Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pappy on November 09, 2009, 07:05:19 am
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Jesse gave me a stave ,well what was left from a stave someone gave him at the classic,I have never worked with yew and was wondering how to proceed.Here are some pictures of the stave.It is 68 long ,I want some advice on what would be a good lay out for it. :)
Pappy
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Give it to me O:).
It's a tad short for an English longbow.
So the big question is what sort of bow do you want???
Shallow D section a tad wider than a longbow, slightly reflexed tips, no arrow shelf, sort of race tuned squashed English longbow would be cute
I'd work the sap wood down to about 3/16" following a ring, but don't worry too much and then see what the wood wants to do.
Del
(it's probably just poor colour rendition but it doesn't look much like Yew? That sort of hairy surface on the sap wood/underbark looks odd, maybe it's due to the tool used?)
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Pappy, I'd go 66" ntn 1 1/4" wide to mid limb then taper to 1/2" at the tips. Oval cross section with a ridged handle if possible. Then reflex it on one of your forms. Yew is easy to work compared to most hard woods....Just remember the limbs will look thick compared to a osage or hickory bows of the same draw weight, so don't get to carried away in the rough out process. ;)
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Pappy, Ryano's dimensions sound good for what you have. I like them a little wider then that at the fades but you are limited by what you have so you'll have to go for a little deeper thickness. With your years of working Osage it could be easy to be to aggressive on the wood removal, so rough out bigger then you would think necessary. Yew is much softer you'll be able to work it down to floor tiller very fast in comaprison to Osage.
Also don't forget to remove some of that sapwood. Shoot for 3/16"sapwood and don't panic about ring violations it will handle some as long as not to drastic. Sometimes a little stain will help you see the sapwood rings ;)
Go slow on exercising the limbs , to aggressive can be fatal.
Nice stave, can't wait to see what you can do with yew.
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i think what ryan said would be great...i am really happy for pappy...GO PAPPY GO...i wait to see what you get..john
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Pappy
I'm working on one right now as well. I'm going by the dimensions in TBB 1. It had a really thick sapwood layer (up to 3/4") in some places. I'm removing it to about 3/16" It has REALLY tight rings but I'm managing to follow one, I'm just going really slow with a chair scraper and knife. I'm still planning on backing it with rawhide. I'm looking foward to see what you make.
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after about 10 of em, i started just making rough drawings on the back of the stave with a sharpie and then attacking it full force with a #50 rasp...have a good time!
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Rick if you are going to back it with rawhide anyway I would worry to much about following a ring. As I said yew will tolerate some minor violation anyway. If doing a self bow then yes get as close as you can. ;)
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A lot of good advice Pappy ,what are yew going to do ? [Sorry couldnt resist] >:D I'm sure after seeing your bows in the Primitive Archer and the forum yew will do all right. It will be fun for you working a different type of wood. All mine were made out of Osage then I tried a different type of wood using the same dimensions and it came out a twenty pound bow.
Dennis
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I only made a couple of yew bows so take what I say with a grain of salt. I wouldn't touch the sapwood. It doesn;t appear to need thinning. I like Ryan's dimensions. I'd go for the flatbow design with a slightly rounded belly. Horn nocks and a rawhide back would look good. Jawge
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Looks to me like when you remove the bark and cambium, that the sapwood will only be 1/4", and that's fine in my books. Nothing wrong with making a rounded belly ELB style bendy handle bow with that length. I've made rawhide backed yew ELBs with horn nocks as short as 58".
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Thanks guys,I was thinking about what Jawgs and adb said on the sap wood and think I will go with Ryan's lay out ,just maybe a little wider. It is a very clean piece of wood so I will see
what I can come up with.Never use Yew but have heard a lot of good things about it,can't wait to give it a try. :)
Pappy
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If you can get more than 1 1/4" wide at the fades then by all means do it. I would also be inclined to leave the sapwood intact but that may depend on how much draw weight you want out of the bow
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Thanks Marc,I want low 50's @26 inch draw. :)
Pappy
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That's a decent piece of yew.
I'd leave the sapwood as-is. It's not too thick. I''ve used this design on yew (But it was 1.25" at the flares instead of 1.5") and it works well: http://analogperiphery.blogspot.com/2008/05/osage-flat-bow-dimensions.html
I'm one for a gradual width taper starting right at the flare-outs and tapering in straight lines to the nocks. With the gradual width taper dialed in, the bow is half-tillered before you start. It makes a good bow and it almost tillers itself.
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I'm working on one now myself, Pappy. I've reduced the sap rings down to 3/16 and it is 1 1/4" at the fades. I've violated rings but I am going to back it.
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Thanks Shamus,I like that design also.Mullet how dose yours feel as far a floor tiller
and what dimensions are you using,length/with and such.I have been warned not to go to thin to start with and get it to light. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, I'll measure it when I get home.
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Careful with the dust, it can make you pretty sick. Some people it doesn't seem to bother, but some get pretty ill. A dust mask is recommended.
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Careful with the dust, it can make you pretty sick. Some people it doesn't seem to bother, but some get pretty ill. A dust mask is recommended.
i found sometimes it did, sometimes not.
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Pappy, right now I'm 64" N to N. Starting at the fades it is 1 1/4" till the last 9" then I'm tapering it down to a point. It is bending now and the thickness is around 3/4". I do know from experiance, like cedar, when it quits bending, don't try to get a little more out of it. I have a few yew take-down projects in the future. ;)
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Thanks Eddie,I plan on starting on it this weekend,if I ant skinning deer. ;) ;D Thanks for the heads up Dano. My shop is outside so I usually don't have much of a dust problem but will keep that in mind. :)
Pappy
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Pappy,I started out making a 66 inch longbow on a yew stave that I had and the wood was so nice to work,those reddish curls just rolling of I ended up with a 45# bow at 26,thought I had plenty of wood it will likely look like its too thick when its time to quite.I shortened it down to 64 inches and got 52#but about 21/2 inches set in the bottom limb.
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Yew dust can slow or even stop the heart guys, so be carefull, not something to take lightly.
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Yew will not bend as far as osage. Make the working area of the limb long, ELB's work the entire length. Leave the tips a little bulkier than with osage, it is light but not as strong. Took me four spectacular explosions to learn these differences before I got a bow I liked from yew. Try to do most of the work with cutting tools like spokeshave and scraper. When you rasp or sand, make sure you are not breathing the dust - they use an extract for chemotherapy, very toxic stuff. As the Ferret said, "Osage dust makes me feel like I have a cold, yew dust makes me feel like I'm dying!"
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Well I finely got back around to working on this,I got it laid out,the sap wood reduced to a little
over a 1/4 .It is 1 3/8 at the fads to mid limb then to 1/2 at the tips to start with.It had some
propeller twist so I oiled it and got that out along with a couple of inches of reflex. I plan on reducing it a little more then cut nocks and start tillering it this weekend.See what you think
so far.It is still pretty stiff but I was told to start with it floor tillered stiffer than I would on and
Osage or Hickory. :)
Pappy
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Thats looking nice Pappy. ;)
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I was hopping you would chime in Keenan ,I need to know how close to floor tiller I should get it before I long string it,It is pretty stiff now,Gary told me to leave it heavy to start ,I just don't
know how heavy.It feels like 100 plus now. :) It's pretty clean wood except for that one ripple you can see in the picture,and the growth rings are really tight. :) I have violated some of the rings on the back but plan on rawhide backing it,should I do that before I start tillering ? Gary said I could do it later but this is different from anything I have worked on.I always do it first if I think it is going to need it. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, when you put a whole bow on a form like that, how do you go about heating it to keep its bend? I mean do you oil up both limbs and heat both limbs at a time or just concentrate on one area at a time adding clamps along the way?
Thanks,
Mark
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I saw now the first pictures ( that kind of yew I could just dreaming) and tought that stave schould gives two bows.
A self and a hickory backed one, but now is too late :(
Yew is fantastic U will love it shure. Take care of it is very poison! Dont breath it down whan sanding it!
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Pappy, Just take it to a floor tiller slightly heavier then your normal for the reason of the fact it's softer wood then your used to working. Softer = making mistakes faster. ::) I usually get to floor tiller and the back it when I feel comfortable with the profile being where I want it. Remembering that it's harder to heat treat after the backing is on, ;)
You can wait till closer to final tiller but I find it's easy to come in to light when I wait to long. As long as the string alignment is fairly good you can do minor adjustments in the handle later if you need to.
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Pappy, I've violated growth rings on the sapwood with no problems. I only backed it with thin deer rawhide, and I mean the thinnest I could find, to protect it from nicks and bangs. Yew tends to get beat up hunting with it. It is soft.
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I plan on using the belly skin of a deer hide to back it,do you heat treat it like most woods or just heat to correct limb problems ??? BigCountry I oil the whole bow and clamp it in the handle then heat and work my way down each limb one at a time putting in the reflex and correcting any problemsI know I have.I am not really heat treating the bow at this time,just using heat to correct any problems so it is easier to see the tiller. :)
Pappy
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Just low dense yew needs treat.
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Thanks.
Pappy
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I've only used steam to correct it. I worried too much about over drieing it like cedar to use the heat gun.
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Pappy, the belly skin is the stretchiest part of the hide. The strongest is down the back. Midway down the hide(from back to belly) would give you the best of both worlds. Also, hide stretched more across the hide than down it's length.
Your bow is coming along nicely.
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Thanks Pat,I will keep that in mind when I cut it out. :)
Pappy
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Maybe someone has already answered this somewhere else, but does it make a big difference if you use dry heat and oil or is it better to steam yew? I seem to remember someone having bad luck with dry heat and it causing the bow to eventually snap in another thread.
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This steam dry heat conversation maybe should become its own thread, so's not to divert from Pappys sweet bow. But...
I'm pretty sure that you lose a considerable amount of moisture when using steam also. The heat drives it out of the wood even though its in a moisture rich environment. It would be interesting to see a side by side dry heat vs steam comparison on the same wood, evaluating moisture content before and after.
Things are looking real good Pappy, I'm looking forward to this.
Gabe
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Sorry 'bout that must be my eh dee dee, yeah I can't wait to see the bow finished too.
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No problem,I talked to Gary Davis on straightening this one out and he told me he always uses dry heat with oil,he said he has used steam but and hour after he straightened it ,it was back like he started ,so I used oil and dry heat.so far it has held.Hope to get it on the long string Friday
evening. :)
Pappy
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Cool thanks for the info.
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Pappy,
I've Had the same "creep back" issues on the Yew I have had the opportunity to work using steam. a generous saturation period after treatment will prevent a possible blow up, at least for me (ain't broke one yet).
Just a thought...
R
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Thanks Roger,It's been a week since I heat straightened it. I plan on long string today. :)
Pappy
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Almost ready to brace. What do yall think.Right limb looks a little stiff ,but it dose have a big knot on that limb other than that it's pretty even. :)
Pappy
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Looking good, Pappy. Jawge
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Thats coming along real nice Pappy. I'd stay away from the fades for now and work the rest of the limbs. Looks ready for brace to me ;)
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Thanks,I probably won't be able to work on it any more till after Christmas,then I am at the cabin
for a week and plan on getting it shooting. :) :)
Pappy
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I'd get those tips comin' around a bit more if I was you ;D
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Yup, just a bit. :) Jawge
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Thanks,I will do that. :)
Pappy
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Pappy,
for what ever it's worth I particularly like the profile of your grip to fade curve....personnaly I like the "rounded grip" profile. I make a lot of my bows with stiff tips so your tiller looked real good to me, but I'm sure the guys know better. I think it looks real good.
The background in the pics....makes a guy want to pull up a chair, stare at the fire and kick-back....thats just this hillbilly's take on the scenery but don't see no stump to put yer bourbon glass on ; ;)
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I tend to make mine stiff tip also,guess it came from the earlier day when they all turned out whip
tillered. I also usually save the fads till last,also from earlier day when I would always get a hinge there. :) :)
Pappy
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I like those nocks too. Lookin' really fine! :) Jawge
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Pappy says to tell all got it tillered #50 @26 ready to heat treat tomorrow shot it today for the first time
shoots great pics on Monday
ps George wait till you see the nocks now
Ron
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Tips and shooting it in,shoots great,then after it came off the form.I will have more pictures after I get the finish work done. It is smooth and very light in your hand. :)
Pappy
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Back at it this weekend,been 2 weeks since I heated the belly,I plan on bracing it today and shoot it some,recheck the tiller and then get a very thin layer of deer rawhide on it. I am getting about ready to get this one finished .Hunting season has really got in the way of bow work. ;) ;D It did provide me with the rawhide tho, :)this will be the first bow I have backed with raw hide I made myself,we will see how that turns out. :) It looks pretty good,nice and thin. :) I plan on sanding the strips some before I put it on the bow,I also am going to use TB3 and rap it because of the character in the bow. :) Pictures Monday. :)
Pappy
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Pappy Dean Torge has an interesting article about using hide glue to apply rawhide. The part about being able to get bubbles out using a little heat, once the hide glue has jelled, really sounded good to me. I've used TB on fabric with great success, but the few hides I did it was the the dickens to keep them little bubbles out. Might be worth consideration. I expect it's on his web site somewhere, if you aren't already familiar with the process.
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Thanks David,I will give that some thought,wonder how long it would take it to dry completely before You can shoot it ? If it is like sinew and hide glue I really don't want to wait that long. :)
I would think it would be quicker but really don't have any idea.Anyone know ???
Pappy
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Thats looking really nice Pappy. Glad you got her shooting. Yew is very light in the hands but can pack a punch on the arrow, Why are you wanting to rawhide back it? Just extra safety or decoration?
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Pappy ...I know firsthand that on a Character Bow with lots of knots and High-Low Depressions...it's next to Impossible to just Innertube Wrap the Hide on...without getting Major Air Pockets in the finished Hide Job....I switched to Hide Glue....and also take my Wife's Cotton Balls that She uses for what ever Women use Cotton Balls for... >:D..and I place these wherever I can see that there may be a problem spot getting the Hide to dip into....I place the Balls over the Low Spot...then wrap the InnerTube over the Balls...this will push the Hide down into the Depression better....lessening the chance of an air bubble....Just a thought....good luck...and lets see it finished! I am still sitting on a Primo Yew Stave...had it now for 6 years...too scared to ruin it...... ;)
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Keenan I know I have violated the sap wood some,so just for insurance,some say it's OK and some say it's not,I just didn't want to take a chance ,what do you think ? That for the tip Mike,it really only has the one knot on it that I think would cause any problem with the rawhide,the rest of the bow is clean. I just wonder about using hide glue,I have always used tb3 before and seemed to have worked pretty good. :)
Pappy
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I have done it both ways Pappy...I have had no problems with Titebond....I use it on Silk....Linen....and Flax Backing...but I use Hide Glue on Snake and Rawhides...just seems to suck it down tighter to the Wood.... as the Hide shrinks...so does the Glue....JMO
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The Torges method mentioned earlier by David works. I did two such bows using this method with perfect results.
Goggle a search using "rawhide a bow".
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Well I got the rawhide on ,I used TB3 it turned out fine.That was all I had time for with the club meeting and wood cutting.It's should be dry and ready to shoot and fine tiller when ever I get the time in the next few days,seem all my bow projects are dragging out lately,to much other stuff getting in the way. :)
Pappy
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I finely got a chance to get back on this,hopefully get it finished in a few more weeks,I didn't like the way the rawhide looked on the back so I got a bull snake and put it on this weekend,turned out pretty good at least I like it better than the rawhide.I wanted to leave it plane on the back
to get that bright white that yew sap wood has but the rawhide had dark spots so I went with
the skins.See what you think. :)
Pappy
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That bow turned out great, Pappy. It's a beauty. I'm glad it worked out for you. :) Jawge
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That's a beautiful skin. Bow looks really nice.
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Looking awesome Pappy
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Thanks guys,I like the skin myself,first one I have done like that.Maybe get some sealer on it this weekend and shoot a little more,then finish up.Seems this has been a busy winter and can't stay on anything long enough to get finished. :) :)
Pappy
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Pappy, that looks great so far.