for a Mount....I love a Big Rack....but I ain't found one damned Good recipe for Antlers in my 51+ years of life...and I have no use in a Trophy Hunter....call Me what you will....but I shoot what I eat........I hate Duck....I don't Duck Hunt.....I don't have a craving for Dove....I don't Shoot Doves....I may be wrong ...but to Me this is Right.....I love Venison....Rabbit....Partridge....Quail and Turkey...and this is what My Wife and I just about sustain Ourselves on....very little Store Bought Meat ever comes into my House....well besides the Ribeye Steaks that is......... >:D
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You are 100% right, El D. Maybe if T. Bum Sickens knew what it was like to be out of work for over 7 months, he'd appreciate having ONE deer. Hasn't the worthless @#$%^&%$ heard of Hunters for the Hungry? Of course not; he's never had to go to the food bank. This infuriates me.
I have no use for a trophy hunter, either. I shoot food. I eat what I shoot.
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I am sure that The Rich Bugger just doesn't want to have to pay to have the Meat Processed before it is given to the Needy....In Texas ...You as a Hunter have to Pay out of Your Pocket for the Processing of a Carcass that is being Donated to Charity....
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Ya it is sad there is alot of peaple that could use the meat right now ,the only thing that separates from the rich is we have morals and ethics.
Dennis
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Ethics and morality do not wear pricetags.. yet in the hunting community it seems the more money involved , the less ethics and moral character. I say if you can't hunt with honor and integrity .. stay in the truck.. Hawk
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I personally know people that "extend" their hunting season, truck hunt etc. I won't call the law on them because they only take what they "need" and use just about everything. They only keep the antlers and hides because the hate throwing things out, they have a pile of them in the corner. When they hear about trophy hunters I can see real disgust on their faces, usually followed by a few choice words I won't repeat here. The fact of the matter is they are more ethical than many/most hunters that stick to the seasons. Out of principle I can't condone their practices, and they know that I will refuse to participate. I will let it slide simply because even though they do enjoy taking an animal out of season, it really is driven by necessity, it's how they feed themselves. Not saying it is okay, but more along the lines that even hunters that bend the rules considerably would love to plant their boot in the backside of someone that cuts off a head and then leaves the carcass. Believe me they would if they caught someone doing it. No excuse for it. Me I keep my nose clean and if I see that sort of thing I call the law.
Swamp
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I wouldn't and couldn't shoot a Deer expressly for His Antlers....no way!.....but I have gone as far as to use a good Tag on a fresh Roadkill...that I watched happen....instead of leaving it there to be hit again and again...then just wasted....but if I would have had my Wife's truck instead of my Work Car...I would have just loaded it up and went Home with it...and not tagged it....thats the closest I have come to Poaching.....Now don't get me wrong...when I was living back in Da UP...eh.....and the Freezer was gettin kinda bare dere....I would load up da Wife...and go up to da Peshekee Grade (way out in da middle a nowheres)....and do some Hunting on Da Blacktop Ranch....wit a case of da Barley Pops....and da 8 track playing.....and before Ya knew it ya had a freezer full...but these were all tagged kills just not on legal property...fer dose dat don't know da Blacktop Ranch...is da County Roads...eh..... ;)
Hawk....I guarantee you that none of these went to waste...not when I was hunting for Me My Wife....and 6 of my 9 Brothers and Sister that were still at Home....after my Dad left Us behind.so these were like Welfare Food Stamps....only tastier...and easier to Swallow than State Aide........ :-[
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Hunting for food without a license is a whole different thing than killing for antlers.. I cannot judge other hunters, every man to his own.. But i personally will not poach.. unless it meant feeding my family..Hawk
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Hunting for food without a license is a whole different thing than killing for antlers.. I cannot judge other hunters, every man to his own.. But i personally will not poach.. unless it meant feeding my family..Hawk
Yes, that's the same way I feel, I tried to say that in my post. Hard times hit good people sometimes. I can't say I haven't done some things (mostly as a kid) that I would not do differently now, but there are lines I just have not crossed. I can look an animal in the eye and have the feeling that I have treated it fairly.
Swamp
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well said Swamp Bow!
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I have never poached an animal out of season, but when you look at those that do and they call it need for necessity or survival. They can some how afford a fifteen dollar box of say 30-30 rounds twenty or thirty dollars in the gas tank to go do it. A $5.99 super sized Mc donalds value meal on the way out ,and a $4 to $6 dollar six pack at the stop and rob to take along the way ,come on but then again if you were out in the wilderness like the hunters were that got snowed in and didnt know when you were getting out would be a different storie to me thirty or forty dollars will still buy a lot of hot dogs and ramen noodles.
Dennis
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I have never poached an animal out of season, but when you look at those that do and they call it need for necessity or survival. They can some how afford a fifteen dollar box of say 30-30 rounds twenty or thirty dollars in the gas tank to go do it. A $5.99 super sized Mc donalds value meal on the way out ,and a $4 to $6 dollar six pack at the stop and rob to take along the way ,come on but then again if you were out in the wilderness like the hunters were that got snowed in and didnt know when you were getting out would be a different storie to me thirty or forty dollars will still buy a lot of hot dogs and ramen noodles.
Dennis
I hear you Denis and I can only speak for the people I know. I can tell you that they don't spend $30-$40 to take down an animal, they might spend that $15 on a box of shells. That one box of shells will supplement their families for 3-6 months, can't do that with Ramen and dogs. Fact of the matter is 95% of what they bring home are hogs (which don't have a closed season on private land here). I used to think there was only black and white, I've learned that is not always true. I've also learned that I sometimes have to ignore the grey, even when it gets a bit darker than I would prefer. But you are correct, it's not right when it comes down to it. I won't kick a man when he is already down though, no honor in that either. I've had people not kick me before when they could have, maybe I'm just passing it on. Hopefully times will get better, in the meantime you, I, and others can lead by example. Peace.
Swamp
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Being unemployed, I don't condemn any person if they need to take an animal for food. It's the laws of men that say you can't. The laws of Nature don't. The laws of men are far, far from perfect and still a far piece from even right or fair in many cases. There is a huge difference between what is "legal" and what is right. For example, there are rich guys coming here from out-of-state hiring out some-odd thousand dollar guides and going after elk that a poor local resident here won't get drawn for and, therefore, has no chance at. The rich guy is after the head for the wall. The poor guy who won't get drawn needs the meat. But, really, the poor guy can't afford the elk tag in the first place, either. An elk tag here costs a resident $121. A poor guy could barely afford an archery deer tag at $34. Is that right? No, it isn't. When did hunting become a rich man's sport? Given that, if I knew of a guy whose family was barely making it and he got himself an animal off-the-clock and used every bit to feed his family, I'm playing Three Monkeys: See nothing, hear nothing, say nothing. I'll turn in a head-hunting poacher and thrill-killers without a second thought. But some guy who needs the meat? Why is that wrong when some rich CEO flies in from Florida only really wanting the head? Remember what Charles Dickens said about the law. I can't print it here.
Now, the flip side of the coin is you can hunt rabbits and jackrabbits here year round and no bag limit on jacks. That's a lot of meat you can garner. But, at the same time, I don't like this re-hash of the "King's Deer" sort of thing we have going on here with elk tags unaffordable to many residents. The truth is, the elk here aren't even native. The native elk were wiped out a hundred years ago. The elk here are impacting the natural order, eating aspen saplings and so forth. Some biologists here say we need to cull more elk. So, really, this isn't a scarcity issue. It's a funding/cashflow issue. If you take a public resource and only allocate it to people based on how much money they have, well, how is that fair and unbiased? We have a lottery system anyway, so it's not a question of more elk tags being generated if the prices were lowered. Game and fish will whine about needing the money since they're funded by license and tag revenues. Ok, then raise the price on out-of-state licenses and tags. If people want to fly in here and take elk, well, let them pay to do so. But things have come to a pretty pass when some shyster bank exec who doesn't live here can afford to hunt here when residents can't. I'm tired of hearing about the SAME out-of-state "Know who that guy is???" rich CEOs getting elk tags here time and again and using this area as their personal hunting preserve with the collusion of our lame state game-and-fish dept. when a poor or working resident can't even afford to put in for the tag he probably won't get anyway.
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Well, I'm from the "Trophy State"(Kansas). They're ALL trophy's to those who don't live here! I'm sick of what has happened to the state's herd. I've been hunting hard with my stick and stones this year and I've only seen two(2) mature bucks. All the private land is leased or outfitted out. You can't even take a kid out for rabbits or quail. It's all about the "Trophy Buck$$$"! The prices for a outfitted "hunt" START at $2000 to $3000, and guided START at $4000 to $5000, plus lic. and permits. There were 2 or 3 deer dumped by outfitters that had been caped out! Clients didn't want the meat! What a bunch of sick, greedy, money hungry, unethical, corrupt, sorry bunch!!! From the land owners clear thru to the clients! Hunting Used to be fun. Now, it's just an unregulated money grab and anything goes! Sorry for the rant-I'm done now! Craig
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Craig...it wasn't a Rant....I am the only one thats allowed to Rant!!! You have hit on a Deep Wound here....I live in a State with less than 3 percent that is Open to the Public...the rest is Leased....and I can really feel where you are coming from! My Home State used to be the Way Kansas is now....but between the Bad Winters....Poachers....Out of State Hunters...the Totally Worthless D.N.R...and the reintroduction of a Species that was never here....(so how they can call it reintroduction I don't know).The canadian Timber Wolf..There are very few Deer left in Upper Michigan....and it very seldom that You see a Doe...let alone a Doe with a yearling still with her....the Wolves Get them....I hope and Pray that States like Kansas...Iowa....Nebraska all wise up before they go the way of Michigan.....and it will happen I can almost guarantee it....All it took back Home was the Deer Herd being Stressed by Overhunting....then a Bad Winter and a large case of Pneumonia...then the Introduction of a Major Predator to Boot....and it has been a Downhill Slide for the Upper Michigan deer Herd now for over 10 Years....with no hope in the near future either....JMO...now I will quit Ranting.......... ;D
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Craig...it wasn't a Rant....I am the only one thats allowed to Rant!!! You have hit on a Deep Wound here....I live in a State with less than 3 percent that is Open to the Public...the rest is Leased....and I can really feel where you are coming from! My Home State used to be the Way Kansas is now....but between the Bad Winters....Poachers....Out of State Hunters...the Totally Worthless D.N.R...and the reintroduction of a Species that was never here....(so how they can call it reintroduction I don't know).The canadian Timber Wolf..There are very few Deer left in Upper Michigan....and it very seldom that You see a Doe...let alone a Doe with a yearling still with her....the Wolves Get them....I hope and Pray that States like Kansas...Iowa....Nebraska all wise up before they go the way of Michigan.....and it will happen I can almost guarantee it....All it took back Home was the Deer Herd being Stressed by Overhunting....then a Bad Winter and a large case of Pneumonia...then the Introduction of a Major Predator to Boot....and it has been a Downhill Slide for the Upper Michigan deer Herd now for over 10 Years....with no hope in the near future either....JMO...now I will quit Ranting.......... ;D
Its okay El Destructo I am waiving my hand in the air,you have my blessing to rant.We are men and this is the only place we can rant without getting whopped upside the head with a frying pan.
Dennis
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I really just don't like weekend warriors who hunt only for the horns. Up here in Alaska we have a wanton waste law. If you shoot oa moose here you have to harvest all the meat. If you don't you are fined and loose the horns.
We have a saying up here in rural Alaska, "You can't eat horns."
Lately the fish and game has been leaning towards horn hunting by requiring a 50 inch antler requirement. It's all about horns for the recreational hunters. Local people in rural Alaska do it for the meat.
I know wasted meat tick every one off, but keep in mind that at least some critters got to eat. In truth nature never allows waste, someone or something always puts it to use.
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I agree with allot that has been posted on this thread. In the since that nothing goes to waist as Josey Wales said in the movie even the buzzards have to eat.I know that sounds odd coming from me, since I started this thread but I feel there is a distinct difference between those that harvest illegally and those that kill for fun.I do feel it safe to say though, The man/woman that harvest out of need will leave know sign because of necessity. The trophy hunters are out for one thing though and thats the racks. Sad to say though these trophy hunters pay for the tags to ,to pursue the same game that we do.However must of thoughs that are the trophy hunters come from backgrounds that are well financed,there is a ranch not to far from springfield that is owned by a vary famous and rich person. He comes into town during are deer season has little houses built on four by four post with padded seats and sliding windows ,stocked with beer for him and his buddies. They hire a photographer to sit in these stands to take pictures of the bucks hitting the feeders in front of the stands.He looks at the pictures of the bigest buck, sits in that stand ,after he shoots the deer ,calls to the house they pick him up in the ranch jeep and they take him back to the house. They come back find his deer ,pick it up send it the taxidermy shop .After that they take him back to the airport he gets on his private jet and flies back home .The mount gets hung up on the wall back at the house.This same person had a ten foot dam built across the rive on his property then had his lawyers flown in to fight the legal battle. Its sad to say its the almighty dollar as in the case of the wolfs up in Hawks area he who has the gold will do as he pleases.
Dennis
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Dennis....you said a Mouthfull...You ought to try and live in the Same Area as T. Boone Pickens...if ya don't know the Name....Google it! He not only took all of the Open Land here in the Panhandle to Hunt away from Us in Court....He now has a Billion Dollar Ranch built on the Land that He stole...and has his Rich Friends come in and Stay at this 5 Star Ranch and Hunt Big Game (He has His own Wildlife Biologist on Staff) on His Ranch....They take the Racks...and then He advertises for People to come and pick up the Carcasses from His Meat Lockers on His ranch..as of Yesterday...they has 43 still in the Freezers trying to give them away....mostly all intact...some missing Backstraps and little else...I guess it could be worse...He could be just tossing them into a Pit and burying them......pisses Me off...what Money can get away with....... >:(
http://mesavistaranch.com/pdf/TBPbooklet3web.pdf
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I hear you EL D aleast he is giving out the carcassess to those that want them. I would bet the same guy that has the ranch up here ,hunts that ranch down there his main home is in Dallas.
Dennis
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If He's Rich or in Politics....I bet he has a Cottage reserved at the Ranch every Deer and Quail Season......
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Man, you see the picture of T. Boone Pickens and his wife on that brochure? She has one more facelift, her bellybutton will be on her chin! :o
These people are just sick. Too much of anything is a bad thing and too much money obviously is.
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I always thought it would be cool to be rich like that till I saw the morals and ethics those peaple have.
Dennis
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I always thought it would be cool to be rich like that till I saw the morals and ethics those people have.
Dennis
kayakfisher
You hit the nail on the head! Alot of people,the more money they have,the less morals they have!
Ernie